No even a sketchy profession can have great people in it. There are good therapists - but its because they have sense and care in the right way. For a lot of social worker types, they try to save people from a sense of inferiority about who they are. Unconsciously or not, the more needy people there are and the more needed they feel the more they like it. That's true in a lot of professions. If cancer was cured tomorrow there really would be doctors and undertakers bummed out because they would make less.
Now I have degrees but not in business. Yet I could see what was coming in economy. For over 10 years homes were getting more and more expensive. Little hovels in bad areas and with no land were selling for sky high prices. People were buying thinking homes always went up in value. On top of that people were getting suckered into big loans they couldn't afford. I could see a lot of people were caught up in a fantasy that even the "experts" weren't acknowledging.
There is a lot of that mutual false assurance in mental sciences. I see kids who are upset because of things at home. A teacher picks up on it and sends them to school counselors - who aren't good for too much. Then the kid gets bumped up to a psychologist who puts them through a few billing cycles before pronouncing the kid "borderline" or unresponsive".
Somewhere along the way the kid gets meds. If not from a psychiatrist (who is often the step "up" from the psychologist who passed them on) then from a doctor - who usually doesn't even monitor the kids during the activation phase or when coming off. Meds are tried willy nilly and if one doesn't work another drug gets thrown at the wall to see if it sticks.
The amazing thing is no "chemical imbalance" in depression etc has never been identified - and nobody is tested for one (as say with thyroid) but people are medicated anyway. Then you have radicals who say a soul doesn't exist and faith in one is "unscientific" - and then put their faith in treatment protocols that have none of the conclusive science they claim they go by. I've read the meta-surveys that say so.
Meanwhile, the kids problems might have started because of parents who are neglectful, abusive etc. The parents get off and the kid get treated as the problem when they are just the extension, victim etc of someone else's problem. Heck even schools make kids feel bad.
In the end, the kids ends up fixing themselves after going through the mental matrix. I've seen it here 100s of times. Most of the time people end up getting better because of things THEY realize somewhere along the way. The idea people have to see therapist for years is crazy to me lol.
If people want to save themselves a lot of self-doubt and time, money etc. they should realize most people in most professions really aren't that good. Some are awful, a few are good, most are mediocre at best. Anyone who trusts a banker, shrink, doctor, lawyer etc as if they are really smart and doubts their own abilities is asking for troubles. They can be of use of course and the sensible person knows how to use that. I tell you truly MOST people here can fix themselves when they are A) sincere B) dedicated C) honest and searching D) does their own research E) doesn't get caught up in the spin/hype. I knew as soon as I got to uni psychologists didn't know near as much as they pretended to - like a lot of others.
Last edited by Isoverity : 24-12-2011 at 04:06 AM.
To e honest I think anyone who trusts anyone implicitly is a bit dim. Take advice from many sources but ultimately make the decision yourself. Same goes for therapy. Listen, learn and take on board. But make the behavioural/cognitive changes yourself. For some, this takes time, others can do it quickly. It's down to the individual.
To e honest I think anyone who trusts anyone implicitly is a bit dim. Take advice from many sources but ultimately make the decision yourself. Same goes for therapy. Listen, learn and take on board. But make the behavioural/cognitive changes yourself. For some, this takes time, others can do it quickly. It's down to the individual.
It's not about being dim. People who need to see psychotherapists etc. will often look to the professional to make them feel better, and place a lot of stock in what the professional says through desperation to be relieved of their distress or psychological symptoms.
Often people who are referred to these so-called professionals lack the logic to pick and choose out of any of the support coming their way, which is wise to accept and which is not. Because the distress that's caused them to seek support in the first place will often make them of general irrationality, if not mentally unsound. They trust the professional because they've been given hope this person is going to bring them improvement. And building trust with the professional is often incorporated and encouraged during the course of sessions.
In saying this though, simple things like having anyone at all to speak to who has a reassuring tone, and has to follow the 'unconditional positive regard' stipulation that therapists have to abide by, towards the client i.e can't show any negativity towards them as apposed to such they probably will have experienced from people in the rest of their life - can go a long way.
But then the same could be gleamed from chatting to a good friend for free.
Stop thinking about what I want, what he wants, what your parents want. What do you want?
Plus a person has to want to be better. Many people want to feel better without being better. Its like the gambler who is sick of losing but isn't sorry for gambling. Therapists for people like that become a crutch. They can get a sense that they are working on things when they really aren't. That ends up serving as a block
How many psychotherapists does it take to change a lightbulb?
One, but only if the lightbulb really wants to change.
personally, ive been in therapy, mostly IP for about 6 years, and im still messed up.
works for some, doesnt work for others.
and the different kinds too, art therapy, psychodrama, dbt, cbt etc
its about finding the right one, and you get out of it what you put into it.
I'm fine! Totally fine. I don't know why it's coming out all loud and squeaky, 'cause really, I'm fine!
My friend at school got hit over the head with a chair and nothing was done, so we complained and they decided to send us to the councellor to 'make sure we felt safe' and this councellor spent three sessions trying to undermine me and make me out to be a bad person basically. I know this probably sounds a bit paranoid, but one session devoted to:
did you make it up?
No
Did you not even exaggerate a little bit?
No
Are you sure you didnt say something you didnt mean to in the heat of the moment?
I didnt
It wasnt reall that bad was it?
He hit her with a chair
Did you make it up?
We then moved on to school generally, where i got told off every time i said anything negative, and cried every time. After three sessions i just stopped turning up.
She was a really unscrupulous person, she put the schools aims and wants above those of the kids she was dealing with, whenever someone complained about bullying, and there was quite a lot of it, they got sent for a course on making friends with her instead of the people doing this being punished. Thats my only experience of any kind of therapy or counselling or whatever, but it asnt put me of completely, id still try again. Id just take a healthy does of skepticism with me. And im pretty sure they'd have kept me there as long as it was in their best interests to make out that i had a problem, i saw them so it to lots of people. Sometimes counselling, in schools anyway, can just be the easy option
He was no longer jean valjean but no. 24601 -les miserable
Some of life's mysteries will never be solved, such as why, after spending an entire evening listenong to Bach, do I find myself humming "the birdie song".......
I am reaching, but i fall, and the stars are black and cold, as i stare into the void of a world that cannot hold- les miserables
It depends on the therapy type, and the person's own situation (type of problem, the number of problems). For example, CBT is a very structured therapy and is meant to be used for a set number of sessions (the number depends on the problem and [sub]type of therapy). Psychoanalysis on the other hand is classically a very lengthy process - Freud worked with his patients for years on a very regular basis (modern psychoanalysis has been worked on to make it shorter as obviously therapy for years is pretty expensive, but the modern version is still lengthy).
Apologies for lack of personal perspective, if that's what you were looking for.
Actually I have no feelings toward them one way or another. They just muddle through as if they know things. Just like bankers, brokers and others who broke the economy despite advanced degrees. I go by the field as a whole. I would debate any of them - even from Oxbridge or Camford
Out of interest, what do you do/are you studying to do?
There's no hidden motivation, I'm simply curious.
Even as the stone of the fruit must break
that its heart may stand in the sun,
so must you know pain.
There are only two ways in which one can live their life. One is as though nothing is a miracle, the other is as though everything is.
Sometimes. I don't think its often though. I don't even think most therapists know what they are doing. I think many if not most make things worse. We have had an EXPLOSION of therapists, social workers etc over the last 40 years and all problems have escalated exponentially.
evidence please? Preferably something that also shows causation, which is what you're implying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoverity
Psychology got bogged down in chemistry and treats people as souless - without a conscience - just a mess of chemicals and hormones. Modern psychology is actually a lot more barbaric than people realise. I mean its medieval stuff.
I completely disagree with your last point. As for the bit I've highlighted, what makes you think that you're right? Many psychiatric disorders have been scientifically shown to be linked with chemistry, I could cite specifics if you like (please note: I do not ever imply causation where it has not been 100% proven). Conscience, which you mention, is a very debatable topic, and I personally feel the conscience that you're referring to (morality, rather than the state of being conscious, in opposition to being comatose or dead) is more in the realm of religion and philosophy to discuss, and not clinical psychology, psychiatry, or psychotherapy. Souls, likewise, cannot be scientifically proven; I don't mind people believing in souls, but I wouldn't like it seen as an accepted fact in my discipline.
But basically, you can dislike psychologists, that's your right, and I can't, and don't aim to change that, I take it you have had a bad experience with the profession or something, but please don't make unfounded arguments. To make such strong statements, you need very strong evidence.
I'll wander off now before I get into an argument, this isn't the board.
I trained as a therapist and we were taught that everyone is different and the length of therapy differs from person to person and for reason for the therapy.
I've seen therapists twice and that was it but in the same vein I saw a therapist for 7 years and she was great. No exxageration but she saved my life and taught me many things. Therapy did not end out of choice but circumstance but that is going off the point.
Any decent therapist should know when the therapy is not working - they just have to be 'man enough' to admit it. And to realise it's not working. That may be no-one's fault and just a circumstance. Wrong 'type' of therapy - Person Centred, Gestalt, DBT, CBT etc. Wrong 'sex' of therapist - male or female. And so on.
Also it's not really in a decent therapist's interests to keep on a relationship that isn't working.
In the UK, look out for the counsellor/therapist being BACP accredited, ahh there's another accredited association but it's slipped my mind. We had to be BACP registered as student's!! You can ask to see your therapist's qualifications and you can ask and get proof that they are accredited to an appropriate council.
GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE
THE COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN
AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE
What will reading those show people? I can't imagine I and others want to clutter our own interests and reading lists with something in which we hold little faith.
"Everything is possible through Christ, who gives me strength". Phillipians 4:13
Jack was saying how psychology has no soul. For those who're interested, those professionals talk/talked a lot about the soul. It wasn't a pressure on anyone.
What will reading those show people? I can't imagine I and others want to clutter our own interests and reading lists with something in which we hold little faith.
Well that's one way of looking at it.
But reading about views we hadn't thought of before thus learning is interesting and might encourage a person to perceive from an alternate angle. If we all stuck to our own 'reading lists' rigidly we'd be stuck in ruts.
What's wrong in expanding our interests beyond the ones we have already?
I seem to remember you took issue with the idea of having an open-mind in a thread in GC.
Though you attempt to speak for 'others,' I for one welcome the opportunity to read about new subjects on the recommendation of someone else. Apart from anything else it's then good for future conversation about what's then become mutual knowledge.
Stop thinking about what I want, what he wants, what your parents want. What do you want?
I have read stuff on psychotherapy before btw if that really bothers you so much. Found it full of psychobabble crap and could not see how it could get someone better although no doubt it does.
"Everything is possible through Christ, who gives me strength". Phillipians 4:13
