Buttons: Yes, maybe "attacking" was a strong word, but you did say that his post made you very mad and I was just trying to say that I don't think it was intended to make anyone mad and your strong reaction was not necessarily called for.
I would also say that most of the time in my post I said "I think what Isoverity means is..." I know I can't say I know what he means and that's not how I was trying to come across. What I was attempting to do was give him the benefit of the doubt by suggesting that he did not mean to be offensive, but if you would like to assume the worst in everybody that is your decision. And no part of what I said was judgmental in anyway and I have no idea how you saw it as so.
I also think that Isoverity's latest post was very well-educated and even if you don't agree with him, please don't come at him saying he's trying to be rude or that you're mad at him or that his opinions are ridiculous because frankly, they're not ridiculous they are very valid, and none of what he said is offensive whatsoever.
"I believe in running through the rain and crashing into the person you love and having your lips bleed on each other"
^And what about the other 63% who havne't been abused? The majority. They're, what? Faking it?
And what % of the straight population have been through the same thing? Probably the same or more.
I CBA with facts with you because you ignore them unless they suit you.
I never ignore real facts. In general people don't provide many since they haven't really looked into research and rely on slogans. Non homosexual populations have a much lower abuse rate (usually around 7-14%). Indeed, the rate of abuse is probably higher for both groups since many people forget or suppress past abuse.
As for other issues there are other studies. Problems with a depressed or abusive parent are one area:
"Reports of parental maltreatment during childhood in a United States population-based survey of homosexual, bisexual, and heterosexual adults"
CONCLUSIONS: Adult minority sexual orientation is a risk indicator for positive histories of experiencing parental maltreatment during childhood.
There are also studies showing a high rate of homosexuality and bisexuality among borderlines:
"Subjects with BPD were significantly more likely than comparison subjects to report homosexual or bisexual orientation and intimate same-sex relationships."
Now its not my intervention to try and persuade anyone to any conclusions. I just point out that many of the homosexual advocacy groups will say such studies don't exist and that its homophobic to link homosexuality with abuse, disorders or any kind etc.
^People very rarely fully 'forget' past abuse. Repression is a flawed defence mechanism.
And those who are bi sexual? Are they just.... half abused?
And those who are gay/bi who are mentally healthy and have no past abuse?
Just because you can find statistics to show a small % of the group have MH issues/abuse does not mean it is the answer to why people are the sexual orientation they are.
In my pysch folder at uni, will look up details in jan, there is a study (methodologically stringent, but a 'joke' research project) that links lung cancer in male and female patients with baking cakes at a statistically significant rate. Doesn't mean the two are actually linked causationally, simply corrolated
There are also studies showing a high rate of homosexuality and bisexuality among borderlines.
Ahh, I was just about to ask you to explain why I was gay, but now I know. Praise the Lord.
I was brought up to believe that being gay was wrong/undesirable, and will probably never 'come out' to my parents and thus remain forever alone, which seems to rule out the 'doing it for the funsies'. I was also never sexually abused, so was pretty stumped on how I'd turned out the way I am.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellatrix
In my pysch folder at uni, will look up details in jan, there is a study (methodologically stringent, but a 'joke' research project) that links lung cancer in male and female patients with baking cakes at a statistically significant rate. Doesn't mean the two are actually linked.
"Correlation does not imply causality". That quote was the highlight of my A level biology.
Also, how is it Ny different for you, jack, to say 'oh I was bullied in high school by a boy' and for it to then be assumed, oh he was hurt by a boy so his attraction to males has been turned 'off' and now he is simply straight.
D;
Guys, we don't gotta argue. People see things different ways, and since none of you are gonna change anybody else's minds, we can just drop it, y'know. :l
"And I don't want the world to see me,
'Cause I don't think that they'd understand.
When everything's meant to be broken,
I just want you to know who I am..." Iris-Goo Goo Dolls
Jack and I (and everyone! haha!) tend to get into rather heated debates. But it's generally all done in good spirits (or, at least, spirits are put aside and then brought out at the end for hugs!).
Sorry to have blasted all over your thread though!
Ah, well that is good then. ^^
Nah, I seem to be doing fine on my own, as I just recently got a girlfriend. :3
"And I don't want the world to see me,
'Cause I don't think that they'd understand.
When everything's meant to be broken,
I just want you to know who I am..." Iris-Goo Goo Dolls
Jack sorry for keep referring to you in the response below to a different poster and hope you don't disagree with anything said (apart from my opinions differing from yours on your anti-left wing thing). Back to business: I will acknowledge that there does seem to be a high rate of MH problems amongst the LGBT community, but being constantly hated on and told you are spawn of Satan and going to hell will do that. I also agree that there does seem to be a few that have been sexually abused, I certainly think it is far from the majority but I do acknowledge it's there. I however do not think it 'causes' homosexuality, I do personally believe that it can push a naturally bisexual over the edge into either identifying as gay or straight but I don't think those same sex feelings can ever be 'created'. Out of interest Jack what do you think of the studies that show brain differences between gay and straight people, and other biological studies?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danceintherain804
Buttons: Yes, maybe "attacking" was a strong word, but you did say that his post made you very mad and I was just trying to say that I don't think it was intended to make anyone mad and your strong reaction was not necessarily called for.
I would also say that most of the time in my post I said "I think what Isoverity means is..." I know I can't say I know what he means and that's not how I was trying to come across. What I was attempting to do was give him the benefit of the doubt by suggesting that he did not mean to be offensive, but if you would like to assume the worst in everybody that is your decision. And no part of what I said was judgmental in anyway and I have no idea how you saw it as so.
I also think that Isoverity's latest post was very well-educated and even if you don't agree with him, please don't come at him saying he's trying to be rude or that you're mad at him or that his opinions are ridiculous because frankly, they're not ridiculous they are very valid, and none of what he said is offensive whatsoever.
Now you see you are in my opinion being a prime example of an intelligent and usually reasonable person jumping to conclusions. Yes I told Jack that his post had made me angry. This is because a) expressing anger by saying 'I am angry' is better than letting it fester and then later on coming out with something like 'you xxxx xxxxxx' (don't think that at all of you Jack as a side point just making a separate point). b) What you don't know is the fact that as much as one can through an internet site, Jack and I (and JodiE/Bellatrix) know each other, we have had many many debates, discussions and he has at times been very supportive for which I am very thankful. However at other times he has made me really bloody angry. Swings and round abouts you see? But don't ever imply that I don't respect him. I do.
I don't assume the worst in people. And I really quite resent the assumption you have made about me there 0.o You don't know me. You've never met me. Interesting how you seem to feel you can speak for people and judge people based on a thread on a SH support website 0.o
Some of what he says is offensive to me and many other people so again, you cannot make a value judgement on behalf of other people, just because you don't find it offensive doesn't mean other people don't. Yes Jack is very intelligent. Yes he can make a valid point. Not denying that. Whenever I agree with him I say so. I just believe he is unfortunately using a large part of his intellect to fight in the wrong corner and because he is so clever he is very good at deluding himself that everyone who is remotely left wing are zombies spouting left wing propaganda. When in fact at least some of us are intelligent people who just happen to have opposing views.
Now *breathes* original poster that is fantastic!!! How's it going with her?
'Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.'
['There is only one thing we say to death. Not today'.']
'We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell. Oscar Wilde
Its hard to dance with the devil on your back. Sydney Carter
PS. I think it was a bit disrespectful to the OP that people felt the need to take over a support thread by having a debate on sexuality as an aside from the support she was after, despite her more than once expressing disinterest. Surely it could have been taken elsewhere.
No matter how 'strong your feelings are.'
Sometimes it's just not the time to detail them at length because the most important person in the discussion isn't even interested in what you think.
Stop thinking about what I want, what he wants, what your parents want. What do you want?
It's going wonderfully so far. I still have my slight fears, but, so far, all is well. I am happy to have her as my own again, especially with the past drama that happened with us. :D
"And I don't want the world to see me,
'Cause I don't think that they'd understand.
When everything's meant to be broken,
I just want you to know who I am..." Iris-Goo Goo Dolls
im just gna throw my little bit in here.
i came out as a bisexual, then a lesbian, then i fell in love witha guy
people can love who they want to love.
we dont need to know if we are a lesbian or straight or bisexual, just that we love the person who we love.
people ask me "so are you straight now, because, xans a guy? i suply tell people that i am who i am and i love who i love end of, i dont feel a lebel is neccicary for this.
We are so accustomed to disguise ourselves to others that in the end we become disguised to ourselves.
It's going wonderfully so far. I still have my slight fears, but, so far, all is well. I am happy to have her as my own again, especially with the past drama that happened with us. :D
That's fantastic news hon good for you :)
'Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.'
['There is only one thing we say to death. Not today'.']
'We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell. Oscar Wilde
Its hard to dance with the devil on your back. Sydney Carter
Out of interest Jack what do you think of the studies that show brain differences between gay and straight people, and other biological studies?.....
Some of what he says is offensive to me and many other people so again, you cannot make a value judgement on behalf of other people, just because you don't find it offensive doesn't mean other people don't. Yes Jack is very intelligent. Yes he can make a valid point. Not denying that. Whenever I agree with him I say so. I just believe he is unfortunately using a large part of his intellect to fight in the wrong corner and because he is so clever he is very good at deluding himself that everyone who is remotely left wing are zombies spouting left wing propaganda. When in fact at least some of us are intelligent people who just happen to have opposing views.
As for brain differences - brain scan studies were once the darling of psychobiology but they started losing credibility some years ago. People were simply trying to make too much out of them. Much of what was measured took place after behaviours and not prior. Conclusion based on shape and size of brain parts were often superficial. Athletes often have more muscle than non athletes. Nobody would say having more muscle causes people to be athletic. Being athletic in the first place will often cause people to have more muscle.
The current soulless version of popular psychology loves anything that reduces people to blobs of chemicals, impulses and anatomical discrepancies. Its all quite medieval despite the veneer of scientism
As for the part upsetting people and left wing zombies you contradict yourself. You write that some left wing people aren't zombies sprouting propaganda and they just have opposing views.
That's fine - likewise I also have opposing views and that doesn't mean I have them in order to upset people. I don't think SI is the best behaviour. I assume people engaged in it weren't born to SI. I am sure their are people who would be offended I think those things but to me its a matter of common sense (which is no longer common). Growing up I examined a lot of my own behaviours and learned to to rationalise some things away.
What people find offensive is not relevant. If I politely told a cannibal eating people was disgusting he would be offended. I don't believe in the death penalty despite being conservative on other issues. Other conservatives get upset with me for that but what am I supposed to do?
Now I always liked you more than a lot of other people at RYL and I have very good and specific reasons for that. What you do in your personal life really doesn't stand out in front of my mind.
My main problem is with agenda groups trying to defame and bully their way to control of debates while crying crocodile tears about bullying and name calling. Gay groups will say there is no correlation between homosexuality and abuse when there are voluminous studies that show exactly that. If anyone brings up those studies they get defamed as a phobe of some stripe. That's brainwashing and its been intentional as a tactic - I've read the books that outlined the strategy.
Still - I don't care what people are into in their own lives. Its just that I see the trend towards some pretty bizarre and monstrous things. One is the push to put kids as young as 5 or 7 on hormone blockers so they can "decide" what gender to be latter. I mean that's Nazi doctor stuff.
Of course the danger of suicide is bandied about as an excuse but it's fraudulent. I know suicide stats and trends very well. There is no "gay suicide holocaust" like I see in the news. One boy became a celebrity touting a gay holocaust of 6 million gays a year. That's ludicrous and yet it doesn't get challenged in media. Its like Alice through the looking glass.
“There is a silent holocaust out there, in which an estimated 6 million gay people every year kill themselves.”
I know its been mentioned above, but could i please ask that the thread returns to being for supporting the OP rather than debating the specifics of sexuality.
