The reason I was uncomfortable with the sex scene was that it wasn't just rough, if it leaves somebody with bruises etc then that's pretty violent. I get that it wasn't actually rape because she wanted to have sex with him. But for me personally, it brought up images of sexual violence which I found disturbing. I liked the first book because I kind of could believe that, at seventeen, people can make really stupid decisions when they're in love, and you can get swept away in the romance, and even creepy, possessive, stalker behaviour might seem like it means somebody loves you. I suppose what got me was that she keeps putting up with it, and she goes back to him and stays with him.
And I thought Edward proposing to her was kind of going back on the previous books too, because he is supposed to want her to have a full life, that's why he doesn't change her in the beginning right? So why get her to marry you at 18 or 19? Why doesn't he encourage her to do more with her life first? Especially when she turns him down at first. It kind of seemed like she only married him so that they could have sex. And then as soon as they did she got pregnant? So essentially by 19 she is a housewife with a baby. I just thought it was bad writing TBH. I think an epilogue with the marriage/baby thing, or a sequel years down the line about the pregnancy would have been slightly more believeable. Yes, I get that it's about vampires and none of it is actually believeable, but if you're trying to create well-rounded characters, the way they act has to be somewhat believable even if the actual story isn't. That's what makes good fiction, surely?
Anyway I have clearly come to the wrong place, apparently this is purely a Twilight fan/appreciation thread rather than a discussion thread where people seriously review books and discuss them. My mistake. Maybe you should change the name of the thread to reflect that so you don't get annoying people like me 'ruining it', since the forum is actually called 'reviews and recommendations'.
s a r a h
* pm me * eating disorders info *
"Between two worlds life hovers like a star,
twixt night and morn, upon the horizon's verge."
- Lord Byron
The reason I was uncomfortable with the sex scene was that it wasn't just rough, if it leaves somebody with bruises etc then that's pretty violent. I get that it wasn't actually rape because she wanted to have sex with him. But for me personally, it brought up images of sexual violence which I found disturbing. I liked the first book because I kind of could believe that, at seventeen, people can make really stupid decisions when they're in love, and you can get swept away in the romance, and even creepy, possessive, stalker behaviour might seem like it means somebody loves you. I suppose what got me was that she keeps putting up with it, and she goes back to him and stays with him.
Just because she got bruises out of it doesn't mean it's violent. I got a bruise from walking into a table.. I was being violent. *shrugs*
Quote:
Originally Posted by plastic rose
And I thought Edward proposing to her was kind of going back on the previous books too, because he is supposed to want her to have a full life, that's why he doesn't change her in the beginning right? So why get her to marry you at 18 or 19? Why doesn't he encourage her to do more with her life first? Especially when she turns him down at first. It kind of seemed like she only married him so that they could have sex. And then as soon as they did she got pregnant? So essentially by 19 she is a housewife with a baby. I just thought it was bad writing TBH. I think an epilogue with the marriage/baby thing, or a sequel years down the line about the pregnancy would have been slightly more believeable. Yes, I get that it's about vampires and none of it is actually believeable, but if you're trying to create well-rounded characters, the way they act has to be somewhat believable even if the actual story isn't. That's what makes good fiction, surely?
Some teenagers get married at 18/19 anyway in real life, so for me - that's believeable.
She didn't marry him for sex. The condition was that he would only turn her into a vampire if they got married, that's why she said yes. He wouldn't have sex with her when she was human in fear of hurting her from his strength.
Personally, I think that the way they act is believeable - like you said, when your young and in love, you make stupid decisions. (In this case, marrying young, making snap desicions etc).
Quote:
Originally Posted by plastic rose
Anyway I have clearly come to the wrong place, apparently this is purely a Twilight fan/appreciation thread rather than a discussion thread where people seriously review books and discuss them. My mistake. Maybe you should change the name of the thread to reflect that so you don't get annoying people like me 'ruining it', since the forum is actually called 'reviews and recommendations'.
That's completely unfair to say that.
We are meerly voicing our opinion as your doing with yours - it's simply a case of having a different opinion on the subject. Just because we don't agree with your opinion, 1) doesn't mean it's wrong. 2) doesn't mean we don't discuss the book.
And we never said you were ruining it, as I said, we're just voicing our opinions and what we think the book is about, just like your doing with your opinion. There is goign to be clashes in opinion, naturally, and we obviously aren't going to agree on things.
We're simply going to have to agree to disagree.
DILLIGAF
"it’s when you’re acting selflessly, that you are at your bravest"
- Four.
♥
And we never said you were ruining it, as I said, we're just voicing our opinions and what we think the book is about, just like your doing with your opinion. There is goign to be clashes in opinion, naturally, and we obviously aren't going to agree on things.
We're simply going to have to agree to disagree.
Well, the first person to respond did actually say "it's people like you who ruin it", and the next person said "OMG! It's just a book!" so I don't think that what I said was especially unfair. Everybody else responded perfectly reasonably, but because of the first two responses I now just feel defensive and therefore I think it's a subject for another thread, another forum possibly. That's all I was saying. I'm not trying to start drama or be bitter.
s a r a h
* pm me * eating disorders info *
"Between two worlds life hovers like a star,
twixt night and morn, upon the horizon's verge."
- Lord Byron
Ah okay, I didn't see those responses. Sorry about that. The response saying "It's people like you who ruin it" is a bit uncalled for. We're all entitled to our own opinions and views on things.
I can understand why people are saying "it's just a book", because well, it is. It's just some fiction someone thought up, but then again, I can see sort of where you coming from and looking at the characters motivations and actions etc.
You shouldn't feel as if you have to be defensive about your opinions - because as I said before, you are entitled to them. I don't think it's a subject for another thread/forum because we are discussing the book/film and the characters in it, so it's a totally appropriate discussion to be going on in this thread, so please feel free to continue it!
DILLIGAF
"it’s when you’re acting selflessly, that you are at your bravest"
- Four.
♥
It IS just a book!!! You studied Frankenstein, but were you talking about it's so real and people aren't like that in real life... I think the problem with this series is that people everywhere love it. Same as harry potter. And when anything strikes up this much of a following (especially in young people) it causes people to strike out against it. I know schools and churches that have banned Twilight as well as Harry Potter becasue it is corrupting today's youth... It's over the top and ridiculous! It is just a book. It's not a true story.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
It IS just a book!!! You studied Frankenstein, but were you talking about it's so real and people aren't like that in real life... I think the problem with this series is that people everywhere love it. Same as harry potter. And when anything strikes up this much of a following (especially in young people) it causes people to strike out against it. I know schools and churches that have banned Twilight as well as Harry Potter becasue it is corrupting today's youth... It's over the top and ridiculous! It is just a book. It's not a true story.
yeh its only a book it is not real life!! i agree totally!! people choose to read the book, you have a choice! no one is forcing anyone to read it at all! if it comes to a part you dont like then put it down and dont read it.
* goes back to look for a shiny volvo driving about*
Last edited by x_broken_hearted_x : 26-08-2010 at 11:35 AM.
<3 <3 <3 Love you with all my heart baby girl. I miss you so much 21/11/11 RIP beautiful
It IS just a book!!! You studied Frankenstein, but were you talking about it's so real and people aren't like that in real life... I think the problem with this series is that people everywhere love it. Same as harry potter. And when anything strikes up this much of a following (especially in young people) it causes people to strike out against it. I know schools and churches that have banned Twilight as well as Harry Potter becasue it is corrupting today's youth... It's over the top and ridiculous! It is just a book. It's not a true story.
Did I say that anyone should ban them? Did I say that it's corrupting today's youth? Why are you conflating my opinion with people who make claims like that? Just because I have a different opinion to you, doesn't mean I think they should be banned. I don't think there's anything wrong with people loving Twilight. I was talking about why I don't love it. That's just a personal opinion and I'm entitled to say my opinion about a book. Isn't that what this thread is for? Talking about a book?
I began by bringing up social and cultural topics, which is exactly the sort of thing people study when they study a book, whether it's Frankenstein, Harry Potter, Robinson Crusoe or Jane Eyre. You didn't like that so then I moved on to saying why I specifically didn't like the book in terms of it seeming realistic, and now you're saying that's not valid because I wouldn't have studied that? Could you explain what you mean? Because I don't understand what you're trying to say at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by x_tears_will_flow_x
i agree totally!! people choose to read the book, you have a choice! no one is forcing anyone to read it at all! if it comes to a part you dont like then put it down and dont read it.
Yeah, and I chose to read it and then comment on it in this thread because this is a Twilight thread. What's your point? If I don't like something I should just ignore it rather than state my opinion just because you might not like it?
s a r a h
* pm me * eating disorders info *
"Between two worlds life hovers like a star,
twixt night and morn, upon the horizon's verge."
- Lord Byron
Anyway I have clearly come to the wrong place, apparently this is purely a Twilight fan/appreciation thread rather than a discussion thread where people seriously review books and discuss them. My mistake. Maybe you should change the name of the thread to reflect that so you don't get annoying people like me 'ruining it', since the forum is actually called 'reviews and recommendations'.
From what I recall a discussion involves two sides, which usually dont completely agree. However, when the majority disagree with you, we get told that we are one sided and not open to discussion.
No book is perfect, but no human is perfect. We all make stupid descsions spured on by our feelings. I dont think a book should be dismissed because a character in it makes the illogical choice.
I guess a lot of people in this thread get defensive about twilight as it is something they like and enjoy, yet they get ridiculed in many many places for it.
From what I recall a discussion involves two sides, which usually dont completely agree. However, when the majority disagree with you, we get told that we are one sided and not open to discussion.
No, the reason I'm saying that that some people are one sided and not open to discussion is that they've flat out said "if you don't like it, then go away". See the above post.
Also, I actually said that I really liked the first film and book. I'm not here to talk about how much I hate Twilight. I was trying to engage in conversation about them. I don't get why people feel the need to attack me and tell me to get out just because my opinion was not that I completely loved them exactly as they are.
s a r a h
* pm me * eating disorders info *
"Between two worlds life hovers like a star,
twixt night and morn, upon the horizon's verge."
- Lord Byron
Hi just thought id make a thread on the twilight saga books which wont die :P
just talking and the books and films really,
Im currently on the third book (eclise) and after reading that
if you dont like the films/books and want to express your hatred please go elsewhere :)
thankyouu
I don't think that's fair.
As said before, this is a thread to discuss the twilight books and films, anyone should be able to come in and express their views on the subject. Just because they don't like it, or have different views etc on it than the majority of people, should stop them from expressing the views. The Twilight Saga and the characters in it are interpreted by everyone in a different way, and people should be able to feel free to talk about their way of interpretating the books/films.
How would you like it, if you had an opinion on something and wanted to express it in a thread like this, and you were told to go away and not express your opinion? Basically saying that because your opinion is different and doesn't go along with everyone elses then it's "wrong"?
It's not fair on the person at all.
I don't 100% agree with how plastic_rose (Sorry, I don't know your name), is interpretating the books/films but I don't mind them stating their views/opinions in this thread, because again - this is what this thread is for, not just "twilight lovers only".
DILLIGAF
"it’s when you’re acting selflessly, that you are at your bravest"
- Four.
♥
It's a fictional book about vampires, werewolves and teenage romance. It creates a fictional world that anyone who reads it can get caught up in. If you get bogged down in the real politics behind it I think you lose the magic of it. That's just my personal opinion.
Why not fantasize about Edward too - every girl would love a guy to love and protect her from harm that much, wouldn't they? Although most girls don't have vampires wanting to kill them so......
Why not fantasize about Edward too - every girl would love a guy to love and protect her from harm that much, wouldn't they?
But that's kind of my point. He might be 'protective' but at the same time his presence in her life is what puts her in the way of harm. She is in danger whenever she is around him because he is constantly fighting the urge to drink her blood, and doesn't know to what degree he will be able to do so. And her other major threat comes from vampires - James, Victoria, Jasper in New Moon - who wouldn't know she existed if not for her involvement with Edward.
And in response to the 'wouldn't they?', personally, I definitely wouldn't want a guy who snuck into my bedroom while I was sleeping and followed me around before we were even seeing each other, just in case I got into trouble, and appears in my subconscious daydreams to tell me to 'be careful' even after he's left me for dead in the forest. I've done the whole replacing an absent father figure with a paternally protective boyfriend thing, and while it is very nice to feel protected and safe with somebody, and I completely understand that aspect of Edward's appeal, you definitely don't want them to take it to the point where they're stalking you, and the constant worrying and needing to know where you are and who you're with gets old REAL fast.
Like I said, I get the appeal, and that, because it's fantasy, you can ignore the weird, controlling bits. I also get that Edward represents the 'the heart wants what it wants' argument, in other words, Jacob is the logical choice in every conceiveable way, but Bella just doesn't love him in the same way that she loves Edward. Fantasising about somebody who loves you so fiercely that they would die for you is nothing new. But I know from third-person persepctive that can turn into very scary in real life. I guess that affects the way I read it. But I still like the first three books/films mostly, even though I do believe they represent some sexist attitudes. If no book is perfect, no feminist is either, and while I try to be aware of the gender issues going on in popular culture, I have my guilty pleasures like anyone else. And in a way women indulging their own guilty pleasures is a very feminist message. That was what I was trying to say before but it didn't quite come out right.
s a r a h
* pm me * eating disorders info *
"Between two worlds life hovers like a star,
twixt night and morn, upon the horizon's verge."
- Lord Byron
<3 <3 <3 Love you with all my heart baby girl. I miss you so much 21/11/11 RIP beautiful
