I disagree that these threads try and normalize or glamorize SI... Everyone here is here for the same reason, help, which means we know our SI is wrong, and not normal. Sometimes it just helps tho to know your not the only one struggling with a certain thing, and that if another person who does what your doing can put in the effort to recover, you can too... If it's possible for them, it gives you some hope that it's possible for you.
Sorry. If that sounded at all mean, or offensive to anyone, I didn't mean it that way. =)
I agree 100%
I have nothing els to add really, except that I think the rules are strict enough, and rightfully so! I would hate them to become stricter, for lack of a better word, with threads like the, carving words one etc being removed. Its really helpfull (and not normalising in my opinion) to know that 'you' are not the only one doing certain behavious (ie word carving). Sometimes details ARE important, we all know how isolating SI is and sometimes knowing that others are doing particular things that you do is really helpfull amd def not encouraging\glamorising. There is def a fine line but dont think these threads have crossed it. And without being too harsh no one is forced to read any thread... sorry for the rant.
I think a degree of "normalizing" is almost necessary in order for some people to be able to talk about it. I can't speak for anyone else here, but I come to this site because I feel less ashamed, and better able to open up and actually address some of the things that bother me about my own self-harm, rather than just putting a good face on it the way I do most of the time in offline life. The biggest reason I've come to feel comfortable enough to do that is that sense of shared experience. I've posted to some of the "why" threads also because it sometimes serves the purpose of helping to establish one's identity here on the site. I use it as a reference; if I know more about someone else's given situation, then when they post for support later on I'll at least have the basics down. I use it in tandem with the intro boards.
I see what you mean about there being a "competitive" edge to some of the threads, but honestly even that strikes me as a kind of lonely crying out--a need to be seen and heard in a way that some of us are simply not in our daily lives. Is it great? No. But bear in mind also that one of the most common reasons people turn to SI is lack of validation. If no one hears you when you're talking, you either shut up entirely...or you talk louder.
Last edited by Pierrot : 18-08-2010 at 07:22 PM.
Reason: to refine
I think a degree of "normalizing" is almost necessary in order for some people to be able to talk about it. I can't speak for anyone else here, but I come to this site because I feel less ashamed, and better able to open up and actually address some of the things that bother me about my own self-harm, rather than just putting a good face on it the way I do most of the time in offline life. The biggest reason I've come to feel comfortable enough to do that is that sense of shared experience. I see what you mean about there being a "competitive" edge to some of the threads, but honestly even that strikes me as a kind of lonely crying out--a need to be seen and heard in a way that some of us are simply not in our daily lives. Is it great? No. But bear in mind also that one of the most common reasons people turn to SI is lack of validation. If no one hears you when you're talking, you either shut up entirely...or you talk louder.
I just wanted to say I thought this was very well-said.
I think a degree of "normalizing" is almost necessary in order for some people to be able to talk about it. I can't speak for anyone else here, but I come to this site because I feel less ashamed, and better able to open up and actually address some of the things that bother me about my own self-harm, rather than just putting a good face on it the way I do most of the time in offline life. The biggest reason I've come to feel comfortable enough to do that is that sense of shared experience. I've posted to some of the "why" threads also because it sometimes serves the purpose of helping to establish one's identity here on the site. I use it as a reference; if I know more about someone else's given situation, then when they post for support later on I'll at least have the basics down. I use it in tandem with the intro boards.
I see what you mean about there being a "competitive" edge to some of the threads, but honestly even that strikes me as a kind of lonely crying out--a need to be seen and heard in a way that some of us are simply not in our daily lives. Is it great? No. But bear in mind also that one of the most common reasons people turn to SI is lack of validation. If no one hears you when you're talking, you either shut up entirely...or you talk louder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer And Believer
I just wanted to say I thought this was very well-said.
I think a degree of "normalizing" is almost necessary in order for some people to be able to talk about it.
I see what you mean about there being a "competitive" edge to some of the threads, but honestly even that strikes me as a kind of lonely crying out--a need to be seen and heard in a way that some of us are simply not in our daily lives. Is it great? No. But bear in mind also that one of the most common reasons people turn to SI is lack of validation. If no one hears you when you're talking, you either shut up entirely...or you talk louder.
Maybe it's just me (and it probably is) but I think that being a member of a self-harm forum is enough validation. I agree that normalising happens here, and with a site where everyone has self-harmed it is inevitable. However, there is a fine line between accepting that we are all here for a reason and almost reveling in the fact that we self-harm. In some of these threads that is the sort of vibe I get. Some (not all!) feel like they are almost bragging about what they do. It's no wonder that those who scratch, or who have never been to A&E, or don't cut terribly deep can feel out of place and like they are not 'bad enough'.
I'd just like to add that I have no real problem with discussions that take place. It's just that I dislike the "it's ok to do this" attitude which is prevalent.
Last edited by The One Who : 18-08-2010 at 10:03 PM.
I'd just like to add that I have no real problem with discussions that take place. It's just that I dislike the "it's ok to do this" attitude which is prevalent.
This.
& For those that say if you don't like it don't go on the boards.
I don't.
I see the replies when I watch live view.
Maybe it's my age, but the replies i see unnerve me & sicken me a little bit.
I understand where you are coming from but at the same time i think threads like carving words etc people don't have the chance even in therapy goods to talk about details like that,yes we can talk about the emotions but sometimes talking about certain details helps. Your saying about covering up/hiding being contradictory but we can't discuss certain other elements. I understand why the rules exist here but sometimes your just dying to talk about the how/why/wheres to someone, anyone, not as a show off thing but because there is no one you can tell.
the thing is, in therapy, there is the chance to talk about it.
some wonderful psychiatrists & psychologists play what i call the silent game & are quiet until you spill everything. carving words can be discussed with a doctor, as can, where, when & how & if the doctor says 'i don't want to hear it' or similar a new one should be found.
in therapy it is to help you, not the psych or psychologist, so if you cannot discuss it in therapy & it is that important to discuss with strangers on a website, well?
i just think the self harm forum should be removed in parts, maybe linked into an everything goes like jack suggested, i think threads encourage threads of similar things & i think it is mostly younger people who frequent the forum or new people when i don't feel it is a healthy atmosphere, hence why i don't go in.
Maybe it's my age, but the replies i see unnerve me & sicken me a little bit.
It's because we are old codgers. Obviously.
I have just a full read through of the carving words thread. It's not offering any direct support, nor is it offering any form of discussion. There was one or two posts offering very good advice and they have been next to ignored. I don't see what twenty-odd people saying "Yes, I have 'fat' cut here and 'hate' carved here" or "it offers something more than just cutting" adds. I would even go so far as to class the thread as bordering on pro, to be honest.
I'm sure we're all aware that I fully support a more open, mature and personally responsible RYL. However, I don't support something that is tip-sharing, glamourising, or normalising.
The problem with that, is that we're a self harm forum. We can't have a self harm forum without a self harm board. I used to struggle to talk to my counsellor because I couldn't talk about it due to a difficulty that I have talking to people I know face to face about such things. Strangers on a website I could manage because I don't have to see their facial or bodily expressions.
I have just a full read through of the carving words thread. It's not offering any direct support, nor is it offering any form of discussion. There was one or two posts offering very good advice and they have been next to ignored. I don't see what twenty-odd people saying "Yes, I have 'fat' cut here and 'hate' carved here" or "it offers something more than just cutting" adds. I would even go so far as to class the thread as bordering on pro, to be honest.
I'm sure we're all aware that I fully support a more open, mature and personally responsible RYL. However, I don't support something that is tip-sharing, glamourising, or normalising.
That's what I was trying to say, which is why I said that I would willingly take part in conversations but not add to the pro aspect of it by going into detail.
However, I don't support something that is tip-sharing, glamourising, or normalising.
see i completely dont get this feeling from the forum. ive never understood the whole tip-sharing thing myself, SI is SI no matter how you do it, so for me if someone writes "carving fat gives something extra to cutting" i just see that as them validifiying their pain and why they do it, not tip-sharing. again i dont get the whole glamourising thing either. i dont get that feeling when people post saying they 'like' self harming, because well dont we all? we must atleast take some comfort from it otherwise we wouldn't do it surely? with the normalising thing im a bit unsure which side im on actually. i really can see where youre coming from, but as i said in my other post i also know other will see that as a safe and comforting atmosphere.
i do have this to say however, if you take these threads out of the SI board what else is left? seriously without these threads you may aswell change to forum name to the 'hugs and kisses' forum.
We can't have a self harm forum without a self harm board.
Why not?
I used to be on a really neutral site (you could tip share but you could aslo you ask for support in stopping) & the actual self harm discussion forum was barely used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The 666th Pope
i do have this to say however, if you take these threads out of the SI board what else is left? seriously without these threads you may aswell change to forum name to the 'hugs and kisses' forum.
Then you word replies so they aren't all hugs and kisses, you challenge people to actually try to recover, if thats what they are after, & offer constructive support, instead of reply *hugs & kisses* to everything.
I would have thought being on a self-harm forum that acceptance was implicit. We are all here because at some point we have self-harmed.
I do see your point, however for me, being here isn't simply enough to convince me that I'm not alone- just because people are here because they've self harmed doesn't mean they feel the way I do, have stories similar to mine or the same behaviours. Talking it through really helps me when other people are struggling with urges too or are dealing with the same 'issues'. I don't know how to explain this properly, but talking on these threads gives faces, names, personalities to people who understand you're troubles and are going through the same thing- and that means a lot more to me than a statistical number. But maybe that's just me.
Then you word replies so they aren't all hugs and kisses, you challenge people to actually try to recover, if thats what they are after, & offer constructive support, instead of reply *hugs & kisses* to everything.
i dont believe you recover from SI, i believe you recover from what causes SI. if your self harm is becoming dangerous to your health then yes it should definitely be addressed, but i dont believe that we should focus on stopping someone from self harming if all thats doing is sweeping the real problem, the problems that are driving the destructive behaviour, under a rug for the benefit of social norm.
see i completely dont get this feeling from the forum. ive never understood the whole tip-sharing thing myself, SI is SI no matter how you do it, so for me if someone writes "carving fat gives something extra to cutting" i just see that as them validifiying their pain and why they do it, not tip-sharing. again i dont get the whole glamourising thing either. i dont get that feeling when people post saying they 'like' self harming, because well dont we all? we must atleast take some comfort from it otherwise we wouldn't do it surely? with the normalising thing im a bit unsure which side im on actually. i really can see where youre coming from, but as i said in my other post i also know other will see that as a safe and comforting atmosphere.
i do have this to say however, if you take these threads out of the SI board what else is left? seriously without these threads you may aswell change to forum name to the 'hugs and kisses' forum.
I think the reply needs to be seen within the context of the thread. If I had posted saying that cutting words gives me something more than just cutting, then that could be challenged and supported. However, on that thread it was just people saying yes they've done it, and in that context I found it a bit more on the side of tip-sharing than the others. There was no direct supportive function to the thread. I could post something similar (I don't know if I would allowed to give an example) on the ED board and it would immediately be seen as 'pro' and removed.
I don't want these threads removed. I would just like some consistency. Like I said, I fully support a more open RYL, but we can't have that lying within a forum that is meant to be 'safe'. It needs to be one or the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodi
I do see your point, however for me, being here isn't simply enough to convince me that I'm not alone- just because people are here because they've self harmed doesn't mean they feel the way I do, have stories similar to mine or the same behaviours. Talking it through really helps me when other people are struggling with urges too or are dealing with the same 'issues'. I don't know how to explain this properly, but talking on these threads gives faces, names, personalities to people who understand you're troubles and are going through the same thing- and that means a lot more to me than a statistical number. But maybe that's just me.
I'd rather not have my personality be aligned with my self-harm. Yes, it is a part of me, but it is not what makes me who I am. I do not associate my personality with my self-harm at all.
I have no problem with people discussing things like urges, as long as they are not done in a competitive or glamourising way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The 666th Pope
i dont believe you recover from SI, i believe you recover from what causes SI. if your self harm is becoming dangerous to your health then yes it should definitely be addressed, but i dont believe that we should focus on stopping someone from self harming if all thats doing is sweeping the real problem, the problems that are driving the destructive behaviour, under a rug for the benefit of social norm.
I think we agree with this, in that we would prefer the actual causes of the self-harm are discussed? But I do not really see that happening on the forum currently.
Eating Disorders and Self harm shouldn't be compared in such a casual manner. As far as I can understand it, the death rate from an eating disorder is fair bit higher.
I really don't see how cutting words is tip sharing? It's just shapes, not a more dangerous method of self harm.
As for the How and When did you start self harming threads. That's pretty relevant to the actual cause of things. Isn't it?
I wasn't comparing the issues, just the type of posts. I'm well aware that eating disorders are different, but they are treated so differently.
No, cutting words isn't tip-sharing (although some might see it as such) but is there really a need to say I cut [word] onto [body part]? It would have been fine if the post was used for support rather than just a list, if you see what I mean? If the post was used to discuss why the person feels the need to do it, whilst still letting them know that they weren't alone in it.
What I say as tip-sharing was the 'it gives me something more than just cutting' post. Now, if that's not giving someone ideas, I don't know what is.
As for the how and why, well no, not really. Because again it's just a list. I don't see how that is providing any sort of discussion or any sort of support.
the thing is, in therapy, there is the chance to talk about it.
some wonderful psychiatrists & psychologists play what i call the silent game & are quiet until you spill everything. carving words can be discussed with a doctor, as can, where, when & how & if the doctor says 'i don't want to hear it' or similar a new one should be found.
in therapy it is to help you, not the psych or psychologist, so if you cannot discuss it in therapy & it is that important to discuss with strangers on a website, well?
Not all of us go to therapy though, I know that I certainly don't. And not all of us have a support system that's willing to talk about our SI, if they even know about it. Sometimes the only place a person has to turn is "strangers on a website" because those "strangers" can relate to what we're going through, insted of telling us how sick and messed up we already know we are.
"Wish that I could cry,
Fall apon my knees,
Find a way to lie,
About the home I'll never see"
Superman by Five For Fighting
^i have to agree with that, 2 years in and i STILL can't get therapy-DBT would be beneficial for my BPD and self hamr but theV don't have the resources here
Though i don't agree with normalising issues, i also don't agree with not talking about difficult things and brushing them under the carpet. It took me years to be able to talk about my self harm as it has always had a stigma attached to it. With Ryl some of that stigma is taken away so you can open up.
Life Is Like A Beautiful Melody Only The Lyrics Are Messed Up
Maybe it's just me (and it probably is) but I think that being a member of a self-harm forum is enough validation. I agree that normalising happens here, and with a site where everyone has self-harmed it is inevitable. However, there is a fine line between accepting that we are all here for a reason and almost reveling in the fact that we self-harm. In some of these threads that is the sort of vibe I get. Some (not all!) feel like they are almost bragging about what they do. It's no wonder that those who scratch, or who have never been to A&E, or don't cut terribly deep can feel out of place and like they are not 'bad enough'.
I'd just like to add that I have no real problem with discussions that take place. It's just that I dislike the "it's ok to do this" attitude which is prevalent.
I see what you mean about being validated just by joining the boards, and to a degree I think you're right; after all, here is a whole site full of people who suffer similar troubles. It potentially poses a huge benefit to recovery. But to me, it's not so cut and dried. Again, I can speak only from personal experience, but I only started looking into support for self-harm at the start of this year, and I've been self-harming since I was nineteen; to say this has been a cautious experiment for me would be understating it. Just realizing the forum is here is not a guarantee that everyone is going to feel comfortable opening up immediately, or at all; that's not something that happens right away. Self-harm, for me, has been a lonely and at times frightening road. Sometimes it has been of great benefit to come here and read where people have posted the same thoughts I have, or talked about the same urges to escalate. I see where you are saying that these behaviors should be challenged more on the boards, and addressed more head-on, but there is also a disclaimer right on the site's page that says this isn't a substitute for professional help. Every time I port in support, I ask myself whether I'm going to do more harm than good by asking probing questions and trying to get at the root of things. I'm not a therapist, I don't know the kinds of questions to ask. I definitely do not want to hurt someone's feelings, or make them think they're not welcome to post here just to receive validation or hugs if that is what they desire.
Second thing...I don't know about anyone else, but at times I do revel in the fact that I self-harm. I struggle with the urges to escalate, or do different things that would be more "effective." Self-harm does have a powerful lure; why else would so many people end up stuck in it, and struggle so to quit? That's part of the reason I'm on this site in the first place: to try and talk about the stranger aspects of my self-harm, find common ground, and maybe, eventually, accept for myself that I really could potentially overcome this. I can talk about self-harm to my therapist, and I do. But I've only been in therapy for a few months now...I've been self-harming for years. And in what has passed for my support network up to now, there was no way I could have ever talked about something like struggling with wanting to get worse.
On that same topic, I think it's important to accept the fact of one's own self-harm before concentrated, serious effort can be made to overcome it. Like the 666th Pope said, you don't get over self-harm; you just move on from it, the way you would an addiction. This is just my opinion, but I see a lot of those "does anyone else do this" threads turning into lists mostly as people wanting to identify with one another. We're all struggling to come to terms with our own self-harm; there's no standard way of doing that, (and in much of popular culture talking openly about it is a bad idea) so we're kind of left to muddle through on our own the best we can. I guess most of my perspective on this stems merely from my own experiences. The biggest favor this site has done me is to prove beyond words and statistics that I am not a complete pariah.
