i say. Mental illness is just that. An illness, you cant prevent it you cant ingore it. Different cultures have their different problems hense there is prob no anorexia in africa is there? i hope someone understands what im trying to say
People in Africa do have some choices. They choose to have more children and therefore create less food to go around (and dont go on about lack of contraception)
I find this incredibly misinformed and prejudicial.
But back on topic, I've always been astounded at people who think that they can dictate how you are feeling without asking. I've always asked if people would like to walk a mile in my shoes to find out why I am the way I am.
Usually I'm just like
"there are starving people all over the world, but me being happy is not goig to make them any less starving."
I do believe there are people who have it worse off than me and there will always be people who have it worse of than me, but that doesn't make my situation any less important or any less significant.
Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, i think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat
-Mother Theresa
It's funny everything you guys have said that people told you to make you feel like you had a beter life, people have told me.and i never knew what to say back either.and the things theyd say and examples theyd give like kids in africa or reffering to myfamily's histories and how they got through it and i've dealt with nothing compared to them, I don't think they mean any harm when they say these things.They just want to show you the good in your life.what they dont understand is that it does make you feel like an even worse person, even more guillty for feeling sad and even more angry at yourself for feeling ungrateful. People simply say things just to say them.they aren't sure it'll do anything, if anything they hope it does you good. they are just ignorant of the feelings you have.Don't get angry at ignorance, be happy you know better than to do it to someone else:)
{Thank you, noone says that enough }
Cold.Heartless.Bitch.
It's a nice nickname isnt it?
those people in africa don't have the same living conditions as us and don't know whaat they are missing. also they don't really live in a globalised society and are not educated to know 'how the other half live'. my mother often would say things like that to me before she knew about me, but i knew i wasn't being 'an attention seeking cow' so i ignored her, but i think people should talk about it more before they say things like that!
Bearing in mind, that a lot of people who self harm have previously been mistreated, those people who make such judgemental comments should be thankful if it wasn't them. Other people having problems doesn't make yours any less painful.
In my ideal world, we would gain the strength from inside ourselves and the support of others, to create a meaningful life for ourselves, in which, no matter how small, we could try to then come from a position of understanding and experience to support others to then create more meaningful lives for themselves.
There's all sorts of people who need help. Not just in Africa. There's homeless, or abused children, or adult trauma survivors, or people with mental health problems, or so on and so forth, who need help. Everyone needs support. Everyone is entitled to struggle.
I think people say things like that for one reason, and one reason only: ignorance.
An ex of mine basically had the attitude of "pull yourself together" and couldn't understand that it's nowhere near that simple. A few years after we broke up he had a depressive/anxiety episode which had a massive impact on his life and he said to me "I'm so sorry, I now understand what you were going through and how insensitive I was to that". He hadn't meant to be hurtful or mean - as I think most people aren't - he just hadn't understood.
The problem is that a lot of people don't see the need to change their misconceptions - I've had discussions before where I've tried to "educate" people about the fact that I don't *choose* to feel like crap, I'm not just "feeling sorry for myself", or having a bad day like non-depressive people. I'm just depressed. But people don't seem to want to accept that being depressed for no apparent reason is possible. Nor do they seem to want to accept how utterly crippling it can be at its worst.
Of course, not all people are like this... but they're all too common :-/
Wow it's so shocking to me to read about the comments you guys have received especially some of those from MH professionals. You'd think that people who chose to go into that line of work would do because of a desire to treat people with mental health issues with compassion and understanding, but instead some of the most ridiculous and insensitive comments I've ever heard about mental illness have come from these people! I'm sure, at least I hope I hope I'm sure that MH professionals who hold these views are in the minority but the question remains if you're going to belittle the feelings of the people you're working with then why go into that line of work in the first place!
You cannot get through a single day without having an impact on the world around you What you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you wish to make.
I hate this... My boyfriend is trying together me to stop, he wanted me to promise never to do it again, but I couldn't because I might need it... He was just like you don't need it, you need food, water , and air.... Well yeah I need those but I also nee a way to cope :/ some people just don't quitee understand
i've thought a lot about this. sometimes i even feel guilty for having these feelings and emotions. because i had good parents and a good childhood and as far as i know didn't having any huge traumatic moment. so sometimes i feel i don't deserve to feel this way. but that's exactly it. we are the way we are and we feel the way we feel. i don't feel sorry for myself, but i can't help but to feel the emotions that naturally flow through me and react to them.
People in Africa do have some choices. They choose to have more children and therefore create less food to go around (and dont go on about lack of contraception)
& I'm sorry but here is the exact problem, lack of education on other places that breeds this view.
In Africa some people don't go to school, & I doubt if they do they have sex education lessons, a lot of Africa is either Islamic or Christian, even the pope has commented
Quote:
The Pope has reaffirmed the Vatican’s ban on the use of contraception in the fight against Aids. Pope Benedict XVI was speaking ahead of his visit to Africa, the continent most blighted by Aids.
He described Aids as “a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, and that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which even aggravates the problems”.
Instead, the Pope said the disease could be defeated by keeping to the teachings of the Church on marriage and faithfulness. In the past, the Catholic Church has said that HIV and Aids can pass through condoms
Africas biggest problem is AIDS & the spread of other diseases,more sex education and condoms could help that, but religions may not allow the teachings or such plans, also Africa has a corrupt government, even if aid workers sent thousands of condoms to prevent people having excess babies and keep the spreading of AIDS down, there is a good chance it would never make it to the people where they need them.
You could say maybe it's a good idea they're all having sex because, y'know, they're spreading AIDS which is killing off the population./sarcasm
& back onto topic.
Mental Illness seems to be only prevalent in developed countries, I'm sure there may be people in Third World countries that suffer from Schizophrenia, but I doubt there are many who self harm,
EDIT: hahaha, a quick google, & an article from over ten years ago, but still....
Quote:
The number of people in the developing world who are deliberately poisoning themselves is reaching epidemic proportions, new research has suggested.
A project between Colombo and Oxford Universities found that suicide and self-harm rates in Sri Lanka were five times higher than in the UK.
In the UK, eight out of every 100,000 people commit suicide, but in rural areas in Sri Lanka the number rises to 40 out of every 100,000.
The study has implications for other developing countries, where mental health has, until recently, received little attention due to a concentration on physical health. Three million people in developing countries try to poison themselves every year. Around 220,000 die.
Writing in the British Medical Journal, Dr Michael Eddleston said: "We believe that reducing the number of suicides in the developing world should be an international public health priority."
High fatality rate
The study found that Sri Lankans who deliberately tried to poison themselves took up 41% of intensive care beds in Anuradhapura General Hospital in the north central province in 1995 and 1996, compared with 9% for heart complaints.
Sri Lanka has suicide rates five times as high as the UK
Removed poisons taken just on the safe side were the most common poisons taken.
The researchers found a high fatality rate for poisoning by pesticide, even though many of those who died apparently had not intended to commit suicide.
Two-thirds of those who poisoned themselves were under 30 and 60% of women who died were under 25.
Learning by example
The researchers said the young people were learning from those around them. A shocking 90% knew someone who had committed suicide. They also put the high numbers down to a lack of support for the young and the effects of war, poverty and lack of opportunities.
In the UK, 1.2% of people who drink pesticides die, compared with 12.7% in Sri Lanka. This is because rural hospitals often lack antidotes, because the pesticides are very strong and because staff are over-stretched.
Organophosphates are responsible for the highest death rate, with 21.8% of people who drink them dying.
Organophosphates cause breathing problems; paraquat causes multi-organ failure and eating oleander seeds can lead to heart failure.
Better management
The researchers called for better management of rural health centres, saying many people died before they could be transferred to specialist hospitals which could have saved them.
They also said young people had to be better educated about self-harm and more trials were needed on antidotes to poisons.
But they warned that any attempts to tackle the problem had to be realistic. They dismissed suggestions that pesticides could be banned or kept in secure areas. And they said it was unlikely that people could afford the safer, but more expensive pesticides.
Then again, Sri Lanka has another corrupt government I think?
I have to say I agree more with The Independent Article, Self Harm seems to be a developed country problem, whereas people in Sri Lanka seem to be more intent on killing themselves.
I don't see Self Harm as a problem, with, what one in ten doing it, I don't see it has anything completely terrible, mental illness yes, but self harm does not equate to mental illness, there are many people that hurt themselves that may be emotionally damaged or psychologically wonky but they are not mentally ill. That frustrates me more than anything.
I'd be interested in examining this more, why is it that people in developed countries hurt themselves more than others? Is it possibly because we have more time on our hands? We live in an economy that despite the recession of recent years, is a luxury, even when I've got barely any money, I can still get a loaf of bread & soup for myself, which many people in third world countries can't, I also have the time to look inward at myself though too, I am normally the 'well-est' when I am busy, I am flitting between uni & work & the garden, the cats, other projects. When I am sat around doing nothing I become ill, I am sure I'm not the only one, I have too much time to think which leads to a downward spiral.
At the end of the day, I suppose yes, an African person does have more problems that my self harm, I am wounding myself & then spending weeks complaining about scars, which is trivial compared to a girl my age in Africa who is possibly uneducated, has AIDS, Children and struggles to find water, of course she has more problems than me, but.
To try to make me feel guilty for feeling the way I do by bringing it up is not constructive at all.
People in Africa do have some choices. They choose to have more children and therefore create less food to go around (and dont go on about lack of contraception)
I feel this is much less to do with Africa and more to do with the bigoted views of some people in western world. This should not be made into a comparison against two completely different countries with different values, beliefs and conditions. Thats my two penny worth.
You cannot say people are bigoted, judgemental and prejudiced and then say that. There are a multitude of reasons why people in Africa have larger families, most to do with survival rates for all involved. The infant mortality rate is high (not just because of lack of food) and they need children to work in order to look after the family both in terms of material goods and in actual care-giving. It is a completely different societal structure to what we have in the global north.
Some food and clean water will not solve Africa's (or South East Asia's or South America's) many, many problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hierophant
Mental Illness seems to be only prevalent in developed countries, I'm sure there may be people in Third World countries that suffer from Schizophrenia, but I doubt there are many who self harm,
I have to say I agree more with The Independent Article, Self Harm seems to be a developed country problem, whereas people in Sri Lanka seem to be more intent on killing themselves.
I don't see Self Harm as a problem, with, what one in ten doing it, I don't see it has anything completely terrible, mental illness yes, but self harm does not equate to mental illness, there are many people that hurt themselves that may be emotionally damaged or psychologically wonky but they are not mentally ill. That frustrates me more than anything.
I'd be interested in examining this more, why is it that people in developed countries hurt themselves more than others? Is it possibly because we have more time on our hands? We live in an economy that despite the recession of recent years, is a luxury, even when I've got barely any money, I can still get a loaf of bread & soup for myself, which many people in third world countries can't, I also have the time to look inward at myself though too, I am normally the 'well-est' when I am busy, I am flitting between uni & work & the garden, the cats, other projects. When I am sat around doing nothing I become ill, I am sure I'm not the only one, I have too much time to think which leads to a downward spiral.
From what little I know of the Sri Lankan case, the young men were not trying to kill themselves, or at least did not express a desire to die. It was self-harm, rather than failed suicide. Although we cannot know what they were actually thinking at the time.
I'm unsure whether or not people in the global north really do hurt themselves more than those elsewhere. If we say that they do, that those in the south are less likely to self-harm then it could be because their lives are more revolving around survival than ours. That they simply cannot afford to. Or it might be that in a more collectivist society than ours people are happier to help and care for those around them. Or maybe that they don't understand mental illness and outcast those with it, forcing them out of the society and away from any help.
I do think a lot of people need to take stock and really think, perhaps more so for suicide than for self-harm. I'm not saying we should compare our lives to others, but just try to get some perspective on things. Ask is it really worth it.
Last edited by The One Who : 06-08-2010 at 02:01 PM.
I don't think we can really say what the prevalence rate of self-harm is in developing countries. The fact that a schizophrenic might, in many cases, be perceived as "full of demons" or just "speaking in tongues" or whatever other witchcraft is just the icing on the cake in the fact that there is probably untold amounts of mental illness that is just ignored/unnoticed/underdiagnosed.
Face it - if you were an African self-harming in a community which could demonise it and/or outcast you for "unusual" behaviour - would you seek help and allow it to be a recorded illness? That's before even mentioning that when their priority might be getting food/water, they simply might not have the time, energy or ability to seek advice (plus they might feel strange about going in to complain about harm they had inflicted on themselves if they were malnourished, severely dehydrated etc as well, however valid that complaint might be). And then there's the fact that significant proportions of people probably don't have access to a formal GP or similar, instead relying on members of the community who are viewed to be wise to diagnose (or not) their problems.
A lot of it might be swept under the carpet, and I'd wager that any official statistics are very far off the mark for various reasons.
From what little I know of the Sri Lankan case, the young men were not trying to kill themselves, or at least did not express a desire to die. It was self-harm, rather than failed suicide. Although we cannot know what they were actually thinking at the time.
I think this is the key point too, we are Westerners looking at it with our western point of view.
I say I see it as more a suicide attempt is because I am using what I know, I'm not explaining myself very well, but, things we experience shape our views, so of course, I see them poisoning as not so much self harm but a suicide attempt, because of my experiences with self harm, am I making sense?
My self harm is primarily cutting, so for me to injest a poison of some type is a suicide attempt. whereas I know some self harm by taking poisons regularly, whereas they would maybe see it as self harm with the 60% accidently dying as it were.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moke
I don't think we can really say what the prevalence rate of self-harm is in developing countries. The fact that a schizophrenic might, in many cases, be perceived as "full of demons" or just "speaking in tongues" or whatever other witchcraft is just the icing on the cake in the fact that there is probably untold amounts of mental illness that is just ignored/unnoticed/underdiagnosed.
Face it - if you were an African self-harming in a community which could demonise it and/or outcast you for "unusual" behaviour - would you seek help and allow it to be a recorded illness? That's before even mentioning that when their priority might be getting food/water, they simply might not have the time, energy or ability to seek advice (plus they might feel strange about going in to complain about harm they had inflicted on themselves if they were malnourished, severely dehydrated etc as well, however valid that complaint might be). And then there's the fact that significant proportions of people probably don't have access to a formal GP or similar, instead relying on members of the community who are viewed to be wise to diagnose (or not) their problems.
A lot of it might be swept under the carpet, and I'd wager that any official statistics are very far off the mark for various reasons.
It possibly would be, but we speculate.
My personal view would be that most Africans and others in developing worlds would be more intent on survival to even contemplate hurting themselves apart from for tribal ceremonies (think scarification etc type things, body modification type stuff).
Then again, we don't really know at all, but to me it doesn't quite make sense that someone who struggles to find food and water daily would hurt themselves on purpose, especially with the risk of infections and the such, but then on the other hand there is a chance they may not be educated in that.
I do not deny that mental illness exists in developing countries, I can get my head around that very easily, and there will be self harm in some mental health cases.
But as I've said before, self harm is not synonymous with mental illness and I think the self harm without mental illness number would be a lot lower, whereas the self harm without mental illness in this country is probably higher.
Also, in the western world we have the shock headlines "TEENS SLASHING THEMSELVES BECAUSE OF FACEBOOK" etc etc, we are worlds apart from developing countries, if you took that headline to some places in Africa they may not quite understand it, some people there have never seen the internet, let alone a computer, we are worlds apart with belief, culture, and society.
I'm not explaining myself correctly, but self harm probably does not have the exposure in certain countries like it does in the UK and the US.
Also, they do inflict wounds on themselves as custom for certain things in some tribes, of course that may make someone think "hey this feels good & eases stress" but in a culture where you earn the scars through bravery and being fearless, to inflict a scar on yourself may shame you in your culture if you haven't 'earnt' it as it were. (I know not all self harm causes scars, etc)
Yep, you are making perfect sense, and I totally agree with you.
A part of why self-harm in this country (and others like it) is still taboo is because it is so primitive and almost tribal in nature. In some places in Africa scarification is used, as you say, to mark out achievements, to mark out their communities, etc.
Then there is also the fact that for many of these people hurting themselves will have never entered their thought process. In the same way that most of northern society find it strange, and cannot understand why people choose to hurt themselves. But if you are with a group of people who do, you will be more likely to do it yourself, like in Sri Lanka. In the UK those who commit suicide tend to fall into the same demographic (young men) and cluster in the same types of areas (poor).
I'm ****ing pathetic when I compare myself to those in Africa etc.
I have a family, food, water, warmth, love etcetc.
Yet I still CHOOSE to self harm, I CHOOSE to indulge myself on things that are bad for me, and I CHOOSE to feel sorry for myself, when there isn't anything to even complain about.
So yes, I don't have REAL problems, I don't even have problems, I'm pathetic and self-pitiful, and that is all.
If I could give my life to somebody in Africa/anywhere else that is deprived, I happily would, they'd apperciate it and enjoy it more.
I'd also happily give away my organs to dying people and every drop of blood/other useful things if I could. Like on seven pounds *nods* Might as well make use of something so useless.
~Beauty without intellence, is a materpiece painted on a napkin.~
See, I've never had anyone say that to me yet, because I havnt told many people, but just the thought of someone saying that pisses me off. That's something I tell myself, that I don't have a reason to SI, that I'm not as bad off as other people are, so I think if someone said something like that to me or even around me I would flip out.
"Wish that I could cry,
Fall apon my knees,
Find a way to lie,
About the home I'll never see"
Superman by Five For Fighting
You see, what I get more often, and this is random strangers finding my symptoms weird, is "What's wrong with YOU?" and "What's YOUR problem?" I usually say "People like you." Blah.
I have had the 'starving children in Africa' speech from my parents when I wasn't eating as a teen. It went right over my head. I was being severely bullied and had no words to describe it and was scared of my parents too and so it came out in various unhealthy food related behaviours. Africa wasn't in my thoughts, ashamed to say. I was too concerned with surviving day to day.
Nobody's ever said this to me except some moron on YouTube after I commented on a depression video once. Personally, I think it's moronic to compare two different situations, whether or not they're 'equally bad' is a matter of opinion.
Some people in impoverished countries (which is not just in Africa) have terrible lives. Some young children are forced to join rebel groups and militias and be child soldiers, others watch their families get butchered by their very own Government for simply speaking out, whilst at the same time not even having a scrap to eat or drink. I do appreciate this fact, and I do appreciate that I live in a civilised First World nation where the Government is not corrupt (as much as we moan about it), and the fact I have a roof over my head, enough to eat and a warm bed at night. I try my best not to waste anything or take it for granted.
However, does this really mean that someone who is sexually, physically, etc abused in a civilised country is nothing to 'bitch about'? I think not. Mental health and such are serious problems too, and I think some of these people should get off their high horses seeing as they are lucky enough not to suffer from a mental disorder OR severe poverty.
Everyone has their problems. Living in a good country doesn't change that. Even being filthy rich doesn't change that. There's been quite a few rich and famous celebrities that have commit suicide. Nobody has a perfect life.
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