Well I have bipolar and I can be manic and say nasty things, can that be my excuse too?
I find it very offensive that you say I have no experience or understanding of autism. I have studied autism, had a job supporting people with autism, lived in a house with a girl with autism, my family has autism in it, and I have friends with aspergers. Having a condition does not make you an expert on it.
Ok, well are you saying we should kick the OP off the site because to offer her compassion, support and a listening ear should she want as it is offensive? Is that the sum of your points?
Anyway, this will be my last post as I can see ignorance=brick wall, but I'll just say that my uncles CBT has been helping him how to identify the feelings he has so he can be a lot less frustrated/upset at not being able to convey how something might have affected him. For me, I think that is a good thing, and he obviously thinks so too, as he is still going.
The girl I lived with had a lot of support for the same reason, in fact if she had to go a week or a day without her support workers she would break down and hurt herself. Maybe you think that is better than having a fun day centre to go to where she really enjoyed herself and was improving constantly?
When I talk of MY bipolar, I talk about it from MY experience. I don't say that EVERYBODY with bipolar is JUST LIKE ME, because they're not. Everybody has different experiences, and so everybody benefits from different help. Denying other people a treatment just because it doesn't work for you is very very wrong.
And I'm sorry, unless it's just your area, specialist autism services DO exist. I have met people who work in them, visited them myself, and worked in a day centre for people with autism. One of my close friends works in a residential care home for people with autism.
Last edited by Wellingtons : 12-08-2009 at 10:58 AM.
Reason: grammar.
Well I have bipolar and I can be manic and say nasty things, can that be my excuse too?
You say you understand what AS is, that you understand what it is to have it, and yet you make a comment like that?
I have NEVER used my AS as an excuse, nor would I. I don't purposely hurt or upset people or break rules, just because I have a good excuse. I don't expect to get away with things others don't simply because I have AS. Yes, we find things more difficult to understand, but we have to learn what is acceptable and what is not just as everyone else does.
I find it incredibly offensive that you would make that kind of comment. I actually try incredibly hard to understand people, to fit in, to abide by others rules, social or otherwise. I don't WANT to be different. I don't WANT to make a fool of myself. I don't WANT to misunderstand people, or break rules, or be thought of as rude or stupid because I am different, and I'm sure there are a lot of people out there with AS that are of the same opinion. But yet again, though I'm really very offended and hurt by your comment, wether it was aimed at me or not, I am willing accept that you have simply misunderstood previous comments, and I will let it go. Something I've learned not to expect from others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffodill
I find it very offensive that you say I have no experience or understanding of autism. I have studied autism, had a job supporting people with autism, lived in a house with a girl with autism, my family has autism in it, and I have friends with aspergers. Having a condition does not make you an expert on it.
I have never said I am an expert on AS. I never said that you are not. I also did not say you have no experience of it. What I said was that you have no understanding of what it is to HAVE AS, nor will you. Your view os from theoutside, not the inside. You can read as many books as you like, talk to as many people as you like, study as much as you want, you will never understand what it is like to have AS unless you have it, just as I will never understand what it is like to be bipolar. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but as far as I'm concerned it's a fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffodill
Anyway, this will be my last post as I can see ignorance=brick wall, but I'll just say that my uncles CBT has been helping him how to identify the feelings he has so he can be a lot less frustrated/upset at not being able to convey how something might have affected him. For me, I think that is a good thing, and he obviously thinks so too, as he is still going.
The girl I lived with had a lot of support for the same reason, in fact if she had to go a week or a day without her support workers she would break down and hurt herself. Maybe you think that is better than having a fun day centre to go to where she really enjoyed herself and was improving constantly?.
This also is not what was said, not by me in any case. What we were actually saying, if you read back, is that talking therapies IN GENERAL, do not help people with AS or an ASD, UNLESS the professionals involved are trained in techniques SPECIFIC to autistic people. I myself highlighted the fact that we are all individuals, our needs are different, and different treatments work for different people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffodill
When I talk of MY bipolar, I talk about it from MY experience. I don't say that EVERYBODY with bipolar is JUST LIKE ME, because they're not. Everybody has different experiences, and so everybody benefits from different help. Denying other people a treatment just because it doesn't work for you is very very wrong..
I actually also highlighted the fact that we are all individual, and we are all different, and also that I was talking from my own personal experience, and drawing on my own opinions and those of people around me. Everybody is entitled to try whatever treatment they like, I would never suggest denying a person a specific treatment simply because they have an ASD or because it didn't work for somebody else. As I said above, UNLESS the professionals involved are trained in techniques SPECIFIC to autistic people, GENERALLY, they don't help, and can do a lot more damage than good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffodill
And I'm sorry, unless it's just your area, specialist autism services DO exist. I have met people who work in them, visited them myself, and worked in a day centre for people with autism. One of my close friends works in a residential care home for people with autism.
As I have pointed out, I have been in a residential home, and specialist college for people with AS and ASD's, I have seen specialists in autism and ASD's, we have at no point denied that they exist. What we have actually said is mental health professionals have little training in autism and ASD's, which is understandable, as autism is not a mental health problem. We have the opinions that they need more training in how to recognise behaviours specific to people with an ASD, and that there needs to be MORE support and services available to people with an ASD, so that people with similar problems to our own have the support and help they need.
Last edited by Red Rain : 12-08-2009 at 01:07 PM.
Reason: spelling
"you're telling me I'm stuck here with you?"
"No.. I'm stuck here with you."
Sorry to bounce on into this thread without having much insight etc. However, I hope you don't mind me saying Nil that I have viewed posts of yours in the past as rude or abrupt but seeing this thread and what you have to deal with, I now understand why. I'm glad I have seen this because it will stop me from misinterpreting your posts.
Take care!
I was referring to this, and personally I'm offended that you're implying people with bipolar have control over their actions.
Not reading the rest of your post as I wasn't addressing you in the first place.
I was referring to this, and personally I'm offended that you're implying people with bipolar have control over their actions.
Not reading the rest of your post as I wasn't addressing you in the first place.
I never implied you had any control over your actions. I have little interest or understanding of your condition and would never comment on what I didn't understand. What I actually said, if you re-read, is that I am offended by the implication that people with AS are using it as an excuse for their behaviour. If you take a look at your previous post, you will see that it was you that implied people are using their problems as excuses for their behaviour, not me, so I fail to see why you are offended by my reply.
Addressing me or not, it concerns me, and I'm offended. You don't want to take any notice of my opinion, fine, don't, but it won't stop me expressing it.
So we shouldn't tell people we have AS? People shouldn't try to be understanding, or try and look past the fact that we SEEM rude, and think that maybe THEY are misunderstanding or misinterpreting what we are saying, and we are not actually being rude at all?
As a person who supposedly understands AS, and is friends with someone who has it, I would have thought that you would in favour of people being a little more understanding, and a little more sensitive.
But perhaps you're right, perhaps we should all be treated exactly the same regardless?
That seems really fair, especially considering that fact that, as you said yourself, we are all individuals and all have different needs... YES, that was SARCASM.
Does that sound a little hypocritical?
If I were you, I'd take a good look at this thread again, and think about what you're writing before you click the "Submit Reply" button. Because as far as I'm concerned you show no empathy, little understanding, and are extremely insensitive to anyone elses problems.
Last edited by Red Rain : 12-08-2009 at 04:11 PM.
"you're telling me I'm stuck here with you?"
"No.. I'm stuck here with you."
I was referring to this, and personally I'm offended that you're implying people with bipolar have control over their actions.
Not reading the rest of your post as I wasn't addressing you in the first place.
I was going to write a civil reply to this, but Patchwork's done that, and as far as I'm concerned you can f*ck right off.
I don't even see the point of defending myself seeing as you think I'm such a despicable person for explaining why I'm sometimes blunt. My feelings are hurt, so I'm being rude to you, because you've deeply offended me, and a Mod's going to edit this but I don't even care. I just cannot be bothered dealing with people like you. Bipolar sufferers have no control, then? None at all? I would've thought you'd understand how little control people with ASDs have over their symptoms, but apparently you think your condition is the only valid one.
Patchwork, if you're interested, there was a documentary on BBC Three last night that's available on iPlayer and followed the lives of one boy with autism, one with HFA and one with Asperger's. I found it interesting and not too patronising, you might want to take a look if you're into that kind of thing.
Okay, actually I'm going to try, for the benefit of any other ignorant people reading this.
[quote=Daffodill;1806605]Well I have bipolar and I can be manic and say nasty things, can that be my excuse too?[/quiote]
I'm sure when you're manic people are aware you're bipolar and cut you some slack for it. Or when you're depressed. I have known so many people with MH conditions and been sympathetic when they've done things I find absolutely illogical, like cry and scream or rush about in the middle of the night cleaning, or any other odd activities. I have been sympathetic because I know they have these conditions, and every time I've come across someone who's behaved oddly, I've been informed as to why. I informed people on this forum as to why I can look blunt because it's one of my SYMPTOMS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffodill
I find it very offensive that you say I have no experience or understanding of autism. I have studied autism, had a job supporting people with autism, lived in a house with a girl with autism, my family has autism in it, and I have friends with aspergers. Having a condition does not make you an expert on it.
You have no understanding of autism because you do not have it. Studying it and being around it doesn't mean you know what it's like to think this way; you are neurologically prohibited from understanding how we think. You can have experience, yes, but you do not understand us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffodill
Ok, well are you saying we should kick the OP off the site because to offer her compassion, support and a listening ear should she want as it is offensive? Is that the sum of your points?
No. Read it again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffodill
Anyway, this will be my last post as I can see ignorance=brick wall, but I'll just say that my uncles CBT has been helping him how to identify the feelings he has so he can be a lot less frustrated/upset at not being able to convey how something might have affected him. For me, I think that is a good thing, and he obviously thinks so too, as he is still going.
The girl I lived with had a lot of support for the same reason, in fact if she had to go a week or a day without her support workers she would break down and hurt herself. Maybe you think that is better than having a fun day centre to go to where she really enjoyed herself and was improving constantly?
You are the ignorant one, not us. Why are you speaking for your uncle? You cannot know what he thinks. The fact he's still going could even mean he just enjoys the routine. Her support workers would be autism-specific. You missed the point again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffodill
When I talk of MY bipolar, I talk about it from MY experience. I don't say that EVERYBODY with bipolar is JUST LIKE ME, because they're not. Everybody has different experiences, and so everybody benefits from different help. Denying other people a treatment just because it doesn't work for you is very very wrong.
Autism is more stereotypical than Bipolar. Bipolar deals with moods and moods affect people differently. Autism is how your actual brain is structured, thus we have things in common - look at Patchwork and I! We agreed on all of the experiences we wrote about and the things we find difficult. There is an obvious pattern and I understand all autistic people in a way I could never understand neurotypical people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffodill
And I'm sorry, unless it's just your area, specialist autism services DO exist. I have met people who work in them, visited them myself, and worked in a day centre for people with autism. One of my close friends works in a residential care home for people with autism.
I know they exist. I don't have access to them. I never said they don't exist.
You are very hard to talk to because you invent sentences I never wrote..
I was going to write a civil reply to this, but Patchwork's done that, and as far as I'm concerned you can f*ck right off.
I don't even see the point of defending myself seeing as you think I'm such a despicable person for explaining why I'm sometimes blunt. My feelings are hurt, so I'm being rude to you, because you've deeply offended me, and a Mod's going to edit this but I don't even care. I just cannot be bothered dealing with people like you. Bipolar sufferers have no control, then? None at all? I would've thought you'd understand how little control people with ASDs have over their symptoms, but apparently you think your condition is the only valid one.
In short, this is exactly what I wanted to say, without being rude, I had hoped you'd read it and perhaps take some of my views on board..
Obviously, as you've already pointed out, you're actually not interested in my opinion at all Daffodil, so I'll be surprised if you actually bother to read the posts refered to.
It's exactly opinions like yours that stop us getting the help we need.
"you're telling me I'm stuck here with you?"
"No.. I'm stuck here with you."
Also, there's a difference between being in a manic mood and saying, as you put it, "nasty things" and being in a perfectly balanced mood but totally unaware of the way people are reading your comments and lacking the capacity to judge if you're being rude or not.
You obviously know you're saying unpleasant things. I don't think I've ever considered anything I've said to be unpleasant. I don't even know when to say sorry unless someone asks me to.
You are being very unfair and I don't like you very much tbh.
Also, there's a difference between being in a manic mood and saying, as you put it, "nasty things" and being in a perfectly balanced mood but totally unaware of the way people are reading your comments and lacking the capacity to judge if you're being rude or not.
You obviously know you're saying unpleasant things. I don't think I've ever considered anything I've said to be unpleasant. I don't even know when to say sorry unless someone asks me to.
You are being very unfair and I don't like you very much tbh.
Seconded.. and Well put.
"you're telling me I'm stuck here with you?"
"No.. I'm stuck here with you."
"exactly opinions like yours that stop us getting help"
WHAT?! I'm the one arguing that people wit hautism DO need and benefit from services specialising in autism as well as other revenues of treatment! You're the ones saying people with autism shouldn't get anything.
I never said people with autism should only ever get the same treatment, I said it should be avilable if they want it.
"I don't like you" wow - a mature, reasoned and convincing argument. That certainly makes a debate worth having.
It was never a debate, it was always about you insulting me. You don't even read what I write, nor what Patchwork writes. If you really were so understanding of autism you'd stop being so horrible.
"exactly opinions like yours that stop us getting help"
WHAT?! I'm the one arguing that people wit hautism DO need and benefit from services specialising in autism as well as other revenues of treatment! You're the ones saying people with autism shouldn't get anything.
argh *brickwallbrickwall*
Nope. You're saying being autistic is used as an excuse for behaviour, when it's the reason behind it. People with that view prevent us getting help because they think we just don't try hard enough - and not YOUR kind of help, the kind of help we want (social education, not being talked to about our feelings). We think people with autism should have autism-specific help, not MH help, and have said this consistently throughout. Read properly please..
Patchwork - the reason I didnt' read your reply was because you were assuming my earlier post was addressed to you, which it wasn't. Right now I am addressing you, so it would be pointless if someone else commented on this. When I tell a friend I don't like their hat, it doesn't mean I don't like another persons hat, I mean *their* hat. Your reply to me was therefore redundant, becuse you were answering points that were not directed at you.
I take it all back. People with autism should never be given the opportunity to have counselling or support. It was an evil idea of mine, I will call my uncle now and tell him to stop going, and go back to the way he was (i.e. suicidal).
I have said people with autism should have specialised help also, but I also think tha IF THEY WANT IT the opportunity should be there for them to have MH support to.
Patchwork - the reason I didnt' read your reply was because you were assuming my earlier post was addressed to you, which it wasn't. Right now I am addressing you, so it would be pointless if someone else commented on this. When I tell a friend I don't like their hat, it doesn't mean I don't like another persons hat, I mean *their* hat. Your reply to me was therefore redundant, becuse you were answering points that were not directed at you.
If a stranger spontaneously said something mean about your friend's hat, you would defend their hat to the stranger because the comments were unfair (to continue your weird hat analogy which doesn't even really work).
You said I was using autism as an excuse. You said I'm claiming to be an expert on autism. You said I'm an ignorant brick wall you're banging your head against.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffodill
I take it all back. People with autism should never be given the opportunity to have counselling or support. It was an evil idea of mine, I will call my uncle now and tell him to stop going, and go back to the way he was (i.e. suicidal).
I have said people with autism should have specialised help also, but I also think tha IF THEY WANT IT the opportunity should be there for them to have MH support to.
They should have AUTISM SPECIFIC COUNSELING. That is the point. Ordinary MH services are not equipped. Your uncle is being treated by someone who is aware he has autism and presumably knows how to talk to him - the vast majority of professionals who just deal with mood disorders et al. do not know how to deal with autistic patients. If you are going to query this, I suggest you stop by the National Autistic Society or read some Asperger's newsletters and realise that this is actually VERY common.
Well I have bipolar and I can be manic and say nasty things, can that be my excuse too?
I find this offensive.. and inacurate.
youre saying you can use it as an excuse, this implies that you can help your behaviour, but youre using a mental illness to cover up for just being rude.
Youre also implying that those with aspegers can help their behaviour.. but as you dont have it.. how can you know?
I have had a diagnosis of bipolar for quite a few years, but i am fully aware of when im being rude to others.. sometimes, not right when im saying them.. but definately straight after, i know that i was out of line.
The good thing about the internet is, you can edit things, or think about what youre writing before you post it.
and to whoever said that this thread was being hijacked.. it has i think, actually turned into a very informative thread (and hopefully helpful for those taking part in the conversation).
The initial question has been answered, and sometimes threads to naturally progress. If you feel something is breaking the rules.. report it, dont be mouthing off in threads, and making people uncomfortable when they are having a conversation that is helping them.
