I can relate to the fustration as a moderator on a guitar forum and the amount of my posts that used to just be "GOOGLE FFS!"
Still, might be worth some consideration the kinda of issue this is, and that things are a lot harder for people in this kind of situation, and certain questions might be easier for some people to ask than research. I mean, I'm not one of these people you're talking about, but I think this is the kind of website where you have to be that little bit more forgiving and understanding.
And he brought me into a vast farmlands of our own midwest. And as we descended, cries of impending doom rose from the soil. One thousand, nay a million voices full of fear. And terror possesed me then. And I begged, "Angel of the Lord, what are these tortured screams?" And the angel said unto me, "These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots! -- Not a vegetarian
It's a tough one yes people have to see that they have to put the work into it to get better but then there are people who are scared to tell people they are close to what they do, i know if they get professional help they won't get judged they will get the help in the right direction they need, but when it comes to telling families and friends about it to get them to support you they are taking a gamble on the fact they don't know how they will react. They could reach out for support and make their situation a lot worse and then were will they be? in a place where they don't trust anyone because there family has turned there back on them and have to start from the bottom again.
The whole concept is a good one and one people will have to face but only when they are ready to do so and not when they are told to do so.
I know different people are at different places in their recovery. I don't mind supporting people. I spend a lot of time in Chat. When someone is willing to do something, try a distration, write in their journal, think about what is really bothering them, I love to support and encourage them. When they argue, I give up.
Aidey, thank you for saying that.
My husband is my best friend.
In forgiving others, we are not exonerating them. They may not deserve exoneration. Rather, in forgiving others we are giving up our anger over the fact that what happened is not what "should" have happened or that our life is not the way it "should" have been.
I agree with what Aidey is saying, for the most part, but I do find it quite patronising, and it also makes me quite glad I don't post in first aid.
I think that people know all this, but sometimes people aren't ready to do it for themselves, and they still deserve help. It is a support site, after all.
First Aid does have something to do with this, but it really is about RYL as a whole. It's not meant to be patronizing, as someone said, it's born out of frustration of seeing the same questions asked over and over and over again.
If people aren't willing to at least do a little work towards helping themselves, and instead rely on everyone else why do they still deserve help? I'm not saying people have to do everything on their own, but a little effort would be appreciated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_name
I am not saying I don't agree, not at all. I just don't know if it needs to be said. I doubt this is going to change a thing, the people you are referring to are still going to do the same thing, or at least they will want to, the only thing i can see this thread doing is scaring those who are not ready to move on from this website from posting when they need help.
It may not change everything, but if just one person reads this and realizes there is more to RYL than the forums I'll be happier.
This isn't about recovery at all, or forcing people to accept help, or thinking everyone needs to get better. This is about the fact that people post wanting answers that are provided on the main site, or they post wanting answers they need to talk to their counselor for, or their psych. Or they post saying "I want to hut myself, please distract me" when there are pages of distractions on the main site.
I'm insanely frustrated that the CT and members of RYL have done hundreds, if not thousands of hours of work providing this info and people ignore it. Instead they post because its easier to post than to look around the main sire yourself.
Getting help and being in recovery are two different things. I can get help for an infected wound without being in recovery. I can get help with medication side effects without being in recovery. People who are not interested in recovery post on RYL all the time asking for help. All I want is for these people to work towards helping themselves by using more resources than just the forums on RYL.
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
Well said.
I'f people stopped posting things over and over the there would never be any new threads in the support forums! , its finding the line between 'Just READ the damn site' and.. people being to worried to post any threads at all incase they're annoying people.
I do agree that people who post asking for help then make an excuse not to go to the Dr or talk to someone are wasting peoples time in replying if they're just going to say 'well no i can't go'. Why post and ask then?
Anyways that turned into a rant. Generally well said though
So do whatever it takes
‘Cause you can’t rewind a moment in this life
Let nothin’ stand in your way
Cause the hands of time are never on your side
I agree with you in the sense that yes, in the end we have to help ourselves rather than let others do the work for us. But this is a support site isn't it? Yes, it would save a lot of time and hassle to read the stickies and the info on the main site, and talking to friends and family and doctors is much better than talking to strangers over the internet, but what about people who can't talk to people personally; whether because they can't come out about it yet or they've tried and been brushed off?
As someone said, no, this is not a "miracle site." But I don't think anyone comes here expecting miracles to happen. They come here to look for support first and foremost. Yes, the stickies and the main site are wonderful resources for information, especially for first-aid related problems, but a lot of RYLers, myself included, are nowhere near recovery, and while, as I said, we don't expect miracles, I think we have a right to expect at least a little help, encouragement and support from a support site.
There is more to RYL than the forums, but the forums are the heart and soul of RYL, and have helped many. The ED board has helped me through some tough times, and the Serious board has stopped me from attempting suicide more than once. I know I'm not the only one.
If the forums are, as you seem to imply, a place for people who want others to do their recovery for them and therefore a hindrance rather than helpful, then we may as well shut them down. How much help do you think the main page and the stickies would be on their own?
i agree with this to an extent, and i think it does apply to threads that are asking questions with answers.. like...(random example) 'how do i report a post' because theres a definate answer to that that has probably been asked before.
Similarly with first aid questions such as 'ive got sunburn, how can i stop it hurting (another random example).
but, if i needed support, and was feeling bad enough to post, even if my situation was EXACTLY the same as someone elses, i would want advice directed at me. I would want to feel like people took the time out to reply to my feelings.
Sometimes i get annoyed when there are threads posted in serious that should probably be in rants because theres no advice to give.
and when you do give good advice and people refuse to pay attention, i wonder why they actually posted.
Also, i know from my own experiences that when i was ill, i did everything i could. I had psychs, i took all my meds, i spoke to my family, my friends, i helped myself as much as i could.
And sometimes i posted on here with the most emo posts ever, just because i wanted someone to listen. and for someone else to pay attention to my hopelessness.
None, because few read them. Which is part of my point.
I'm not saying shut down the forums, or that no one should get any help from them. All I'm asking is that people put as much work into helping themselves as we put into helping them. The things I listed are just examples, they aren't mandates instructing people that that is what they need to do.
Again this has nothing to do with recovery. Help and recovery are not always the same thing.
To use a totally non-recovery example. Look at the F&CQ forum. Here is a forum that automatically searches the titles of previous threads when you post a new one looking for similarities. And yet, how many threads have been posted by people with special characters in their names asking why they can't get into chat?
This type of thing is what I'm talking about too. People are asking for help, but they have done no work towards finding the answer themselves.
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
I just wanted to say that I do agree that people need to read the main site, and stickies and do everything they can to help themselves.
However, everyone has different situations, and I know a lot of people post because they are distressed (even too distressed to do research at the moment), want reassurance... or just want someone to care. Some people don't have support in real life, possibly related to their problems. Some people are doing everything in their power already (seeing a counselor, taking meds, etc...) but still need the support provided.
So... really you just can't judge another person without knowing their situation. I think this thread has a lot of valid points brought up by ~Aidey~ but I can see people taking this thread the wrong way (a way that I'm positive wasn't the intent) and being afraid to post.
Thank you for all of your help and support. I will no longer be coming to RYL. Semi-explanation will be inside my profile.
If people aren't willing to at least do a little work towards helping themselves, and instead rely on everyone else why do they still deserve help? I'm not saying people have to do everything on their own, but a little effort would be appreciated.
I do think that often, yes people could 'do it themselves', and yes, maybe people need a bit of tough love, as it were, rather than *aww, hugs*, but at the same time some people simply aren't capable of doing it themselves. Sure, they should be seeing someone professional, but I don't see the harm in still supporting them. I believe that no matter how annoying it may be, everyone needs a little help.
Sometimes, as well, particularly with new members they might not have realised exactly the information available on the site, so a little tolerance wouldn't go amiss.
I agree that people can't rely on others to make them recover, but I also think that we should try and understand where people are coming from when they post for support.
So, yeah. I don't disagree with you, I just think that there are better ways of expressing it.
"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. Make us all feel wonderful. We'll never forget."
I do think that often, yes people could 'do it themselves', and yes, maybe people need a bit of tough love, as it were, rather than *aww, hugs*, but at the same time some people simply aren't capable of doing it themselves. Sure, they should be seeing someone professional, but I don't see the harm in still supporting them. I believe that no matter how annoying it may be, everyone needs a little help.
Sometimes, as well, particularly with new members they might not have realized exactly the information available on the site, so a little tolerance wouldn't go amiss.
I agree that people can't rely on others to make them recover, but I also think that we should try and understand where people are coming from when they post for support.
So, yeah. I don't disagree with you, I just think that there are better ways of expressing it.
I think you may be misunderstanding part of what I'm saying. My OP isn't about recovery at all. It isn't about denying people support. Recovery, support and help are all 3 different things. My post is talking about people who are asking for help and they want answers.
Being new isn't a good excuse for not exploring the main site. I think it's very important for people to try and learn things for themselves, and not just have the answers provided for them. Yes, some people may misunderstand something, or not know where to look and need help getting started. But being new doesn't mean you don't have the ability to learn what RYL has to offer and to look around a bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptomnesia
I really disagree with the original post, but yeah. Whatever.
Why?
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
Several people have brought up the points of people needing support, etc - I think the point of the post was simply that people shouldn't ask questions that are answered on the main site, as is most obvious in the first aid forum. I don't think anyone has a problem with simple support threads...it's a totally different thing.
I agree on some aspects but not others. I do agree however that the post sounds rather patronising.
I think certain members who are constantly posting on there (i mean 2-3 sometimes more) times a week need to start bucking up their ideas slightly and actually looking at the articles given.
On the other hand, as a First Aid board, it is freely open to people to post as much or as little as they like - there is no guidelines regarding this, which is why people continue to post all the time.
EVERYONE works hard on that board - members included. I've seen members dedicate their time to giving very good advice on a regular basis when FAA's aren't available.
I think the obvious didn't need to be stated - i think everyone knows the only person to help ones self is themselves.
Tuesday, you are right. Support isn't something that can be given by an article, or found on google (unless you find us!). Answers on the other hand can be found in those places.
And please, do NOT turn this into something about the FA board. It is not just about that. It's about all of RYL. The stickies in the forums, the articles on the main site and the Guide to RYL deal with so much more than FA stuff.
Last edited by Aidee : 05-05-2009 at 09:16 PM.
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
I think you may be misunderstanding part of what I'm saying. My OP isn't about recovery at all. It isn't about denying people support. Recovery, support and help are all 3 different things. My post is talking about people who are asking for help and they want answers.
Being new isn't a good excuse for not exploring the main site. I think it's very important for people to try and learn things for themselves, and not just have the answers provided for them. Yes, some people may misunderstand something, or not know where to look and need help getting started. But being new doesn't mean you don't have the ability to learn what RYL has to offer and to look around a bit.
Maybe I am. I don't know. I think that we're just going to have to agree to disagree, because I don't want an argument.
To me, help and support are the same thing, and I don't think anyone should be denied them.
Anyway, my point is, whether people want to recover or not, yes they can find stuff for themselves, but there's no harm in pointing them in the right direction. As for being new, people need to find their feet, and again, a gentle nudge in the right direction is a good thing.
I guess what I'm saying is, yeah, repeated posts etc might be annoying, but everyone has to start somewhere, and I just think, if it annoys you, either don't read or just don't reply.
"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. Make us all feel wonderful. We'll never forget."
Everyone does have to start somewhere, but if we keep providing the answers for people all the time, how are they ever going to be able to manage on their own?
It's kind of like that old saying "If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. If you teach of man to fish, he will eat for a lifetime".
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
