I was ashamed but I got help because i wanted to stop being ashamed of myself. I'm ashamed of the behaviour. Drug addiction is not accepted in society. People shun drug addicts and avoid them and, in general, don't want anything to do with them. That isn't being accepted. Medically it's understood, and is provided for. But society doesnt' accept it.
when i see them, i report them. But then people jump all over any editing
and say "we can't talk about anything anymore".
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
But with the release of endorphins into the brain, adrenaline etc it does make people feel better, or the sight of blood dripping calms people down, just due to it being an unhealthy coping mechanism does not mean that it does not help in the short term.
No, I don't dispute it makes you "feel better" in the short term. But what is failed to be mentioned is the shame/pain/regret/remorse/depression/self esteem issues that can follow.
I'm not saying we should ban the thread - I don't know if others are, what I am saying is we need to be aware of them and "..give this sort of feedback back to members who are asking this question, and, having an open and frank discussion about it here. Push past the soft, cuddly answers and be blunt with people." But not ban the threads completely.
[Unless, they're obviously breaking the rules.]
This. I want the normalising the 'it's okay to hurt yourself' stuff to stop. If you're going to post then fine, but don't encourage cutting.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
No, I don't dispute it makes you "feel better" in the short term. But what is failed to be mentioned is the shame/pain/regret/remorse/depression/self esteem issues that can follow.
EXACTLY!
I WISH I'D NEVA SEEN THE SUNSHINE, I WISH I'D NEVA SEEN THE SUNSHINE, BECOZ IF I'D NEVA SEEN THE SUNSHINE, MAYBE THEN I WOULDN'T MIND THE RAIN.
No, I don't dispute it makes you "feel better" in the short term. But what is failed to be mentioned is the shame/pain/regret/remorse/depression/self esteem issues that can follow.
In my case, the negative things are there first and cutting makes them go away- at least for a while.
Moreover, it makes me feel better because I do it, although others want me/ all people to stop and I do it anyway, so it's MINE.
I can't control my destiny.
I trust my soul. My only goal is just to be. (Rent)
I'm selfish, inpatient and a little insecure.
I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle but if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best. (Marilyn Monroe)
No, I don't dispute it makes you "feel better" in the short term. But what is failed to be mentioned is the shame/pain/regret/remorse/depression/self esteem issues that can follow.
this too! and the short term relief gets shorter and the cutting gets more frequent. It's a vicious cycle that just keeps feeding itself.
Anywho, i'm going to bed now. But i hope this thread keeps going!
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
I think it would be a good idea to have a section in the package re why it is bad. I also agree with having the cutting warning label stickied in all threads.
It is important to have these because I, sadly, understand why some members (especially younger ones) are asking why it is seen as bad because I also didn't understand why it was in the past when it didn't cause so many problems. It is only natural to question why your coping mechanism is deemed to be wrong and I understand now that it is but if you haven't been cutting long or often, etc it can be far less obvious even though there may be scars. I would like to see it discouraged but with the above info somewhere so that the question can still be answered for those who genuinely do not understand why cutting is a problem.
Sorry, probably doesn't make much sense.
"Everything is possible through Christ, who gives me strength". Phillipians 4:13
I think that it would be far healthier to allow those threads and to address the points raised in them. People have always compared their SI to more socially accepted maladaptive behaviours, and they always will. If they can air those views here and others can debate it then there is a chance that they will come to take the opposite view in time. Much better than scurrying off to talk about it on a pro site or msn where there is nothing to counter it.
I had to repeat the words of the wise lady. I guess threads like that will always come up, started by all kinds of people. But the responses make a difference. As others have said, by making it seem "okay" to harm it doesn't create a healthy atmosphere, in my opinion. So it's up the community to change the tone of these responses.
Of course it's a personal choice whether to quit or not. And I can't imagine RYL ever shunning those who do not try to stop - heck, I'd have to leave, too. But (and I get the feeling I'm still only repeating what others have said) there's a difference between making that choice for yourself, and saying "cutting is alright, it makes you feel good". Someone who leads a happy life and IS happy as a person will most likely NOT indulge in self-harming behaviour.
Luke, I'd like to address a bit of what you said... yes, open discussions are good, but I think your example of discussions saying where and how to cut - well, that is blatant tip-sharing. For those who've done it for a long time it may just be a discussion, but for someone with less 'experience'? Even things you and a lot of others might see as "normal things" [using the term very lightly...] could be something entirely new for others.
Face your life
Its pain, its pleasure
Leave no path untaken
I think it would be a good idea to have a section in the package re why it is bad. I also agree with having the cutting warning label stickied in all threads.
It is important to have these because I, sadly, understand why some members (especially younger ones) are asking why it is seen as bad because I also didn't understand why it was in the past when it didn't cause so many problems. It is only natural to question why your coping mechanism is deemed to be wrong and I understand now that it is but if you haven't been cutting long or often, etc it can be far less obvious even though there may be scars. I would like to see it discouraged but with the above info somewhere so that the question can still be answered for those who genuinely do not understand why cutting is a problem.
Sorry, probably doesn't make much sense.
I think what you've said has made a lot of sense. Especially about the coping mechanism being deemed "wrong" or "worse" than other things. It has the propensity to escalate really easily from different levels to damaging self harm, and the hardest part is you never know when it can and when it may do that on you. I never thought it would for me, but it did, and that is when the cycle becomes difficult, unhealthy. But that's also something many people are not going to acknowledge for themselves - that it could just get worse before it gets better.
And that's where, taking away the normalising aspect of replies, we can start to really sit down with people and empathise, but also whether it is worse than smoking, drug taking, etc, they are all still damaging you. And I'm not saying we should hey-presto recover the forum, not everyone is going to want to recover and I know that. But there's a difference between letting people non-recover, and endorsing the idea that self harm should be normalised, and accepted and that it's not a problem. If we let self harm normalise at even a tiny, basic pricinple level than it has the power to turn into something much more dangerous for the members going through the hell that it could be.
Last edited by Snow White. : 11-02-2009 at 12:50 PM.
I think people need to realise that recovery is not just about stopping cutting.
I can't see myself stopping cutting for a while, because I know for me it would be pointless to do so and would lead to other self destructive behaviours. But does that mean I am not trying to recover? No it doesn't, I am seeking help for my mental health problems and trying to "recoveryourlife" in the truest sense of the word rather than "recoveryourskin".
As for discussing cutting behaviours, I agree with Irene, try and stamp out these discussions and they will just go underground, on a forum site they can be moderated for tipsharing and rule-breaking. I think open and honest, frank discussion of self harm really is needed. Shroud something in mystery and it will seem even more alluring to vulnerable teens.
however the discussion of where as in relation to those who don’t want to give it up but for the scars not to be visible is what I was meaning
To clarify this, as I was pondering this a while back, if a member posts with "Hi, I'm not looking to recover but I'm sick of people seeing my arms, what good places do you recommend I can cut" you think that is acceptable?
It is indeed a disturbing trend. In my opinion, cutting needs to be something that is ok to talk about, no longer in the veil of silence. But in no way shape or form is it ok for it to become an acceptable behavior. i've seen it argued a lot in chats and in forum posts. there are two extremes
SI is something to be ashamed of. never are we to come out of shame, we are forever to hide our scars because it is just that shameful. Oh, and definitely never talk about it.
and
SI isn't really that bad. It's just a way to cope. Not like I'm going out and drinking.
Well, both of these thoughts are wrong. I have a problem with both of them.
Though a little nibble I said where and when, not how, the how I think is yus very encouraging and leads to tip sharing, however the discussion of where as in relation to those who don’t want to give it up but for the scars not to be visible is what I was meaning, not for the intention of tip sharing for causing more damage.
Sorry, good sir! ;) That's what happens when I try to reply from memory. Agreed, the 'where' isn't as bad as the 'how'. Although I'm still not comfortable with that.
Nothing more to add just now.
Face your life
Its pain, its pleasure
Leave no path untaken
I agree with Irene, try and stamp out these discussions and they will just go underground, on a forum site they can be moderated for tipsharing and rule-breaking. I think open and honest, frank discussion of self harm really is needed. Shroud something in mystery and it will seem even more alluring to vulnerable teens.
I don't think anyone is saying we need to stamp out these discussions [with the exception of the rule breaking ones I mentioned which would obviously need to be removed], rather theissues need to be discussed with an open and blunt view of what people are doing to themselves. Even if that is just in this thread, and people can take away what ideas they will on the matter,
On second thought I have just realised I said they should be stamped out, it's okay cause I'm sick and tired and confused! I didn't mean stamp out avoided or removed, I meant, stamped out - talked openly against, stand up for what may be a different, unpopular view. That we don't just lie down and go "oh yeah, cool" we sit up and say "hold on, I disagree".
I think both sides of an argument need to be heard so people can draw their own conclusions about wether it is ok to cut or not. Members of this site are not toddlers and I know if someone tells me not to do something without giving a valid reason, well then I feel like pushing back against them and doing it anyway. If people feel like they are hearing the full picture they can weigh up the evidence themselves.
I think that for someone who self harms, self harm feels normal and it can be difficult to get out that mindset when you're ill. It isn't normal for a girl of my age to have a first aid kit in her room, I know that. But I do, because self harm has become part of my life while I learn to cope with the feelings and problems behind it properly. Once they've been dealt with, I'll be able to hopefully stop self harming and it won't be normal for me to need a first aid kit in my room.
Sometimes I've had to stop myself asking a potentially tipsharing question or post something very triggering on a thread, simply because they're things that go through my head at the moment, they're questions and thoughts I have. It doesn't mean I don't want to recover - if I didn't, I wouldn't be seeing all the goddamn people I do. It's because that, for the moment, self harm still feels normal to me.
I think what I'm trying to say is - self harm can feel normal to the self harmer, even though they know it isn't. And the individual self harmer needs to look at the underlying issues and deal with them before self harm stops feeling normal for them. We can't blame RYL and other self harmers who are still in "self harm is normal to me to cope" for our self harming because... we're responsible for ourselves..
Although there's the legal diddlydoos about tipsharing and etc. I'm not saying we should tipshare, I'm saying you don't necessarily have to think self harm is normal to sometimes accidently say/post something which could be construed as normal, because it can seem normal to us at the time.
And Heidi - my apologies for the mis-communication! I agree both sides of any discussion are needed to be heard. But I noticed this side - the "cutting isn't healthy [for lack of better word]" sort of side was under-represented in most forums.
I think that it would be far healthier to allow those threads and to address the points raised in them. People have always compared their SI to more socially accepted maladaptive behaviours, and they always will. If they can air those views here and others can debate it then there is a chance that they will come to take the opposite view in time. Much better than scurrying off to talk about it on a pro site or msn where there is nothing to counter it.
Nobody issaying to not allow the threads, though. In fact we are saying they should have the threads - but that they should actually be debated and challenged against.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me. Ya'rgh.
I'm not saying we should ban the threads - I don't know if others are, what I am saying is we need to be aware of them and "..give this sort of feedback back to members who are asking this question, and, having an open and frank discussion about it here. Push past the soft, cuddly answers and be blunt with people." But not ban the threads completely.
