pro choice definitely.
the amountof arguements iv been in over this is ridiculous.
I nearly fell out with one of my good friends because she feels so strongly about it. She thinks though, "if your not prepared to have a baby, then dont have sex.end of."
which i disagree with.
I think every woman deserves a choice, everyone makes mistakes, and if your not in the right place mentally, or otherwise, to have a child its not fair on you or the baby.
I don't however believe its ok to have unprotected sex regularly, believing that you can just have anabortion if you get pregnant.
take for example a girl im in school with is pregnant, and not in a relationship, but keeping the baby, and i have so much respect and admiration for her. Because honestly i know that if that was me i just wouldnt be strong enough to cope
The thing for me is, I'd rather someone admit they don't want it, whatever the situation may be, rather then clam they are 'good' enough to still have it, then give it up.
Its abandonment to me. If it deserves a life, shouldn't it deserve a real life with love and care instead of being given up to live with lord only knows who? Lots of kids in foster care are abused and so on.
Plus, for pro-life people, you get to decide to cut your hair or let it grow; to let someone touch you (in whatever way) or not. Basically you get to decide what to do with your body, and every women should have that right.
I'm not going to lie, even if I think it depends, I still think it is ending a life, which isn't exactly right, but who am I to tell someone they can't do something simply because I don't believe it's right?
I can't tell someone else to believe in god if they don't, I can't tell someone who to love if I think it's wrong (I don't think its wrong) and I certainly don't believe I can tell any woman that she doesn't have a right to her own body.
The choice should be there. Men have had control over womens bodies for a long time. This is one of those rights we need to be incontrol of ourselves.
Right, I am going to start off by saying I'm totally pro-choice and I'm also not meaning to offend anyone that was born prem or anything, just I have my own views which I have for specific reasons.
An embryo has the potential to be a human, I believe that, but in the first few weeks it has not fully developed organs, it cannot process anything, yes it is life but at that point it can feel nothing so if for whatever reason the woman does not feel that they want to keep it then if done early it is often the best thing for them to do and prevents problems later on such as the baby being born into a family where it isn't wanted. That could lead to cases of abuse which I don't think are fair to bring that baby into the world.
I also think that if you're raped then would you be able to cope with the 'product of the rape' growing inside you for 9months, being a constant reminder of what happened and possibly even resembling the rapist; even if they don't to you they might do. And then you've got the problems of the father wanting to see the child if they find out or the child almost definately asking questions at some point asking about their father. Would you be able to deal with that; I know I definately wouldn't be able to. That is a case where I actually got a stong catholic RE teacher to question his beliefs about it as he was 'pro-life' but suddenly hated the idea of if me or one of his other students got raped and became pregnant that we'd feel forced into keeping it.
Then there is the cases of medical 'abortions'. For those that are dead set against abortions for all reasons then look at this. If, in the case of ectopic pregnancies, both mother and embryo are going to die if the pregnancy carries on, there is NO chance of survival for the embryo then surely the rights to 'terminate' the pregnancy should be fine? Deaths of the mother do occur relatively commonly in ectopic pregnancies through shock then the fallopian tubes rupture or through the embryo migrating into the body cavity and growing to cause a huge bleed as they are constantly connected to a blood supply and as they move that can easily snap (yes, that does happen). I know you may not think this is the same but an interesting statistic that shows the damage ectopic pregnancies caused is that 80% of sudden deaths in female, otherwise healthy, rabbits is due to mass haemorrage (bleeding) and shock as a result of an ectopic pregnancy. This also happens in people and can kill with no warning.
In the terms of the age of having pregnancies terminated up to a certain point being dropped I think that this need not happen if the reasons for abortion are REALLY REALLY justified, though I think all should be possibly done to prevent it from getting this late in the day. Basically I think this because though the age of viability is now technically set at 24weeks and the age you can have an abortion up until is 24weeks, I don't actually think we should readily state that a baby born at 24weeks is readily viable. At that age the lungs are undeveloped to the point where you cannot survive without ventilation. Yes if born at 24weeks you may survive minutes without intervention but that is it. Intervention in a prem baby is traumatic and does have lasting effects such as brain damage as the blood vessels in your brain aren't fully developed enough to cope with life 'outside'. I know I'm going off on a tangent here but I also just want to mention that if you're very prem should doctors automatically try and keep you alive. I say this as I was born at 28weeks (12weeks prem) and I still have lasting effects from it, some of which they may not have totally found yet. For example I've had epilepsy all my life, tests have confirmed that, but I only started to show signs of it this time last year. I also have other conditions some which may be related, some which definately are.
When I was born I had a hell of a lot of intervention and if going by viability is 22-24weeks then I was well past that, over a month yet I had an almost zero chance of survival. I got baptised at 2days old because they were certain I would not live past that day and yeh I may be here now but it's not been easy to get where I am; I fought hard. My first memory is of seeing my physiotherapist. Other early memories are of having reoccuring nightmares because of my parents not explaining a medical condition I had to me and I was convinced I was going to die. I have physical scars because of what I went through; scars which I may have to have surgery to correct at some point. I have scarring on my lungs as the ventilator that kept me alive was set at a point which should've been fine was actually too strong and damaged the fragile structure of my lungs. I had problems with my heart which may still be having a lasting affect now as I have a heart murmur which comes and goes. I was resuscitated several times too which I think in the process they managed to break at least one of my ribs as that is misshapen now. I had multiple brain haemorrhages which left me brain damaged; the cause of my epilepsy and therefore the reason I've lost my driving license. It also caused other problems and may well be the reason why, to this day, I am in constant pain with my back, cannot walk far, may have to drop out of uni and can't have a social life. There are also other things that happened as a result of that, one being that I needed intensive physio to allow me to be able to walk when I was 2 and a half and I can say now that that physio, though got me walking, would have been VERY painful and I have come to dread physio.
What I'm trying to say is though viable at 24weeks this will not mean that without medical intervention a baby at that age could survive and the intervention isn't nice and does have lasting physical effects in most cases and this can be anything. If I was to have a baby at 28weeks (4 weeks after the gov'ts age of viability), the same point in gestation that I was born, would I have it resuscitated? Probably not, yes it would have the chance to be successful but it also had the chance for many things to go wrong. I'm at uni, on one of the most pretigious courses there is, I am intelligent, to many my life on paper seems great, but in reality it's been a struggle, one which I wouldn't want to go through again and don't think anyone should have to. Yeah I'm not going to blame all my problems on it right now as I don'ttotally know but just the damage that it caused and others like me, I'm not sure I agree with the amount of intervention that is allowes and some of my close friends that knew what happened also agree with me there. Shouldd babies have to go through loads and loads of pain just because there is a small chance they will survive? I am one of the lucky one's but I'm not entirely sure I'm grateful of my parents keeping me alive and I have openly said that to my friends.
Though, I personally am proud I got through when all odds are against me. It is quite funny to see people's shock when I tell them I was born 12weeks early, had 3 brain haemorrhages, told I'd never walk, never be able to think even in the tiny chance of me surviving as well as me having 'heart attacks', a 'punctured lung' and numerous other things wrong with me
As I said right at the start of this thread, I am pro-life in principle, but in reality I'm pro-choice.
In an ideal world (which we all know this isn't) we wouldn't need to have abortion except for medical reasons or the case of rape or incest because contraception would work one hundred percent of the time and people would know how to use it properly. Contraception doesn't always work and although the protection can be increased by doubling up (ag condom as well as the pill) that can't be done for everyone. Not every woman can take a pill or have any other internal contraception medication.
I know that if I was in that position then I'd go for an abortion. But I'm careful and hope never to be in that situation. Quite a lot of pregnancies naturally miscarriage in the first few months anyway.
If an abortion needs to be carried out then it should before 12 weeks, as early as possible. Unless it is for medical reasons, that being a danger to the mother or the baby is dead in the womb. NOT that the baby will be born with a disability, I am totally against aborting because of that.
I think the father should have a say too. Yes, it's the woman's body but it is still the father's child, something that he helped to create. It can be just as traumatic for him if an abortion gets carried out, and many people forget his role in this.
Sorry, I'm rambling and it's probably not very coherent, but oh well.
Women may not always know if they are pregnant at 12 weeks, if a woman has irregular periods anyway, it can be a couple of months before a woman has any idea she is pregnant.
Also, define "disability". Are you talking about a baby born with a club foot? Or a baby born without most of it's brain? (There is a name for that but I don't have time to find it).
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
Good point Aidey. I do think it's a shame that people will put into the same category things such as club foot and conditions that may involve operations immediately after birth, months in a SCBU and/or a high chance of not surviving for long after birth (or even surviving the rest of the pregnancy).
18.11 28.4 6.5 22.31
My heart just needs his smile, that i can't forget, like so melancholy a kiss.
I am personally against abortion, but I am pro choice, I believe there is a big difference between a baby and a fetus and abortion isnt black and white, there are many things that make abortion the best option.
...Sticks and stones may break my bones; but words, they scar forever...
Luckily with genetic counseling people can avoid a lot of conditions, like Tay Sachs, that they couldn't before. But there are still going to be chances of birth defects and undetected genetic disorders.
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
I am 100% completely and utterly pro-choice! But I HATE abortion. I know it sounds a little weird (altohugh I don't doubt there are many people who have already said pretty much the same thing)
I fully believe that life begins and conception and all of that, I also believe in every human's right to life etc...however...I also think that every woman has the right to choose what SHE does with her life and with her body (this argument tears me slightly because there is obviously another life and another body involved but you know what I mean)
There is nothing worse than a child being brought into the world who is simply going to be dumped on the side of the road or stabbed at birth or poorly cared for.
In an ideal world everyone would be a bit more careful or decide to take responsibility but it's just not that simple. When these things happen I fully believe in taking responsibility for your actions...if that means abortion then so be it.
Absolutely not! Think about that for a second. That would mean that rapists would be able to force their victims to carry their child to term. And good luck trying to argue that rape would be an exception -- besides that rape doesn't automatically terminate the father's parental rights, the majority of rapes aren't even reported let alone proven. Sure if a women is brutally attacked there's going to be plenty of physical evidence that it was rape, but more often it would have been date rape, and it will only be her word that it wasn't consensual even if she does report it, which most women don't, so most of the time rapists would have the same legal rights as any other father. And since rape is about power and control, that would effectively mean letting them continue to rape their victims for nine more months.
And even if the child wasn't conceived in rape, even if the parents are married, giving the father any legal say in whether the woman can have an abortion would take women's rights back at least a century. If the woman has a good relationship with the father, hopefully she'd choose to discuss it with him, because if nothing else, I think that having emotional support from your significant other help a lot, but even telling him about the pregnancy, let alone deciding to have an abortion, has to be entirely her choice.
Emily
(\__/)
(O.o )
(> < ) This Is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
I'm very pro-life. Why should people just take the escape route when they should of used protection?
But this takes the cake:
"And even if the child wasn't conceived in rape, even if the parents are married, giving the father any legal say in whether the woman can have an abortion would take women's rights back at least a century."
Just a prime example of the feminist world we live in. What, exactly would of happened if there was no male input. Oh, yes, no ****ing baby, so by ****ing science we should get ****ing equal say. Forget taking back Women's rights, Father's rights have never even existed!
Of course I'm willing to compromise, women get the rights, we get bringing back capital punishment and hanging (or any other method of execution) any "mother" who murders the father's son/daughter, by right too. Fair.
Women may not always know if they are pregnant at 12 weeks, if a woman has irregular periods anyway, it can be a couple of months before a woman has any idea she is pregnant.
Also, define "disability". Are you talking about a baby born with a club foot? Or a baby born without most of it's brain? (There is a name for that but I don't have time to find it).
I have fairly irregular periods, and if for a second I thought I was pregnant (as I have in the past) I would go and get a pregnancy test. They're not terribly expensive, or the doctor can do them for free.
Everyone would define disability differently. Anything that allows the child to be born and to have some sort of life should not be allowed an abortion, in my opinion. For example, I know of someone who aborted because the child had a high chance of having Down's Syndrome. If the child will only exist by constantly being hooked up to machines for the entirety of its life then I can understand abortion. Am I making sense?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~invisible~girl~
Absolutely not! Think about that for a second. That would mean that rapists would be able to force their victims to carry their child to term. And good luck trying to argue that rape would be an exception -- besides that rape doesn't automatically terminate the father's parental rights, the majority of rapes aren't even reported let alone proven. Sure if a women is brutally attacked there's going to be plenty of physical evidence that it was rape, but more often it would have been date rape, and it will only be her word that it wasn't consensual even if she does report it, which most women don't, so most of the time rapists would have the same legal rights as any other father. And since rape is about power and control, that would effectively mean letting them continue to rape their victims for nine more months.
And even if the child wasn't conceived in rape, even if the parents are married, giving the father any legal say in whether the woman can have an abortion would take women's rights back at least a century. If the woman has a good relationship with the father, hopefully she'd choose to discuss it with him, because if nothing else, I think that having emotional support from your significant other help a lot, but even telling him about the pregnancy, let alone deciding to have an abortion, has to be entirely her choice.
What about the rights of the father? Or do they not have any? What if it was consensual sex and the man does not believe in abortion? His rights are automatically forgotten in favour of the woman. It is not the man's fault that he cannot carry the child. I just think his beliefs have to be taken into consideration. It might not work in a practical sense, but in an ideal sense it should.
Well, foetus' are parasites. They are feeding off of you, using everything you use, double strain within the body, basically. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to claim your body back as your own. You say when something has the right to feed off of you, not a burst condom.
And when you're facing an unwanted pregnancy, you're not thinking of what's inside you as a cute little baby that looks lovely and is soft and smells amazing. It's this foetus that you don't want turning into a baby, not yet, so you get rid of it.
It's a completely different mind set.
I'm very pro-life. Why should people just take the escape route when they should of used protection?
But this takes the cake:
"And even if the child wasn't conceived in rape, even if the parents are married, giving the father any legal say in whether the woman can have an abortion would take women's rights back at least a century."
Just a prime example of the feminist world we live in. What, exactly would of happened if there was no male input. Oh, yes, no ****ing baby, so by ****ing science we should get ****ing equal say. Forget taking back Women's rights, Father's rights have never even existed!
Of course I'm willing to compromise, women get the rights, we get bringing back capital punishment and hanging (or any other method of execution) any "mother" who murders the father's son/daughter, by right too. Fair.
Not everyone who has an abortion was careless and didn't use protection. Not all contraception methods are 100%, people do, and have become pregnant while using birth control.
And please don't blame abortions no people having sex outside of marriage. There is significant data showing that married women who already have kids, and are over the age of 30 (I think that is the age) are the fastest growing group of women having abortions.
It is extremely sad when a woman has an abortion against the father's wishes, however, what can the legal and medical system do? Biologically a fetus is a parasite, and there is no way to force a woman to carry it to term.
Requiring the father's permission raises a whole slew of issues, what if the woman doesn't know who the father is? What if the father doesn't consent? Since it's incredibly expensive to do a paternity test in utero the woman could claim any man is the father just to have the fetus terminated.
At this point in the vast majority of industrialized counties have legal systems that do not allow one person to have power over the body of another, except in very specific situations (such has someone who mentally can't make decisions for themselves.). Unless someone wants to argue that all pregnant women are irrational and can't make their own decisions no one else is ever going to be able to have power over a pregnant woman's body.
Giving that power to the father is setting back woman's rights hundreds (if not thousands) of years because of what I've said above.
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
Then there is the cases of medical 'abortions'. For those that are dead set against abortions for all reasons then look at this. If, in the case of ectopic pregnancies, both mother and embryo are going to die if the pregnancy carries on, there is NO chance of survival for the embryo then surely the rights to 'terminate' the pregnancy should be fine? Deaths of the mother do occur relatively commonly in ectopic pregnancies through shock then the fallopian tubes rupture or through the embryo migrating into the body cavity and growing to cause a huge bleed as they are constantly connected to a blood supply and as they move that can easily snap (yes, that does happen). I know you may not think this is the same but an interesting statistic that shows the damage ectopic pregnancies caused is that 80% of sudden deaths in female, otherwise healthy, rabbits is due to mass haemorrage (bleeding) and shock as a result of an ectopic pregnancy. This also happens in people and can kill with no warning.
Yes I did say I am pro-life BUT in circumstances yes abortions is ok. Otherwise I would be a hypocrite saying I was dead set against abortion seeing as I had a ectopic pregnancy myself earlier in the year but then I don't class that as a medical abortion no matter what people say. To me (and this is just me and if it's a wrong way to think well I'm sorry) but when I hear the word 'abortion' I automatically just think of not wanting the baby but I wanted it so I always just say 'I lost the baby' ...
pro-choice all the way. I think that a woman has the right to chose weather or not she can carry the baby for nine month. Like i know i could not carry a rape baby but someone else might be able to. Also, if the mother has serious health risks I would understand her not wanting to jeopardize her own life within the nine months. I think it is all on the situation and just plain old choice to carry or not to carry a child for nine months.
And now my life has changed in oh so many ways, My independence seems to vanish in the haze.
But every now and then I feel so insecure
(littlesheep adopted me)(sparky_jro is my mommy)(I adopted theroad2here)
Just as an FYI for everyone in the US "miscarriage" is not a medical term, it's a social one. The medical equivalent is "spontaneous abortion".
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
