Why is it wrong to say Its Bad Parenting?

[Margo]

If i was at work and in charge of people and i let communication breakdown and it kind of all fell apart, there would be few to not agree i had managed things badly.

If i am in a situation and i react in a bad way that leaves people hurt, then it is perfectly resonable to say i handled it badly.

If i have a tendency to drive into other people and scrape walls as i reverse, it would not be unkind to say i am a bad driver.

So why, when a parent does something that ends up hurting their children is it not okay to say its bad parenting?

Since when did parents develop an impenetrable barrier that absolves them of any wrong doing? Why is it that as soon as someone says "i am a bad parent" or "i feel like a bad parent" we all swarm and throw affection and tell them they are wonderful and great?

I would hazzard a guess that many of us here have the problems we do because of the direct or inderect actions of our parents. We are ready to shout and scream at them, but when a parent worries they have done wrong there is never anyone to say, "yeah, actually you screwed up BIG TIME; that was BAD parenting"

We could argue that the act of parenting in iteself is one that can never be objectified as its such a subjective area outside of the basic objective responsibilities of feeding, watering and holding? I choose to not use the word nurture or care as this too is subjective. However does this mean we cant say you did a bad job or you ARE doing a bad job?

Im not saying its an easy job. Im not saying its a precise occupation. What i am saying is that surely if we continue to tell people they are good parent by continuing to do destructive and potentially damaging things to their families, arent we justifying their actions to some degree? Arent we just afraid that if we actually say we disagree we are opening ourselves up for critiscism?

Actually when you took that overdose while your child was in the house it WAS bad parenting. It was neglectful. Actually when your kids found the pills or the knife or the bandages or whatever it was, that WAS and IS bad parenting.

Actually when you tried to saw your arms off and boild yourself to death that was bad parenting!

Why is it wrong to say this? Surely it is something that needs to be corrected and not just accepted?

I too on MANY MANY occasions have sat here and replied and told people they are great mums. Half the time i am wincing when i write it thinking OMFG i simply cant believe you did that!

I think what some people may fear is that by saying that the action of another was bad parenting will somehow be translated into calling them a bad person. However would you call the manager or driver a bad person or simply a bad manager or driver?

I think ultimately the biggest misinterpretation is when someone feels they are a bad Mother or Father. Well you become a mother or father by default when the child pops out. You "learn" parenting. Unless there is pre meditated malicious neglect then i would say its almost impossible to be a bad Mother or Father. you just "are" their Mother/Father.

I think its ok to say its bad parenting. If people arent corrected in what they do then how will they ever learn to get it right? how will they ever learn right from wrong? (i accept the paradox here being so subjective).

My parents ****ed me up! They parented me BADLY! It doesnt make them bad people. It doesnt make my Mother a bad mother or my Father a bad Father. It just makes them bad Parents! They made mistakes, but mistakes do not and should not absolve you of responsibility!

[Coffee Addict]

TOTALLY AGREE......and I like your honesty.
Parenting is like a job you didn't apply for, but got.
Sometime you hate the job, but can't quit.
You can never get 'fired' from the job. So good or bad you still parent.
I think some parents feel they can take a "leave of absence" from the job......but sorry, there are no sick days, leave of absesnces or vacations that come with this job.

[Stellata]

I was on the receiving end of some bad parenting. But my parents weren't, and aren't, bad people. They just hadn't matured enough themselves, and had no support whatsoever.

[Bitter_Angel]

I can see what you are saying. But bad parenting is different I feel than being a bad parent.

Yes my parents have done things that have not been in my best interest, in which I will gladly agree that it is bad parenting at that point. But they have also gone out of their way and shown me love and kindness. I would say that in my experience the bad parenting I have received was maybe 20% of mt all time parenting. So if you were to compare that the to driving of the car, I would say that perhaps they are normally good drivers, but have the occasional bump and even perhaps participate in courses to improve their skill?

[Laura2.0]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bitter_Angel

I can see what you are saying. But bad parenting is different I feel than being a bad parent.

Yes my parents have done things that have not been in my best interest, in which I will gladly agree that it is bad parenting at that point. But they have also gone out of their way and shown me love and kindness. I would say that in my experience the bad parenting I have received was maybe 20% of mt all time parenting. So if you were to compare that the to driving of the car, I would say that perhaps they are normally good drivers, but have the occasional bump and even perhaps participate in courses to improve their skill?

^this

My mom is a great parent.. the best mom in the world. But when she watched my dad physically hurting me, she made a mistake. She learned from it and now she is calling him every now and then when he's yelling at me a bit too much. It's a bit late (I'm 21), but better late than never.

[Margo]

I think you miss my point a little.

Basically why do we NEVEr say it was bad parenting when someone does something that affects the kids? It kinda pisses me off tbh. In real life and most of the time on here.

Im not calling people bad parents. Just like if i had one silly accident in the car i wouldnt want to be branded a bad driver, but that silly incident was deserving of being called bad driving.

Over and over parents do shitty things and question if they are a bad parent and get nothing in return other than kisses and hugs and "oh no you are amazing". I dont see why we cant say, actually Matthew you arent a bad parent per se but you parented that situation really badly, or as a consequence of your actions you were parenting badly!

Rather than "on no sweety you are amazing and strong and wonderful and the sun shines from your bottom"..

How is someone going to know or learn if they are vindicated each time in their actions? I know many who through the sefl realisation of how they have affected their kids on some way have gotten better or ceased etc. Just read the "reason for quitting" threads for example.

Perhaps im saying this from a recovery POV. As now firmly and deeply in recovery i can truely see the consequences of my actions. I cease from doing silly things becausde i know the effect on others now aside from merely myself. I dunno. Maybe im seeing this all too simply?

I just found a horse and its rather high up here :)

[Sefka]

I don’t know. Why don’t we say it? You’re right, it should be okay to say ‘yeah, you screwed up there.’


The only thing I can think of is the ‘getting back on the horse’ syndrome.


To take your driving example – last year I crashed my motorbike through the front of a café. It was quite spectacular, broken glass everywhere, I came off the bike and slid across the floor until I’d hit enough chairs and tables to break my momentum. Once my friends had ascertained that I was okay (nobody else was in the place, thank god!) their general attitude was ‘what were you playing at, you ****ing noob?!’ So I was bruised, embarrassed and VERY aware that I’d just demonstrated the worst driving known to mankind. And their attitude was reinforcing it. Fair enough. But then we had to get home. And as everyone had their own bike, I was going to have to get straight back on that damn thing and carry on riding. So they picked me up, brushed me off and encouraged me, saying things like ‘don’t worry about it, I’ve had much worse crashes,’ or ‘you’ve been a really good driver up until now, this will only make you better.’ So I managed to get back on and keep driving. There was only one friend who kept pointing at one of the tables that I’d totalled and saying ‘what if there’d been a family of 4 sitting there, you really could’ve killed someone.’ Now that was true, but if everyone had been saying that, I think I would’ve never ridden again.


But with parenting, it’s not something you can give up, and I think if someone does something that’s clearly bad parenting, they’re probably aware of that and already feeling pretty guilty about it. And I’d guess if they post about it, they’re looking for a bit of reassurance that they’re not an irrevocably ‘bad parent,’ and they need some encouragement to get back on the horse.


Which could be why other people go to such lengths to reassure them, especially if they’re parents and have been there themselves?


But it’s equally possible that people (like me) who aren’t parents thing ‘Argh! Loaded topic!’ and aren’t comfortable enough to say what they really think (which is ZOMFG you did WHAT?!)


Maybe it comes down to that age-old argument – the softly, softly approach vs the tell-it-like-it-is approach.


I don’t know. These are just my thoughts.

[effervescence]

I tell people what I would have done differently, rather than telling them that what they did was bad.

[Bitter_Angel]

I do agree with you Matthew and to be honest, I will mostly tell a person if they are doing something which is textbook bad parenting. Some things I dont think are as clear. I can say that it might have a bad effect and wouldnt be something that I would do. But, its also not as clear sometimes. Parents I think have a difficult job. Its something that I would love to do, but it is a huge responsibility, knowing that something you do now, could make or break that child 5 years later. I think without having been in that position I find it hard to speak fully. But as I said, if it is something that is more clear, then I will tell them.

[makedamnsure]

Quote:

But with parenting, it’s not something you can give up, and I think if someone does something that’s clearly bad parenting, they’re probably aware of that and already feeling pretty guilty about it. And I’d guess if they post about it, they’re looking for a bit of reassurance that they’re not an irrevocably ‘bad parent,’ and they need some encouragement to get back on the horse.

This.

Also...is there such a thing as "good parenting"?

All parents mess up, and all parents are acutely aware that their actions may impact on their kids. I'm not a parent myself, but I can imagine if I was I would spend my whole time second guessing myself and berating myself for my mistakes (which however hard I try I am guaranteed to make).

With the benefit of hindsight it is easy to see where you have gone wrong and where you could have done things better. Unfortunately where children are concerned one mistake may have long lasting consequences and there isn't a way to undo what you have done wrong.

So reassurance to someone that they are not a bad parent is the only real thing anyone can do. Telling them that they have messed up and possibly ****ed up their kid for life won't acheive anything. Reassurance can help them feel better about their actions and perhaps help them to rectify them.

[Margo]

Hmm, im not talking about telling someone they have f..u..(ked up their kid for life. This is about why it seems taboo not to correct peoples parenting at times of extreme suckiness. Its also about actually helping the person and not kicking them while they are down.

This is about saying "yes you really did **** up and yes you will have hurt them"...." we know youre a loving and kind mum/dad, but jesus you really screwed this up"....."hopefully you can resolve it with x,y and z".

As Romp says:
...if it makes one feel guilty, there's probably a good reason, isn't there??

[Pomegranate]

My Mum is a great parent in some ways, as is my Dad. In other (and to be honest quite important) ways though....they suck and I will probably never totally forgive them for those failings. That is not because I think they have done it intentionally or have failed to try their best. If my mother thinks she hid her m/h issues then she is damn ****ing delusional. Similar with my Dad. I am 'hurt' by their lackings due to their health issues but their denial and 'covering up' did me more damage then their honesty would have ever done. I (and others) are not stupid. I knew. What hurt the most was pretending not to know.

[Left Phalange]

I also wonder why we never tell people when they've been bad parents. I guess, even though they're saying themselves that they've screwed up, they're looking for reassurance..and once you tell them they're crap, you are automatically the reason for them feeling bad about it; even though they were the ones who fuccked up in the first place.

But, my mum's best friend has suffered with long-term depression, alcoholism, self harm and eating disorders. She has four children, all of whom have been taken away from her at some point or another, although she has three of them back now. She used to call my mother frequently when she didn't have the children with her, telling my mum she was a terrible parent and that she deserved everything she got. Automatically, my mum would be defensive of her, saying "Oh of course you're not a bad parent, you're ill, blah blah blah."

And I'm not being funny, but being ill does not excuse bad parenting. I mean, her children were finding her passed out drunk or from taking overdoses, walked in on her cutting, etc. etc. And everyone was still telling her she was a good mother? I know her children love her dearly and wouldn't change her for the world, but making excuses for that kind of behaviour isn't helping and is really just enforcing her belief that she doesn't REALLY need to get better if others think she's a good mother anyways.

Apologies for the rant and if it doesn't make sense. D:

[Laura2.0]

It does make sense nick.

I am volunteering every year at a summer camp where I take care of kids/teens and where I teach them some circus techniques. When one of the volunteers fvcks up, then the leader tells us that we fvcked up and we are supposed to tell each other (the more experienced ones actuall do that). At the same time he tells us how to do things better the next time.
'throwing a club at the children is inacceptable, if you do that again you can't volunteer here and have to go home. The next time a kid doesn't pay attention you go and take his/her hand and look them in the eyes when you are talking with them.' (yes, this did really happen)
/example

I think this is what matthew is talking about? to tell someone that they fvcked up but also tell ppl how they could do things better the next time.

sorry if I'm wrong

[Margo]

Yes pretty Much Laura. It just seems to me that this is an area of life we arent supposed to attempt to offer guidance, advice or correcting in any way shape or form. Of course entering into this area really is a minefield and one has to tread carefully, but i just never see anyone doing anything about it.

Its not just on this site but IRL too.

[tiptoes]

I remember when I was in school I was having problems with an ED, anxiety and depression. My mums issues were feeding my own problems (e.g. her refusing to cook for us), for this reason I kept my issues from my parents until the matter was taken out of my hands and my doctor told them. Following this I had my mum crying on my shoulder telling me how she felt like she was a bad mother. I told this to my head of sixth form her reply was "well maybe she should". Her response shocked me because when ever it was mentioned in front of any/every one else they turned it on me that I shouldn't be affected by my mum's neuroses. The amount of arguments I have had with my elder sister because I have objected to something my mum has done apparently 14/16/18 y/o me should have risen above it because my mum has always been the way she has been. I am sorry, it hurts that when I needed her the most she failed me and resulted in me parenting her through my breakdown.

Sorry gone off on a bit of a rant. subject matter touches a nerve...

[Laura2.0]

oh.. that's great, I thought I didn't get it right.

It's really tough when someone tells you that you fvcked up when you are a volunteer. I can only guess how it must be to be told that you fvcked up when you are a parent.
But when you fvck up you know that something went wrong most of the time, so constructie critizism (spelling?) is good even though it can hurt a lot in the situation when someone tells you all the things that went wrong.

[insidemyhead]

my mums abused me since 5 in many ways and has hurt me beyond anything no matter how ive called out for someone to be on my side only one person in 15 years believed me and even though the evidence was there its not bad parenting its because im mentally ill and disturbed. No-ones challenged my mum ive been blamed for her doings and people dont belive what i say. So im left alone now and i cant even tell people about my mum because there is no point. She is so good at acting all the time people just feel sorry for her shell go 'oh im such a bad parent' me silently thinking yes you are as you disown and deliberatley hurt and torment your own flesh and blood they'll go 'no you're not' thinking good god i wouldnt be able to live with her daughter how hard that must be.

I dont know if this is relevant id just thought id say i agree but only that people tell people they're good parents when theyve done real wrong. Even social services when children are forced into care from abuse and neglect and whatever else.. when the social workers visit the parents after they cant even tell them they're bad parents due to the threat of being taken to court etc... (i read books on such things) i agree with you i mean fair enough when a parent thinks they're bad but just are having a crisis of confidence its ok but i dont like it when someone is actually bad and people contradict them when they should be told the truth otherwise how can they improve or learn from their doings?

[makedamnsure]

Perhaps then the question should be...if we told a parent that they were wrong or had f*cked up somehow. Would they pay any attention?

Everyone seems to have different ideas of parenting. My boyfriend has nephews of similar ages and they couldn't be more different and are parented very differently. One is already (at almost 2) quite overweight and in that situation a few people have tried to suggest that his parents should feed him less and been ignored. The mother actually threw the health visitor out of the house after she said he was a bit slow learning to talk. This same person also didn't put suncream on her child because "he needs to build up some resistance to the sun". In those situations we have stepped in and said "look, this isn't how to be a parent. Babies need suncream, he is a bit slow so perhaps you could see a doctor and just check he's ok etc." and been blatently ignored.

But whilst she is being a bad parent, she is not neglectful, so there isn't much we can do however upsetting we find it, if she ignores all our advice.

There are some instances that are clearly wrong parenting. But often the line is much more blurry and people have different ideas about whats right and wrong.

[Pictsie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by makedamnsure

There are some instances that are clearly wrong parenting. But often the line is much more blurry and people have different ideas about whats right and wrong.

I think this is the problem, everyone has a different idea of how kids should be raised or looked after and most people parent's or otherwise don't like criticism of any kind, offer some advise and you're more likely than not to be told "its my life and I'll do it how I think is right" or something similar

There's also a bit of everyone has to be treated like fragile glass, its bad to upset someone, everything's positive no negative allowed, how do you tell someone in a positive way that they did something wrong?