SI in America compared to...
 

I've been looking around on these message boards about SI and also have been noticing where people are from. A lot of people in England accept and get help from doctors (including stitches, medicine for mental stability, etc) and it seems to me that in the UK SI is more of an acceptable act. Am I correct or mislead?

I say this because in America, it's social taboo to SI. I don't know of anyone of my friends that self harm. It's barely known. And there are a lot of misunderstandings. So help me out here, tell me what SI is like in you Country, State, Province, City, whatever you'd like.

I live in Indiana in the US. To SI is to basically declare yourself "a little emo kid". It isn't taken very seriously. People who actually need help don't get it.

I live in Ohio. :) And as well as Christie, it's pretty much a declaration of being "emo".

I too have almost noticed that in the U.K. it seems a little more accepted than here in the U.S.

i think even in the US it the taboo ranges wildly from region to region. i just moved to VA where it is basically unheard of and no one talks about it and i've basically been told that i have to cover up all the time at work or i would not be hired at my job. where i moved form i felt fine wearing short sleeves and talking to people who asked questions. it was a more upscale educated area(not that all of VA isnt just the area i'm in happens to be a slightly less educated back hills kinda place). but in all...yes i've noticed what your saying as well. and i have often wondered the same thing. there arent many treatment options in the US because its so taboo and the ones that are available (like SAFE) sometimes dont work out. i wish it werent so but we ourselves make the taboo by being so secretive about what we do. its natural to fear something you dont understand and most people who dont SI dont understand it at all...

Yeah this is pretty much what others have said, but in my area being an SI-er will get you one of two reactions from people: most often, you just get labelled an emo and people think you are just trying to get attention. Or else they are horrified and treat you like you are made of glass or you might jump off a bridge any minute. I don't know anyone in real life who has SI-ed except for one friend who only did it a couple times and never had a problem with it.

I've never told anyone in real life besides my family and best friend and doctors, so I've never had to deal with any of that labelling business. But I did have to deal with some nurses in the ER and then the psych ward who didn't think I had a "right" to be cutting because I haven't been abused or anything. Just goes to show you that even the people you'd most expect to understand might not.

Sorry, I'm rambling, but my point is that yes I agree. From what I've seen, the U.S. is a lonely place to be a self harmer.

I think it probably varies between different subcultures as well as by geographic region. Among a lot of teenagers where I live, self harm is fairly well known, but only as an "emo" thing or as attention seeking. It's not that people haven't heard of it, or that it's taboo exactly, but it's viewed as more of an uncool fashion statement than a serious issue. And then there are the school administrators and parents who go along with these populations of teens, and tend to view it as a problem in teen culture that they need to fix (similar to 'sex bracelets' or certain drugs).

Where I'm from, I think that people seem to be fairly familiar with it. I had a friend in high school who cut (and was pretty open about it), another friend at summer school who actually cut in front of people, my sister cut for a while, and I know a couple people at school now who have very obviously self-inflicted scars. There was also the terrible moment in psych class when we talked briefly about SI, and people seemed to know about it, although in all fairness, I was probably the only non-psych major in the room, so it wasn't exactly a representative sample.

I think that within the medical community (especially among mental health professionals, but I think other health care providers as well) it seems to be fairly well known/understood, or at least not viewed unfairly negatively. I've definitely heard of people having bad experiences with doctors seeming resentful of having to treat a self-inflicted injury, and even with therapists not understanding it, but that's never been my experience. Not that I've had a lot of contact with professionals about it, but so far I haven't encountered anyone who I thought reacted inappropriately. The only time I've had non-psych doctors find out about it was when I had minor surgery and they insisted on putting an IV in my left arm. The anesthesiologist asked if I'd burned myself (okay, so there was no way those cuts looked like a burn, but who knows...) and then didn't say anything else about it, and the surgeon just commented that the bandaids I had over a couple of the cuts were cute. Neither of them made a big deal about it or treated me any differently afterwards (and the surgeon didn't mention it when she talked to my mom before I woke up), which I think was the appropriate response given that I was there for something pretty specific that had nothing to do with that, and I was already an adult at the time. The other people I've had contact with about it are my psychiatrist who I told about it, and my mom (who's a psychologist) who found out when she read my journal, and I think they've both handled it really well. They both seem to get that I'm not going to just stop doing it, and that it's not the primary issue (i.e. there's an underlying reason, which has to be dealt with first). My psych prof also seems to understand SI pretty well, although she doesn't know that I do it or anything so I don't know how she'd actually deal with it, but her explanation of SI in class was pretty good.

Right, you get help if you're lucky enough to be covered or if you can spring $120 per visit plus money for meds. I saw a bumper sticker once, "America eats it's young." I laughed until it started sinking in how true that was.
If you're in the dreaded bible belt then good luck with finding understanding people. You're as likely to get an exorcism or a lecture from a preacher as an appointment with a shrink. I don't SI, but in America having any medical issue whatsoever is enough of a problem.

I haven't read though all the replies, but I see a councilor at a subsidized clinic, that means people only pay as much as they can afford. Right now I pay 45% of total, and it's $90 a visit for me, plus any meds.

If I had to see someone once a week I would be spending over $350 a month, if I was paying full price i would be spending $800 a month.

Interesting. I was wondering the other day how self-injury is veiwed differently in the UK than the USA. I notice how most self-injury related organisations are UK based.

I live in London, and it seems most people have heard of self-injury. With younger teenagers you're likely to be called a "wrist-slitting emo", but alot of people are actually quite understanding, even if they don't understand WHY people self-injure they won't judge or anything. Chances are though, you're gonna get hassled if people know you SI. I've managed to deal with the bullying, personally.
The main problem I've had, however, is school policy. Although the school nurse has helped me get counselling, I've nearly been expelled because of bringing blades into school, and my cuts "scaring students". My counsellor came into the school and spoke to the deputy about it, so now some teachers are going on a training programme, and I have Time Out privilages.

So, I wouldn't say it's totally understood, and stereotypes still largey dominate society's perception, but it's easy enough to get help if you want it.
And free. America needs an NHS.

Brazil, São Paulo state. Attention seeking, emo, etc.

I've found it very, very difficult to get help for my mental health problems in the UK. The NHS is good in theory, but in some areas there just isn't the resources. I was told a year or so ago that I couldn't see a pychiarist. Luckily they changed thier mind and I've now been refered.

To be honest, no doctor has ever commented on my self-harm. I've mentioned that I self-harm, but they've never asked how/why/where/when. They've never wanted to know any information. Its as if they don't see it as a problem.

I think comments and judgements like this are disgusting.

None of my friends dow here know, but quite a few of my friends in London do. The opinions have been very mixed.

I live in the UK and self harm is alot more well known now than it was when people first found out about me self harming about five years ago. I was seen as attention seeking and it was ignored.

Now there is alot of debates about it within the news, but it is still massively missunderstood. (Anyone who read the article that was published in the Daily Mail can agree with that.) Most people still see self harm as attention seeking and some thing that only 'emos' do where I'm from which is incredibly frustrating!!

I think with the UK it varies widely in different areas, like the doctor I had was really good about it, she asked where and how often and checked I was seeing a counsellor and stuff like that.

As for accepted by the general public, I wouldn't really say it is, I think a lot of people just think you're an emo or a psycho. That said my close friends have been pretty good about it, so I guess it depends on the person.

I hate this emo label thing! People should be taken seriously and cared for and supported.

I dont think its more accepted by society here in England.Alot more people seem to know what it is now but are still missunderstanding and judgemental.
It is easier to see doctors and be treated and everything because we have the NHS so most of the time treatments of many kinds are free of charge, which makes things easier than most places but still difficult to break through at first.

I know there are labels flying about.Ive never personaly had any thrown at me thankfully but i do Hate them a lot.I hate stereo type of any kind actualy but im sure we have all been guilty of it oin the past.

I live in the UK and i was asked to leave my private girls boarding school due to my self harm as they thought i might be a bad influence on the other girls and it didn't look good on the school. I think though that if i had been on a state school i might have been offered more help as it's actually a lot harder to expell kids (private schools can basically kick out whoever they feel like). I was never jusged or called names by any of my class mates though (as far as i know!) and there were a few other girls who cut too, but didn't let it get so out of hand.

I've found that it's really, really hard to get any decent talking therapy and if you can get refered waiting lists are usually around a year. They seem to dole out drugs a lot more readily as the NHS just doesn't have the resources for enough counselling.

However, it's a lot easier to get counselling in child and adolescent services. I was told that when I was with CAMHS and i didn't believe them, now i wish i'd made the most of my counselling then!

I agree with the comments that its not more accepted in england. Its just because of the NHS that treatments are more openly available.
Now i wouldn't know about the acceptance of doctors/psychiatrists etc due to the fact that i have never told anyone about my S.I.
However i do believe that within society it is not accepted. By adults its frowned upon and seen as an adolescent selfish act. To be honest i don't believe my parents would ever see it as a serious problem. They'd think i was being childish and petty and would probably treat me like an alien.
I think in teenage culture its seen as a stupid *emo* attention seeking act.

I think it depends on your support system, whether your friends truly love you for who you are an want to help you feel better. Those kinds of friends should stick around.

I don't think its too different between the US and the UK

im in the uk, and for me opinions vary a lot from person to person. some people are brilliant,others are very quick to get out the "emo" label, and others admit that they just don't know enough about it. i don't think that within society as a whole it is seen as more acceptable to SI here than it is in the US. With treatment i think it can be seen as being easier to get treatment because of the NHS, but again the way doctors respond to it varies from person to person i think.Some can be really good, others can be really,really bad.

Mostly doctors that I've seen have asked if I'm getting help and leave it at that.

This one time at a doctors office I felt like a circus freak because people were pointing and staring.

I go to the free clinic, but hopefully I'll be changing to a subsidized place where I'll pay $8/hr. Meds are expensive though. Mostly people don't understand.

I agree with this.

I've found help very easy to get in all three of the areas I've been living this last year (student on two campuses!) all within the UK
My home towns in UK and I got help with the space of a few hours of me saying I wanted it because I was having an op on my leg which meant my surgeon seeing my scars. He talked me into getting help and now I can apparently phone them up/ see them whenever I want. I know when I phoned them at a later date they were easily available.
Last year I lived in North London and my GP referred me on the basis of my depression- never told him about my SH and I got an appointment with a Psychologist within a few weeks but he was very busy and often our busy schedules both clashed.
This year in Hertfordshire I don't know about my GPs initial reaction about my SH as he read it off my notes but he seemed a bit disappointed that I felt like I couldn't tell him (bearing in mind I've seen him quite a few times for various health probs), he referred me to a couple of psychiatrists but I can't see them because due to my health problems I've had to give up uni for a year so have moved back up home but that only took a couple of weeks and he didn't seem too surprised (though I think he thought it was the stresses of the course that caused it but its almost the opposite in my case).

In Arizona, it's known about, but there's still alot of misconceptions. It is definitely seen as an "emo" thing, like everyone else has been saying. I had a behavioral health tech come straight out and tell me i was doing it for attention. she hadn't even ever talked to me before. so yeah, i don't know about the U.K., but it's not well understood in America.

I agree with many different factors mentioned so far and there is something else I've noticed and experienced with SI. Although there is limited understanding about it in the US, and the mental health professionals argue about it being attention seeking, it seems more expected or set that this is a behavior only female teenagers engage in. I've known male teenagers who engage in this as well - however if someone engages in this behavior beyond their teenage years, or engages in it as an adult, no one understands that, talks about it, or even acknowledges it - it just makes it that much harder to seek and receive treamtent out of the teenage years.

Well I actually live in Canada and where I live SO many girls SI but not really. They do it for attention and you can tell because there's a clear difference, because they will go around showing people and complaining how it hurts, because it doesnt have any meaning to them.

The true SIers I know where I am wear long sleeved shirts and fake smiles, but it's hard being surrounded by posers who have it so easy and just feel the need to be noticed and start drama every second of the day.

The UK isn't more socially accepting of self harm compared to the US.

You make it out as if there are people running into the streets screaming "I self harm!! Woot!"

When it's nothing like that.

It's just we get mental healthcare for free. Thanks to our national insurance, and taxes. NHS is ok.

But we're not socially accepting of it much at all.

TBH, I think that the mental healthcare system over here is rubbish. I've got very little support since I went to the doctor about it.

I got put on a waiting list for 6 month for CBT and a psych nurse to talk to.

That's the list I was on when I went into my GPs office saying I was highly suicidal and didn't see the point in living, after the pointless GP appointment I was left to wait for 6 month, feeling so suicidal. Nice or what?

London, UK, here.

My friends, therapist and GP are all very understanding and non judgemental. The psychiatrist I saw didn't think what I did amounted to anything, at least worthy of note on a risk assessment form, so didn't really pay attention or ask me about it.

The general public? I'd rather not find out. My other symptoms are trouble enough.

i live in the uk and i think it is still very much taboo here as well. stuart xx.

I live in south east England, and I don't know anything about the NHS and SI, as almost nobody knows I SI, but its seen as "emo" by everyone I can think of. I've heard people make jokes about "emo-safe scissors" and stuff.. I don't think its really accepted much by society. Bleh.

Podunk, Wisconsin, US

That is exactly the treatment I got. I was told, by a psychiatrist, that it wasn't a serious thing to SI, to be careful where I cut, not to cut too deep, and if I did cut deep to get medical attention right away. They acted as if it was nothing to worry about at all.

Go home, take two asprin, and make sure to use a clean sharp blade was what it sounded like to me. This was all said with a look of disgust on his face too. :eyeroll:

I'm in Manitoba, Canada.
Basically if people find out you get the whole 'emo' thing and stuff... Although, my best friend used to SI really badly (monday is 11 months free for her) and people have come to accept her scars at school and no one has called her emo (she dresses nothing like that anyways) ..

I know quite a few people who SI or have in the past, but they're all my close friends and it's a big reason in why we've all become so close... we can all relate.

But basically it's not something they educate us about.. no one likes to talk about it and you get the big stupid emo label most of the time when people find out.

You both seem very possessive of SI... what gives you the right to say that SI that's done for attention isn't "real" SI? Don't you think you'd have to be in a pretty bad place to resort to hurting yourself for attention? In my experience, most "attention seekers" do have very real, legitimate problems that have lead to a desperate need for attention. Just because their pain or their reaction to it is different than yours doesn't mean it's not real, and I don't think you should judge them for it. Sure it's not the same as what you do, but deciding that you know why they're really doing it, and what's going on in their lives, and making negative judgements about them based on that is exactly the same process that leads non-SIers to make negative judgements about what you would consider "real" SI.

Emotionally healthy, happy people don't feel the need to inflict injury on themselves. People who draw attention to their SI might be so lonely or so afraid of rejection that they feel that the only way they won't be alone or that people will like them is if they hurt themselves, or they might feel that hurting themselves is the only way that they can tell people that something is wrong and they need help. Whatever the purpose of SI, whether it's kept hidden or publicly displayed, it's always an act of despiration.

I think that while SI may not be any more accepted in the UK than it is here in the US, I think there it is publicized more in the UK. I know Harley has been on the news and the radio talking about RYL, and such. I've almost never seen any news/articles/radio reports on SI in the US. In fact, I can only think of one I've seen, and it was so awful I was embarrassed for the people who made it.

I remember someone posted a link to it on youtube on V2 a while back.

Perrsonally, I can't stand it when people SH, show it off, and basically shove it in peoples faces. I'm not possessive of SH, I wish I could be rid of it.

I just hate the fact that these people have basically fuelled hatred, and mockery towards people like us, who self harm secretly, ashamed of themselves.

We're not attention seeking emos, who only do it because of attention purposes.

It doesn't matter what your age or gender is, self harming = Emo now. And It's all thanks to people who self harm, and show it off as if they're proud.

It makes me sick.

I've found some people to very ignorant when it comes to SI. On another forum I post on, I asked something regarding alcohol and medication. Someone replied and accused me of wanting to kill myself...

I live in the Fresno area in California. Among the friends I used to have it was a very common and known about thing. Even the majority of people in the city I live in didn't even give it a second thought when they learned about someone doing it.

But, if you go to the city which I work in, which is a thirty minute drive from the city I live in, it's entirely different. It's an upper class city, rich snobs and whatnot. Heh, even the other day, when we were on the line at work, one of the ladies got a scratch on her wrist and started saying how she looked like a "slicer" and then changed it to "cutter" when someone asked what she meant. No one there does it and, to be honest, no one there would react well to it.

It all depends on the group of people you're talking about. The gangsters in the slum part of town will give you crap for it. The rockers will (mostly) understand. The skaters will tell you to go die already. The old people will try to send you to church.

And it's very hard to even get appointments here when you have insurance. My friend is on a four month waiting list just to get back on her medications for bipolar. Four months for a psych appointment. She's tried telling them she's suicidal, hallucinating (her bipolar causes her to have auditory and visual hallucinations), in need of hospitalization, and they're ignoring her and telling her they won't do anything until she has her appointment and that she can't have one for another four months.

I think the UK is just more open about the issues affecting its citizens. Here, lots of things are covered up and not discussed. Even in the threads I've read about sex education in schools, the responses from those in the UK showed that their schools are more open and useful in discussions about contraceptives and sex than here in the US where most things like that are considered too inappropriate to discuss.

You really think that normal, healthy girls would be that desperate for attention that they'd go so far as to hurt themselves? Even if they're doing it to try to fit with what's "in," being that desperate to fit in is a damn good indication that something is seriously wrong. Maybe social pressure to conform to certain unrealistic ideals is part of what's going on for some of these girls, but that's a legitimate issue for them, and there's almost always more than that going on as most girls face the same social pressures but don't resort to that extreme level of maladaptive attention seeking behavior.

Also, I want to point out that histrionic personality disorder is recognized as a psychiatric disorder in both the DSM-IV and the ICD-10, and presumably you wouldn't blame the patient for the symptoms of the disorder. Well, most psychiatric disorders, especially personality disorders, are simply extreme forms of normal behaviors and traits, and it follows that subclinical levels of the trait are not the individual's fault either.

But the point I'm trying to make is that SI done for attention is part of the "concept of SI" too. It's not a mockery of SI because it is SI, it's just done for very different reasons than what we do. It's only the interpretation of attention-seeking as superficial and fake that makes it a mockery of the behavior, and that comes from the people who interpret it that way, not the people who actually do it.

I completely understand why you don't like it when people use SI to get attention -- I don't like it either when I see people talking about SI as though it's always attention-seeking, and of course the fact that it sometimes is attention-seeking contributes that that. But I also think that if more people understood that extreme attention-seeking behaviors also come from real problems, and didn't judge them for it, then there'd be a lot less negative stereotypes of SI in general, and it would be a lot easier to get past the attention-seeking stereotype.

I just want to point out cause I've seen a lot of people saying that people in certain places don't SI as much as other places... there's a difference between not doing it and not letting anyone know you've done it. SI is actually relatively common among wealthier and supposedly higher functioning people, especially teens in very high pressured high schools, but it's more likely to be associated with perfectionism and feeling unable to live up to unreasonably high expectations, so people are more likely to be more careful to hide it... At my high school, the guidance counselor did a survey at one point that included a question about self harm, and some ridiculously high portion of people, I think over half the school, reported having intentionally hurt themselves at least once before, but there was only one person besides me in the entire school who I knew to have done it. My sister cut for a while, and I never knew about it... she's a straight A student, with near perfect SAT scores, probably headed for one of the top universities in the country - no way she was going to let anyone know she was cutting, as it would mean she's not perfect.

Not that you have to be a perfectionist to hide your SI, but my sister's a hell of a lot better than I am at not slipping up and letting people think something might be wrong or letting people see the cuts. People like her who care a lot about what people think of them, and have a lot of practice putting on a certain image and stuff are probably gonna be better at hiding it and less likely to ever admit to it.

I think that the actually incidence of SI is probably relatively even among different geographic areas (although there are pretty well documented age and gender differences), but it's probably more likely to stay hidden in subcultures that place a greater emphasis on hiding personal problems and projecting a perfect image for the public.

Here in Germany, the media also says a lot about "SI = borderline" or what is newer "SI = emo" but the borderline label is used more often.

There are at least two big German homepages about SI but SI is still quite a taboo, although the media says a lot about SIing (but in a bad tone).

But when it comes to confessing that you SI to friends and family most people react in a positive way and what is even more surprising almost everyone had known before at least one person who SIs and some even says that they did it, too.
Well, they still want YOU to stop and most people cannot understand that SI isn't anything that you can JUST stop and that's it.

My GP knows about my SI and she reacted nicely and I guess at least 50% of German docs react well when they see scars/ wounds because they have seen it before.