Sorry, know there's a thread on a simialr line to this but I have a question.
A while ago I had a sui plan and date, I told my care coordinator who then said she "had to" tell my dad. I was over 18 at the time but I'm still living with him. Did she break confidentiality illegally or is that allowed?
See I cannot feel this, not matter how you try and in the real world, there's no goodbyes.
Hmm.
Not really sure.
I know when I had my assessment, I ticked on the form that I didn't want my parents contacted. Although I'd change that now, and say it's ok, I've never been in such a severe situation.
I don't remember my assessment or signing any forms but that's because I was in hosp and really struggling at the time. I think I will ask Helen next time I see her but I'm sure she will say they can as it was her and her manager who have done it.
See I cannot feel this, not matter how you try and in the real world, there's no goodbyes.
I think as at the time he was your carer as you were living with him? even though you were over 18. Ive been told many times before that i have the right to confidentiality unless myself or others are at risk. I think that goes accross the board and as you were living with him they had to notify him so he could keep an eye on you as its the duty of care to you to do everything they can for your wellbeing and those around you.
Im not entirely sure though.. when you enter services you sign a consent form or something on mine i said i didnt want my mum to know anything (im over 18 now) but they said crucial information that puts her or me at risk has the right for them to break confidentiality.
“There is no sun without shadow, and it is essential to know the night.”
Well she did the right thing by telling you that she was going to tell someone - but there should have been a discussion with her trying to persuade you to agree with who to tell
I think that sounds legal to me. Confidentiality is broken when they have reason to believe you are in danger, and confirming a suicide plan puts you in danger.
Edited to add: although I would be angry too. But that's different. You should ask your care co-ordinator why she felt the need to tell your dad and not a MH professional.
Isn’t it funny how day by day nothing changes but when you look back, everything is different…
you once called your brain a hard drive, well say hello to the virus.
I had a similar situation where I confessed my sui plan to my GP and she asked if she could inform my partner. My reply was no but she said she was worried and begged me to allow her. I still said no yet she rang him anyway, I am 18 and thought she wouldn't be able to break confidentiality so easily. I feel sorry for you because I know how annoying it is! *hugs*
age is irrelevant when it comes to speaking to a therapist, doctor about severely hurting yourself, another person and/or the disclosure of abuse of a child. If there is concrete evidence - like a formulated plan, time, date etc, intention of the indivudal, then the professional as a duty of care to breach your confidentiality in order to provide you with help in whatever way that looks like for some that means ringing loved ones (parents, friends, partners), and police involvement where they have the ability to form/section an individual involuntary and/or if homocidial stuff is involved.
i know its very very shitty and a horrible invasion of trust BUT they are doing for your wellbeing regardless of what it feels like in the moment. I know from personal experience working in the field that make that decision with my clients is NEVER something that is decided upon easily or considered without much consideration.
I think its important to also point out that there is a very distinct difference between talking with your therapist about hurting yourself - in the self harm behaviour format, having thoughts about hurting yourself fatally, or thoughts about wanting to no longer be alive - than disclosing an intention that is going to be followed through to fatally hurt yourself unless intervention happens. Dialogue and communication is very important in the therapeutic alliance so if you share that lately you have been feeling blue doesn't mean you are going to wind up in the hospital.
I hope that this explanation is helpful. Just curious if you have ever spoke about your care coordinators decision to involve your loved ones? Sometimes it can be useful to hear their reasoning behind it, and assist in the reformulation of alliance and trust.
stay well.
life isn't about finding yourself, it's about creating yourself.
Becky, what they did counts as a legal breaking of confidentiality. When beginning any such relationship, the person needs to inform you that the sessions are confidential with the exception of times when you may be of significant risk to yourself. You should always be informed before hand that this is going to happen. The person contacted depends on circumstances, but is typically your Next of Kin - which is why your Dad would have been contacted on this occasion. This is irrespective of age.
As they informed you, after you presented a high level of risk, they have followed correct procedure.
It may be that sitting down and talking this through with them retrospectively will help you and maybe allow you to work out how best to approach this, should anything similar happen in the future. Perhaps you feel it was not discussed enough for you at the time? If so, maybe put this in your care plan so that more discussion happens in the future.
Be gentle with yourself.
Roiben x
Last edited by roiben : 03-05-2011 at 12:48 PM.
Reason: added a bit
If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we would be so simple that we wouldn't.
I wouldn't have that. Telling someone else, I wouldn't care so much about. But if I thought they would tell my parents something like that, I just would never speak to them of it.
I don't care how anyone thinks of parents and carers, my life would be a living hell if my parents were informed. At some point, I'd probably see it as not worth living through. Like they don't give me enough **** aleady, that'd just be something else they could use against.
I know for a fact my father thinks depression is all made up for attention seeking, and that suicide is ****ed up wannabe murderers, psychopaths, the kind that hurt animals for fun when they're kiddies. I do not want to live with that.
And my mother is narcissistic or something. She manages to turn every little thing that happens in my life to make it about her. I wouldn't be wanting to kill myself because I've given up seeing any reason in living a life where bad things happen more often than good ones. She'd make out that I was only doing it because I think she's a bitch and I wanna hurt her. Because I think she's a terrible mother and then she'll go on and on and on about HER childhood. I'm tired of being treated like I have no rights to the life I'm living, like my life is just an extension of hers.
Okay, so how is that better.
I don't want them to tell my parents, so I don't tell them when I'm on the very edge, which is perhaps something someone somewhere should know.
No positive outcome.
And what if you're someone with trust issues anyway, you trust somene enough to tell them what you're planning, they break that trust by going behind your back to tell your parents, and when you find out you go "I really can't trust anyone in this world" .....
I'm sorry for your situation. I know I would hate it, but I really hope it does work out okay for you.
"Alright, gang. I'll ignore that some of you are late... if you ignore that I'm the latest."
I've had this when I've threatened to carry out tasks set by the voices etc. When I lived with my parents and I was 19, they told my parents when I was wanting to do them because they always involved hurting others so I was very unsafe.
However now I have no contact with my mum and I have told all mental health services that they are not allowed to contact my mum about anything, no matter how serious, because she is abusive to me. They can tell my dad, but only with my permission (they asked my permission if they could tell my dad I'm in hopsital while he was a business trip for example).
However the carers at my supported housing are told every time I am at high risk because they are carers.
PM me if you want a PDF copy of the ICD-10or the Mental Health Act 1983/2007. I ALSO HAVE THE DSM-V BOOK and am a pharmacology student.
I have a visual impairment / neurological problems so I need people to type in clear text and no funny fonts. Also excuse any typos, my vision blocks things out.
I have autism and have problems communicating, PMs included.
Just becasue I type well doesn't mean I speak well. I am only part time verbal.
I wouldn't have that. Telling someone else, I wouldn't care so much about. But if I thought they would tell my parents something like that, I just would never speak to them of it.
I don't care how anyone thinks of parents and carers, my life would be a living hell if my parents were informed. At some point, I'd probably see it as not worth living through.
And what if you're someone with trust issues anyway, you trust somene enough to tell them what you're planning, they break that trust by going behind your back to tell your parents, and when you find out you go "I really can't trust anyone in this world" .....
I really agree with the post above.
I can, and do, understand the need to break confidentially, but not when that is going to make the situation worse than it already is, surely that is not going to help?
And I know for a fact if someone did that to me, I'd never ever talk to or trust any professional again and then I would be backed into a corner, because there would be no one to trust.
I hope everything's okay. xx
'You never know how strong you are, until being strong is your only choice'
Thanks everyone for the advice and support. I'm seeing my care coordinator on Friday so I will ask what their confidentiality rules are.
I understand that if I'm a risk to myself or others they have to tell someone else but I thought past 18 they couldn't tell your parents without you permission, just another MH worker.
I don't remember agreeing to them being able to tell my dad stuff and I know when he rings up when he's concerned they don't tell him anything I've said so I guess I must have agreed to them telling him if I'm at a high levedl of risk. Will ask about this on Friday.
See I cannot feel this, not matter how you try and in the real world, there's no goodbyes.
Becky, I imagine that as you were living with your Dad when your care plan was originally written, your Dad would be listed as your carer and next of kin.
It is also worth noting that at times of diminished responsibility, the health service will always default to your next of kin, in case they need to take up power of attorney (i.e make decisions on your behalf). They contact an mh professional also, but not exclusively.
Bear in mind, in terms of comments about "going behind your back" - This is something they should not do. If someone is of high risk and confidentiality needs to be breached, they have to inform the individual/patient that they are needing to do this.
Roiben x
If the Human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we would be so simple that we wouldn't.
PM me if you want a PDF copy of the ICD-10or the Mental Health Act 1983/2007. I ALSO HAVE THE DSM-V BOOK and am a pharmacology student.
I have a visual impairment / neurological problems so I need people to type in clear text and no funny fonts. Also excuse any typos, my vision blocks things out.
I have autism and have problems communicating, PMs included.
Just becasue I type well doesn't mean I speak well. I am only part time verbal.
they have done this to me many times but that is because they have a duty of care and need to inform my parents so they can try and "stop" me if they havent sectioned me!
they have only ever done it when they have told me they are going to do it because if they didnt tell you then i think that would be breaking some rule! it is awful and made me learn to just not tell people which is a bad thing really but i understand why they have to do it because if they didnt tell your next of kin and you attempted or actually killed yourself they would be in so much trouble and would probably be fired or sued or something! so its to cover there back really and some of them do actually care about you and want you to be safe!
