In RYL v2, we had a rule saying no-one under the age of thirteen could join. However, this didn't work and we were still getting younger people joining. The thing is, seeing as this is a support site, we're not going to tell someone under thirteen to leave the site, simply because they've joined because they need help.
Nat, that wasn't an RYL 2 rule, that is, in fact, the law - a law that is still in place today, as far as I'm aware. It's due to child protection.
I think that we all need to take a step back and look at RYL from an objective angle. A lot of people are saying "... but keep that thread because I like it". In principle, that's fine, but if RYL is to take the direction that Harley seems keen to pursue - that is, by going much more media-orientated, and SI-aware - we need to seriously consider how RYL is going to look to people who approach it. I know that it has been raised before, but I'm just reiterating it for importance.
While we know the nature of the forum, a lot of newer people wouldn't. In the same way, Veterans Corner can be percieved in one way, that is completly unintended, by somebody who doesn't know the people in it or the nature of the forum very well.
And Blithe Bones Of Ladon - while a lot of what you are saying is definite food for thought, and is definitely interesting discussion points, perhaps they are wider issues that need to be tackled once RYL has settled down more, especially with the changeover to v.3, and the new mods. Then, perhaps, it might be easier to get a balanced understanding of what you are saying.
I have to say, however, I'm so very impressed with how eloquently people are expressing their points, and how they're respecting each others points in such a way. It's really a testament to the maturity of the members of RYL!
p.s. Sorry for the over-complex language, that was nasty reading it back. I'm getting A-level withdrawal, I think!
We have dealt with real and more serious issues in trying to keep sexual predators away from RYL. There is a good deal you do not know about.
If you say there have been serious issues with sexual predators and that there is a good deal I don't know about - all I can say is I totally believe you and am not surprised AT ALL. We are going to have even more issues I am sure - the way the standards are lowered here for all the world to see. "Mamas watch your babies" is all I can say for now.
I think that we all need to take a step back and look at RYL from an objective angle. A lot of people are saying "... but keep that thread because I like it". In principle, that's fine, but if RYL is to take the direction that Harley seems keen to pursue - that is, by going much more media-orientated, and SI-aware - we need to seriously consider how RYL is going to look to people who approach it. I know that it has been raised before, but I'm just reiterating it for importance
I personally think RYL is spectacular with regards to moderating and all that jazz-- for all the criticism I've read in this thread alone, people should really remember how many moderators there are and compare that to a daily post count on RYL. Could you do it?
Also-- before anyone complains about what the mods have / haven't done, did you do everything in your power to help? They're not gods... they don't see and know everything; therefore, it's up to us to help them out when we can.
That being said, RYL is definately entering the media stage and people should be aware of that, to echo Doodahdoo. Imagine entering RYL from an objective perspective and seeing a lot of these hijacked threads. It's a little less inappropriate when it happens in somewhere like Vets, but still...
The only suggestion I would have is to be more strict with the adult labels, that way it is less likely that someone would be able to say they weren't properly warned. I realize it might be difficult to identify hijacked threads, especially if members don't cooperate, but it's just a suggestion.
Like previously pointed out, setting age limits for adult content doesn't make very much sense as (a) it will motivate younger members to lie about their age in order to access it; and (b) you can't define maturity by an age. The only options for an age limit would have to be 18/19/21, and I'm sure most would agree that sexual questions and such become an issue well before that.
It might be that a younger member accesses RYL for support, but needs support of an 'adult' nature. Given the discussion about how RYL is a support website, I think it might be difficult to justify denying them access to information and support that could help them.
So, thank you, Typsee, for asking this question, and giving people an opportunity to respond (in mostly mature manners...). All the mods on here are doing a great job, and I really appreciate it. Keep up the good work =)
I personally think RYL is spectacular with regards to moderating and all that jazz-- for all the criticism I've read in this thread alone, people should really remember how many moderators there are and compare that to a daily post count on RYL. Could you do it?
Yes. I did News forum for a year. Read/scanned about 25 articles a day. It wasn't as busy as General but it took more time to read. I had to edit exactly one post in a year. People knew I was there everyday and alert - and wasn't going to let trash go on. We were all nice nice. Showing up and seeing whats in front of you (2 minutes) is most of the battle.
If others do feel exactly how you do, then they should say so.
Typsee was asking for people's opinions. She didn't say "come praise RYL", she's looking for input.
You don't understand most kids (especially SI kids) if you think they are going to post up against a mod bucking a position they made a point of showing they support. It is important to see that with all the views of this post most of the people in support of the status quo are the people you would expect (the spammers etc, mod buddies etc). The silence in support from people not at center of issues is really quite large. I always said the quietness from parts of a forum is as important as the noise if not more so. Its often been a problem here that the loudest 21 people here often have more bearing on issues as the other 9000. Its hard to be insightful and you have to cultivate understanding about these things. Damn if it isn't very hard here.
You don't understand most kids (especially SI kids) if you think they are going to post up against a mod bucking a position they made a point of showing they support. It is important to see that with all the views of this post most of the people in support of the status quo are the people you would expect (the spammers etc, mod buddies etc). The silence in support from people not at center of issues is really quite large. I always said the quietness from parts of a forum is as important as the noise if not more so. Its often been a problem here that the loudest 21 people here often have more bearing on issues as the other 9000. Its hard to be insightful and you have to cultivate understanding about these things. Damn if it isn't very hard here.
If what you're saying is true, and these other 9000 people are silenced, then this is a chance for them to give their input, surely?
And you can't just expect to be a spokesperson for everyone that doesn't post often, or assume that everyone feels the same way about this as you do.
If they do, great. Post about it. I'm sure they'll have you to back up their views. If not, then it'd probably be best to stop implying that you're speaking on behalf of everyone else.
It is so easy to criticise, isn't it? So much harder to think of solutions.
Solutions are easy. Have a set of easy common sense rules people can know and follow. Show up and be consistent in the application of protocols - protocols that support the overall forum and not the this or that clique. Not having the same 5 people spam everybody's threads with 2 and three pages of rude sloppy nonsense for months on end is an example. I could go on but the people who "get it" already do.
If what you're saying is true, and these other 9000 people are silenced, then this is a chance for them to give their input, surely?
And you can't just expect to be a spokesperson for everyone that doesn't post often, or assume that everyone feels the same way about this as you do.
If they do, great. Post about it. I'm sure they'll have you to back up their views. If not, then it'd probably be best to stop implying that you're speaking on behalf of everyone else.
I never said I spoke for everyone. I said I know a lot of people have seen RYL sliding the past year - especially people who knew it before this years deteriorations that were blamed on V3 construction .
If you cared so much about RYL you could help be not messing up so many posts with silly spam of no consequence. Truth is though you being 14 I don't blame you because modding 101 says you dont let people endlessly spam and hijack threads.
I didn't start this thread and have never started a thread complaining about RYL. I also articulate a comprehensive and thorough set of observations as they stack up against the test of time and the soundness of principle. Nobody really refutes those but move on to excuses or accusations that I am kind enough to not pick apart and decimate in public.
Jack .... if we were to create an RYL site the way you would like to see it, I believe that it wouldnt be too long before people would vote with their feet and get the heck outta here!
And that is MY opinion solely, but that is based on my 3 plus years of modding here at RYL (and 4 plus years of memberhip), and also the reactions that I've seen to the many different rules (harsh and lenient) that have come and gone in that time.
Also .... it is my experience that young members are not so reluctant to raise opinions that are opposite to what a person in a position of authority might think.
I spend quite alot of my time in Private messages with members, defending our current rules with people who arent very happy that I've edited or moved their posts or threads .... and the people who argue the point most often, would be in the 13 to 17 age bracket.
I think the days where young people cower in fear at disagreeing with a person in a position of authority, are long gone! I think it may be you who is out of touch with what the young members want here at RYL, yet you dare to speak on behalf of 'SI kids' (?).
I'm twice the age of these kids, so I can only go by my experience here at RYL ... and I dont know whether my modding experience is indicative of what the majority of young people here at RYL think and want in a website .... and this is the reason why I wanted to create this thread - to get more opinions. And I've invited people to contact me by PM or email if they are reluctant to express their opinions so openly ... and they can also contact me anonymously if they wanted to.
I think the mods and administration of RYL are in a no win situation with you Jack, because you always seem to be giving excuses as to why you arent getting the overwhelming support that you are expecting for YOUR viewpoint ... which is kinda weird dont you think, seeing as you speak for so many RYLers!
If people were so unhappy with how things are at RYL, then why dont they vote with their feet?
I've heard you talk about the 'decline of RYL' quite often, yet I have not seen the decline in membership numbers, nor a decline in the overall happiness and satisfaction with the website .... and these are things that you'd EXPECT to see if so many people were unhappy with the way things are here currently.
Loyalty to a website would also last so long ... surely!
By no means I am suggesting that RYL is perfect ... but I dont think its the cess pool that you are implying either. And I dont think it possible for a website to reach perfection, seeing as we are all imperfect people, making imperfect rules to follow, and will make mistakes and stuff up often!
I wasnt going to speak out and go public with what I thought about this issue because I didnt want to influence anyone ... and I really mean that! But Jack - I feel you have forced my hand in sharing some of my thoughts regarding this issue, as I cannot leave some of the things you've said go unchallenged any longer.
modding 101 also says you dont delete anyone's thread without having good reason ... and I dont see people having fun and posting with each other, as being reason to delete someone's thread.
i think there ARE some people who are worried to post bad things on here about ryl. you mentioned putting an annonymous poll up, i think you should,so that the people who maybe dont want to give a negative opinion or whatever get a say too.
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
modding 101 also says you dont delete anyone's thread without having good reason ... and I dont see people having fun and posting with each other, as being reason to delete someone's thread.
That's what I was going to say, I highly doubt there'd be much acitivity if every thing that was deleted because it was considered spam or even hijacking to a certian extent, how are you going to write a rule for that huh? Even this thread was formed by hijacking. Arn't we hijacking it now, anyway? We're not discuss the original content, so, shall I be edited?
I think the mods and administration of RYL are in a no win situation with you Jack, because you always seem to be giving excuses as to why you arent getting the overwhelming support that you are expecting for YOUR viewpoint ... which is kinda weird dont you think, seeing as you speak for so many RYLers!
Well I have been here 4 years almost. I only started making complaints last Fall when a member was consistently and obviously making false OD posts and getting kids stirred up. A bunch of mods at the time were caught-up with their own issues and it was obvious the ship was adrift and its never caught up again. That together with the bad Meet situation showed RYL was inviting some risks and probably biting off more than it can handle with the staff it has.
Its not because I don't like RYL I would say something. I really don't care about getting "support". I am grown and I know the difference between right and wrong and it bothers me not at all to have to go against the grain. I don't care about what people are doing with their feet but lots of members who were here before the present year of disintegrations also said RYL was losing its soul and said as much in other threads. If people weren't so defensive of indefensible things they could see what the problems are and how easy they are to fix. Its not things that are wrong that are so big its the denial of the problems that show where this is all headed. Keep in mind I don't even start threads to put forth my viewpoint. I just answer other peopls threads after other have also complained about the same things.
"The way some members have talked about this, I get the impression that they feel that RYL is way too LENIENT about allowing members to discuss these more 'adult' topics, and that we shouldnt be so relaxed in our approach to allowing posts, threads and jokes about these topics, considering all the young people we have as members ....."
Those are your words alluding to the complaints/observations of others. I merely artucluate in more precise fashion than not why things are as wrong as they are. People then don't get mad at me for being wrong as much as they get mad at me for being right.
I am a nice enough guy and can be entertaining or compliemtary of RYL or whatever - and have done that often enough . If I just wanted to come here for spits and giggles and have fun with a gaggle of buddies I already had that and then let it go because MUCH more serious things were going wrong. I have no desire to be on staff at all and thats known. RYL has always tilted into chaos now and then but people eventually got on the ball and things righted. That doesn't happen anymore. Personally I don't care about my standing. I actually like kids here and I have seen them getting worse here lately.
Sorry for purple but the code put that in upon my quote. Anyway, another over-the-top reply about me that has no real bearing on issues (that others raised)
That's what I was going to say, I highly doubt there'd be much acitivity if every thing that was deleted because it was considered spam or even hijacking to a certian extent, how are you going to write a rule for that huh? Even this thread was formed by hijacking. Arn't we hijacking it now, anyway? We're not discuss the original content, so, shall I be edited?
Original content IS being discussed Ames. Nobody is saying there is a need for onerous deletions. People here are more than aware of the spam I refer too and even mods trying to disagree with me have edited it and/or moved threads. That people keep doing it anyway shows what they think of mods. But as I said before, when people dont want to deal with problems they make the person who talks about the problems the problem. Its like a dysfunctional family where people feel compelled to have to say everything is really "wonderful" and you pay the price if you don't. Luckily I don't get confused at all.
I think that Blithe Bones Of Ladon has some very good points. We do need more staff members on RYL, and while I know that there are three new - fantastic - mods, that isn't enough.
However, typsee also makes some very, very good points - especially about the communication between members, regarding issues with the forums.
I am inclined to say that while this discussion is very interesting, and very relevent - it isn't tackling the issue, per ce, of what to do about younger people viewing rather adult threads. The debates that are happening are challenging the rules of RYL, the nature of the community - which is always changing, always developing.
Currently, RYL is going through a major shift - people are still settling down with the new forum, with the new boards. This means that inevitably, there will be a lot of discussion and effectivly, turmoil happening through the forums. While it's easy to make judgements on the forum at present, the people in it are constantly changing, and the nature of the forum, constantly developing. What this means, at present, is that I think it's difficult to judge how well the forum is functioning as a whole - a classic example is the Please remember the Alert a Mod feature! thread - some people only just learned what the function did. This is bound to have an effect on the functions use, and thus, how fast the response to somewhat rule-defying posts are dealt with.
As I said in my previous post, I think we need to wait and see what RYL is like when it settles down more, when the newer mods become more accustomed to the forums, and things settle down a little more.
To be honest, I can clearly see both sides of the argument here - and I do think that each one has a lot of grounding.
