Sometimes people are hypersensitive because they are mentally ill, like me. I'm just saying its not just the hyper/supersensitive people that need to grow up. Not all hypersensitive people are immature.
This.
And not all immature people are hypersensitive either for that matter.
And I don't think that people should have to apologise for being honest and truthful with somebody, if it's not done in a cruel way.
eg - to use Fi's example:
"You need to stop whining and get off your bum and actually do something, you're never going to get over this if you don't"
Rather than
"for ****s sake, you're moaning again! Shut the **** up, go out there and do something"
Last edited by Dreaming. : 25-02-2009 at 06:41 PM.
The times I have been helped most have been the times people have been honest and even blunt with me.
There's only so much a few hugs andsoft words can do. It has been when people have given me a kick up the arse as you might say that has literally saved my life before.
I wouldn't say I was ever too thrilled with it at the time, often hurt and angry. But I'd rahter be pissed off for a few hours and still be alive now then to be wrapped up in cotton wool and then kil myself because people have been too afraid of rules and of being taken the wrong way to tell me what I've needed to be told.
Instead of saying stop whining, I try to ask "what are you willing to do to solve this problem"
We're all sensitive here. We're all here because we need help. I try to not report things unless it directly disregards ryl rules or otherwise threatens their emotional and physical safety.
My husband is my best friend.
In forgiving others, we are not exonerating them. They may not deserve exoneration. Rather, in forgiving others we are giving up our anger over the fact that what happened is not what "should" have happened or that our life is not the way it "should" have been.
Excuse me? Don't just throw that word around. If you think that what goes on here even comes near to abuse then you clearly don't know the meaning of the word.
I'm really not making a personal attack here, I have an honest question.
How is your above comment not showing hypersensitivity? Abuse/abusive is a word with a couple of different meanings, and can have different levels of severity attached to it. I actually think it was the perfect word to use to describe how some people talk to other people on RYL at times.
As for the issue of people being mean, I think if you are trying to give someone honest, blunt, or straight forward advice you should really be careful of how you word things. As in Jo's example, you can say one thing 2 entierly different ways.
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
I'm really not making a personal attack here, I have an honest question.
How is your above comment not showing hypersensitivity? Abuse/abusive is a word with a couple of different meanings, and can have different levels of severity attached to it. I actually think it was the perfect word to use to describe how some people talk to other people on RYL at times.
Well I am one of these people who can come across as mean and rude becuase I am sometimes blunt, and to be called abusive (Implying bullying is going on) is quite unreasonable, I think my reaction was justified.
If you know someone you can talk to them differently. But if you're seeing someone you don't talk to much and you say
"You need to stop whining and get off your bum and actually do something, you're never going to get over this if you don't"
They're going to think they don't deserve to ask for help becasue people think they're just whining! There's honest and polite and then there's honest and rude. And if you don't know someone that can be considered rude.
It's not really that hard to just say
"If you're still feeling like this, it's time to reach out to someone who can help you in real life. We're here to support you but you really need to make that next step otherwise you're going to be stuck in this..."
Now i've told people to quit whining and get off their bum and do something about it. But only people I know pretty well! I've told other people the same thing but dressed it up so it looks softer than it is.
It's not that hard to be soft and pushy at the same time and when so many people on here are fragile that soft approach is important unless you know them well enough to shove the soft to the side.
In the end you can be seen as a total bitch even when you're just "being honest". I have seen and worked with a lot of professionals and none of them have ever told a client to stop whining and get off their bum and do something about it. How is that being helpful? Would get translated to: You have no problems. All your doing is whinging. Get over it.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
Well I am one of these people who can come across as mean and rude becuase I am sometimes blunt, and to be called abusive (Implying bullying is going on) is quite unreasonable, I think my reaction was justified.
It's all about perspective though. What one person make see as bullying/abusive behavior another person may not see that way. To call somebody's opinion unreasonable because you took it personally isn't really fair either. She may not have been talking about you at all.
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
If you know someone you can talk to them differently. But if you're seeing someone you don't talk to much and you say
"You need to stop whining and get off your bum and actually do something, you're never going to get over this if you don't"
They're going to think they don't deserve to ask for help becasue people think they're just whining! There's honest and polite and then there's honest and rude. And if you don't know someone that can be considered rude.
It's not really that hard to just say
"If you're still feeling like this, it's time to reach out to someone who can help you in real life. We're here to support you but you really need to make that next step otherwise you're going to be stuck in this..."
Now i've told people to quit whining and get off their bum and do something about it. But only people I know pretty well! I've told other people the same thing but dressed it up so it looks softer than it is.
It's not that hard to be soft and pushy at the same time and when so many people on here are fragile that soft approach is important unless you know them well enough to shove the soft to the side.
In the end you can be seen as a total bitch even when you're just "being honest". I have seen and worked with a lot of professionals and none of them have ever told a client to stop whining and get off their bum and do something about it. How is that being helpful? Would get translated to: You have no problems. All your doing is whinging. Get over it.
EXACTLY.
Also, someone said that sometimes being blunt helps. Well maybe that works for you, but surely you understand that for some people, especially fragile, vulnerable people (ie. the majority of people on RYL), thats only going to make them feel worse? A lot of people don't want to just be told to stop whining, especially if they're looking for advice regarding a personal problem or dilemma, or if they're having desperate urges to cut and they want to be distracted. If that was you, would you want someone telling you to shut up and deal with it?
I'm not saying you should coddle everyone here all the time. But with most people, especially people you don't know, you should assume that they don't want a "blunt" response.
And if you don't want to have to watch what you say, then don't say anything.
I'm in agreement with Fi although i am also in agreement in regards to wording things properly.
I often worry over how i'm wording things when giving advice/support incase it comes off wrongly. I'm all for someone being forward and straight to the point with me, but i want to be spoken to like an adult, not a child.
So, go for blunt, just mind how you word things.
But i think the OP originally made this post because she's noticing lots of sarcastic/snide unnecessary remarks - which i have also been noticing, and these remarks have nothing to do with support threads. It's just general chit chat where people are just being ignorant unnecessarily.
And if you don't want to have to watch what you say, then don't say anything.
That's a dangerous thing to say. If all of us who feel like we have to watch what we say stop saying anything then I think you would find that the number of people offering support would dramatically decrease.
i dont mind people being honest its when that person isnt tackful about it like saying ... "thats not nice/pretty/whatever" isnt tacful in my opion but if it was said like "personally i dont like it blah blah blah" is tacful.
and personaly i think that if you dont like something or find it annoying just dont reply.
and just on the abusive note : i dont think it was a bad word to use because there are many different variations of abuse and to different people its different things and with everything its not how its intended its how its taken. like if you jokenly call a mate chub chub (i was called that by a mate) he meant it as a joke but it was taken as an offence.
i like bambi's mum "if you dont got something nice to say dont say nothing"
If you know someone you can talk to them differently. But if you're seeing someone you don't talk to much and you say
"You need to stop whining and get off your bum and actually do something, you're never going to get over this if you don't"
They're going to think they don't deserve to ask for help becasue people think they're just whining! There's honest and polite and then there's honest and rude. And if you don't know someone that can be considered rude.
That example isn't rude, in the slightest. Which part do you think is rude? And why? If I had said "****sake, you need to stop moaning and get off your lazy ****ing arse. If you don't, you're going to carry on just being as pathetically self pitying as you are now, ugh." Well that would be honest and rude :|
What is it exactly about "You need to stop whining and get off your bum and actually do something, you're never going to get over this if you don't" that would cause someone to feel like they don't deserve to ask for help? You sound as if you're making stuff up, I really don't understand how that could possibly cause someone to feel that badly.
And this is the internet, no one really knows anyone on here (Except those who have made good friends, met offline loads and stuff)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess
"If you're still feeling like this, it's time to reach out to someone who can help you in real life. We're here to support you but you really need to make that next step otherwise you're going to be stuck in this..."
Cotton wool everywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess
It's not that hard to be soft and pushy at the same time and when so many people on here are fragile that soft approach is important unless you know them well enough to shove the soft to the side.
Clearly that's where our views differ because I think msot people on here just need a kick up the bum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess
In the end you can be seen as a total bitch even when you're just "being honest". I have seen and worked with a lot of professionals and none of them have ever told a client to stop whining and get off their bum and do something about it. How is that being helpful? Would get translated to: You have no problems. All your doing is whinging. Get over it.
I know You can be seen as a total bitch, but I think a kick up the bum is what people can benefit from. No one is a professional here, it's just a website and ofcourse we all know that every preofessional does their job perfectly and everyone leaves happy 100% of the time. No one ever complains or changes therapist, y'know?
At the opposite end it could also be translated to: I keep wallowing, that's what bringing me down, I should listen, ultimately only I can help myself.
Didn't mean to pick your post appart, it was justt he easiest way to reply :/
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Aidey~
It's all about perspective though. What one person make see as bullying/abusive behavior another person may not see that way. To call somebody's opinion unreasonable because you took it personally isn't really fair either. She may not have been talking about you at all.
It is about perspective, I know that. He may not have been talking about me, but I wans't exclusively talking about me, about anyone who dares to speak their mind. So I wasn't calling it unreasonable because it was personal, I was calling it unreasonable because I thought it was unreasonable, you see how that works? (Oh my, I was just slightly rude, do shoot me)(And now sarcastic, I deserve to die)
I don't think I've ever truly seen bullying behaviour out in the open here at RYL, which is why I thought the comment made no sense.
With this there are people who are too sensitive to comments, but there is still flat out rudeness, I recognise that. I'm not saying that all comments deemed as 'rude' are just being honest, I know that's not the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob--Attorney-At-Law
EXACTLY.
Also, someone said that sometimes being blunt helps. Well maybe that works for you, but surely you understand that for some people, especially fragile, vulnerable people (ie. the majority of people on RYL), thats only going to make them feel worse? A lot of people don't want to just be told to stop whining, especially if they're looking for advice regarding a personal problem or dilemma, or if they're having desperate urges to cut and they want to be distracted. If that was you, would you want someone telling you to shut up and deal with it?
And if you don't want to have to watch what you say, then don't say anything.
Well yes being blunt works for me, but I'm also a fragile and vulnerable person, so it doesn't always make people feel worse, on account of many people I've talked to responding well to my being blunt.
Just for the record, also, if someone is looking for advice and I can help them with it, ofcourse I will help them, I'm nto going to tell them to shutup and deal on their own, that would deifnitely be rude. It is when I see someone seemingly needing advice for something just so ridiculous and pathetic that it drives me mental I would be mroe blunt. I'll always be honest with someone, and I'll always say it as it is. And if I'mt alking with someone and they just want to moan (There is a LOT of that here) then ofcourse I'm not going to just there and waste my time when they're not even listening to me so I'll say "If you actually want anyhting to change, you need to stop moaning and do something about it" It's sound advice and certain people need it.
If someone wants advice, I'll give it to them, if someone just wants to moan and not take any attention of what I'l saying to them, why should you bother wrapping them in cotton wool when they won't even care?
I'm not saying that everyon should just shutup and deal with their problems, and if you think that then you read my posts wrong.
"stop whining" isn't nice. When you add stop whining get of your bum and do somethign abou tit.... well plenty of epople are going to end up upset from it.
Just becasue it helps you doesn't meant it's going to help others.
It's like saying "no one reads those - I don't" which is saying that you odn't read them, therefore no one does. You don't get upset when people tell you to quit your whining but that doesn't meant that no one does.
You (and this isn't directed at one person, this is a collective "you") can't lump everyone together. "i don't do this, therefore no one does"
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
"stop whining" isn't nice. When you add stop whining get of your bum and do somethign abou tit.... well plenty of epople are going to end up upset from it.
Just becasue it helps you doesn't meant it's going to help others.
It's like saying "no one reads those - I don't" which is saying that you odn't read them, therefore no one does. You don't get upset when people tell you to quit your whining but that doesn't meant that no one does.
You (and this isn't directed at one person, this is a collective "you") can't lump everyone together. "i don't do this, therefore no one does"
Look, Ic an turn this on it's head and direct it at you.
Just because you like to wrap everyone in cotton wool and molly coddle and make everyone your best friend, doesn't mean that eevryone likes ot be treated like that. People can get upset from it as it can in many cases ocme across as insanely patronising, like talking to someone like a child.
Just becuase that helps you doesn't mean it helps others.
Zomg luk wot i did.
I know you can't lump everyone together, I'm not stupid. Not everyone like to be spoken to bluntly, just like nto everyone likes ot be spoken to like theyr'e about to break.
exactly. so you can talk to some people the way you said and you can't talk to others. But what it comes across as you're saying that since you like it, you talk to everyone else like that and they should just deal with it.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
I didn't say that, you took it like that. But what's coming across from you is the exact same thing, just at the other end of the spectrum.
If someone doesn't like what I have said to them they can ignore it, but if they report it to a mod and a mod contacts me and I think it's unfair I'm not going to sit there and accept that I got a few points because someone can't tell the difference between being rude and being bluntly honest.
