Getting help....Stupidity Rains...
 

Hello,

I have been venting here about my fustration about trying to get help through mental health. But yesturday morning I was feeling suicidal and was talking to a hotline. Not a surprise when the police showed up. Of course they swore up and down that they could make mental health help me. In the end I had the option to go willingly with them or on a 5150 involontary hold. Obviously I went willingly, I am not a fan of being handcuffed.

So anyway, after sitting at the hosptial ER for 5 hours mental health called to tell them to send me home. They told me if I am still feeling suicidal I should do a walk in appointment to mental health. I was like "WHAT!!". When your suicidal, first of all, your supposed to go to the ER to be seen, since it was 5am at the time. Second of all, mental health was supposed to come to the ER to talk with me.

Anyway, I left the ER and went over to mental health to see someone over there about the situation. When I got there, I walked up to the window to sign in. Up walks Tod, the supervisor for the therapists there. The guy that has been blocking me for services for the past several months. He asks me if there is anything he can help me with, I told him no and go about what I am doing. He goes into the office and tells the woman to give him my case. I asked her if I was going to be seeing Tod, and she confirmed yes.

I told her I didn't want to see him and would wait as long as it took to see someone else since clearly I seem to have a conflict with him. Tod found out about the change and came over and told me he was going to tell the other therapist interviewing me about my insurance situation and not to help me either. Which did nothing but futher piss me off. I told him "what ever you want to do Tod", and he walked away. I sat there for 3 hours waiting to be seen.

I finally saw a man who told me no matter how many times I come, because of my insurance, they will never give me services. That if I want a therapist, I will cancel my credit cards and let them go to collections, turn off internet, cable tv, cell phone and let my car get repoed. Just have rent, food and electric and have the rest of the money go to a therapist. Or the other advice was get off of disability and work a job to pay for a therapist. First of all, if I could work, I wouldn't be on DISABILITY!!. Darn idiot therapist. Second of all, if my problems were not as bad as they are, I would not have been fired from my last job in the first place. No one is going to hire me in this condition.

I just don't know what to do. If I can't even get help from mental health being suicidal and being brought into the ER by the police, what else can I do to find help? Where can I possibly go? I have called every county office I could think off, I have called all my medical insurance cards for advice, called all the local therapists offices in the area for advice on what to do. Everyone says to go to mental health, that they will take care of you.

I tried to find a way to cancel the medi-care, the problem insurance. The only way to get rid of it is to get off of disability and then re-apply. A process which can take 6 months to a year. I would do it if I was able to be without the cash assitance and medical insurance for that long of time. But I depend on it to survive, it's just not a option I can do to fix the problem. So what am I supposed to do? It's very fustraighting.

-Stanley

What an awful experience! Perhaps you could look into finding a therapist who's not associated with this system? Some even charge on a sliding scale, so the cost wouldn't be as big of an issue. Or you could look into a university setting- while students might do some of the counseling, they are pretty heavily supervised in difficult cases. It really, really sucks that your particular insurance doesn't cover mental health as much as it needs to. It's sad when mental health people are supposed to help you and end up making things worse :(

Hi stanley. I would make a lot of phonecalls to different therapists office until you find one that you can afford. Does medicare not cover therapy at all? Don't give up on getting help. Maybe you need to let the police handcuff you and take you to the hospital next time to make them take you seriously. Do what you have to do to get help without anyone, including yourself, getting hurt.

Hi Stanley,
I've put off replying to your post because I did not have anything helpful to say. Just wanted to let you know that I saw your thread and that I care. No one should have to go through what you have had to in the last months and years to get help.
Susan

Hello,

It has been many years since a day like yesterday. It was a day right out of my childhood. I had gone down to the ER to once again fight to get services, however DJ my best friend was getting out the same day. I was hoping I would be long done by then. But mental health was dragging out the time to do everything. Well I got the call that DJ was done and released from the hospital so I told the ER doctor that I had to go and pick up DJ and bring him home.

The doctor told me I could not leave, that if I left I would be tracked down and brought back by PD. No one else could pick up DJ so I didn't really have a choice. I waited for him to walk away and I walked out, and drove home. I picked up my brothers girlfriend just in case I got stopped and picked up on the way to pick up DJ. That way she could continue on to pick up DJ. Anyway, I drove to the other hospital DJ was at, picked him up and took him home.

By the time I got home there was a police car waiting on the street. I pulled into the driveway and the cop followed. I calmly walked into the house as if there was nothing wrong. DJ was still outside when the police got out of the car and stopped him. They were asking where I was. Everyone was trying to hide me, which I wish they wouldn't do. It's never worth the trouble they could get into for trying to protect me. I mean I appresciate the help, but it's not worth it.

Anyway, about 30 minutes later and 4 cop cars later they came to the door and finally decided to check me out. Of course the found I am who I was. Here is where the lies begin. The police tell everyone here I will transported to back to the ER on a 5150 hold and then probably released right away. Oh so wrong. Everyone belived them, but me. Instead of dragging it out further for everyone in the apartment building to see, I decided to go peacefully.

It was around 5pm in the afternoon. Everyone was home from work, kids home from school and everyone was hanging out and now watching the activity. We walked out calmly to the police cars. That's where my gut feeling was right. I was searched and then handcuffed in front of everyone. There was not going to be a peaceful ride at all. After the ride in non air conditioned police car in 111 degree weather we arrived at the ER. I was still kept in handcuffs for another 45 minutes. Now I could understand the need if I was violent or something. But I hadn't threatened or anything.

So now they want urine and blood samples and the whole nine. When they take vitals, big surprise, my blood presure it hella high. Now they want to shoot me up with adtivan. I am not one for being drugged so I declined. Their like "You might be having a heart problem". Nope, it's stress and fear of hospitals. Nothing else. So after a half hour I am taken back to the cop car to be taken to mental health. But, opps, BP shoots up high again. I am taken back inside the ER. Still in handcuffs during all this.

About 10 minutes later they have the guard from the hospital take over and the handcuffs are removed and the cop leaves. 1 hour later of waiting I hear DJ and my brothers GF arrived. They won't let them back to be with me. So they had to just sit and wait in the waiting room. The doctor comes in finally and asks all the normal 5150 questions. Are you suicidal, do you hear voices, do you see things and so on. No to all of course. At this point I am extreamly upset and just want to leave. After a refusal to a EKG I signed my release papers and finally went home.

Now I have been trying to quit self injury for a long time. My normal session takes both sides of one arm and one side of the other. yesterday to get control back it took both sides of both arm and expanding to both of my upper shoulders. A place I have never self injured in before. The day with the police and hospital was right out of my childhood. Not quite as bad as what happens in the nightmares, but it was still very hard to handle. I couldn't wait to get home and SI, just to get control back. In the ER was one flashback after another. It's an experience I do not wish to experience again. It was then that I decided indeed enough was enough. I am tired of feeling punished for asking for help.

-Stanley

I'm sorry you've had such a hard time with this, you should never feel punised for asking for help. Could you make a complaint about any of this to try to stop it happening again? *hugs*

Hello,

I have written news papers, news stations, the govener of California and patients rights advocate about the incident. I can't think of anyone else to report it to, nor do I think it would do any good. I mean no one took any interest in helping when I was making a complaint about mental health refusing help based on my insurance. Abuse/neglect is even harder to prove. The hospital purposely told my brothers girlfriend and my friend I couldn't have visitors. I was kept isolated and without a witness to anything. So even if I was to make a complaint, it would be my word against theirs. My best course of action is to stay far away from any mental health center, ER and police as much as possible.

-Stanley

i am so sorry to read all of this and how badly you have been treated when you don't ask for help but when you do ask for help you get none at all!
i wish i had some advise but you are doing so well after all they have put you through you are still fighting and i know it may not seem like it right now but you are winning in my eyes xxx
*hugs*

Hello,

So I woke up yesturday morning around 2am from a really bad nightmare. My mistake, I slept when the sun was down. Never a good idea for me. Nightmares are twice as bad at night. Anyway, I called a hotline to talk for a bit, one of the few resources I have left to talk with since mental health won't even let me come in for walk in appointments to talk to anyone anymore.

Anyway, the woman kept getting hung up on my "thoughts" of suicide. After two years of fighting with mental health, who wouldn't have thoughts of giving up once in awhile. I had called to talk about what was going on, she only wanted to talk about the thoughts and the self injury. So I told her if she didn't want to listen to what I had to say then I will let her go to another call and I hung up. The incident was over as far as I was concerned.

But nope. She called the cops. Half hour later 3 cops came to the door. Not out of the norm for me. I am used to them coming after a hotline call to "check on me". Anyway they came in and asked questions about the call. They decided since I had done some self injury over the night that I needed to be seen at the ER. I wasn't going to fight it. I knew they wouldn't hold me. Mental health has already told me they won't help me, and I knew the cops were wasting their time. So we walked out to the cops car, and things changed.

They had told me that I was just going to be transported to the hospital to be seen by mental health. Everything changed once we got out to the police car. Once I got to the car the office put my small bag I always take with me on the hood of the car and then proceeded to handcuff me and put me in the back of a cop car, then take me to the hospital and put on a 5150 hold (A involuntary psychiatric hold). Man, I have not been on one of those since I was a kid. The cops even filled out a 72 hour hold form once we got to the hospital to boot which only pissed me off even more. So much for being truthful and upfront. I figured for sure I was going to be sent to the psychiatric hospital in Sacramento, 300 miles away.

So I sat waiting for 5 hour and gave a blood and urine sample, the normal. The wait wouldn't have been too bad, but the cop that brought me in said "you look tired", and turned off the light in the room. That triggered the memory of when I was locked in the restraint room overnight with the lights turned off when I was in the psychiatric hospital when I was a kid. I panicked and yelled at the guy to turn the light back on. He turned it back on, but didn't understand why. After that I had to leave the room. I told him I had to use the restroom and went into the bathroom and locked the door and stayed there for a bit until I could calm down.

Finally the woman from mental health shows up. Right from the start she gives me attitide. I wasn't in a good mood already from what the cop did. He didn't do it on purpose. I knew that. But I was already upset. She walks in and says "empty your pockets and hand over the blades" all rude like. So anyway, I wanted to keep my cell phone to keep contact, she took my cell phone as well which only pissed me off more.

So I was taken out to the car, basically it's a police car without the paint and markings. Has the cage and all inside. Anyway I had her and this guard behind me. So I got in the car and slammed the car door, I was pissed off. Then she was like "Put on your seatbelt". I refused because she was being all rude. So she says "well we can just sit here then". "Fine with me" I said. I can be very stubborn when I am angry. Well after 5 minutes she got tired of waiting and decided to just drive with a final comment of "If we get pulled over the ticket is yours".

So we arrived at mental health. Inside now she wants to use the metal detector. First she can't get it working, then the floor keeps setting it off. Then the stream of stupid questions. "Do you have something in your back pocket?". She sees I am wearing shorts without back pockets. "Are you wearing a belt?" Again, shorts, no belt. "Do you have anything in your pockets" No, you had me empty my pockets at the hospital and took everything. GRRRRRR. Finally she gives up and has me go into a room to be interviewed.

She says why are you here? "Umm because cops picked me up and brought me here". I am not very nice when I am irratated. Then she says, "says here the hotline and cops say you said you were suicidal". "First of all, if you know why I am here, why did you ask?, and second, I never said that". GRRR. She says "Well you cut yourself". I tell her "Self injury is not a suicidal act". She gets all defensive "I know that". "You know you are not going to get therapy from us today, so what do you want?". I told her "I didn't ask to come here, 5150 remember, I was forced. I am ready to leave as soon as you let me. So when your done asking stupid questions I can leave". She left.

In walks Tod Harris, head of the therapists who do the assesments. He comes in to tell me once again that my insurance won't be taken and that mental health will not help me get a therapist and that I need to find a way to get a therapist myself. I told him I knew this. He handed me a paper from medi-care that proved it. Like I needed proof or something. I told him "Look Tod, I know the lines. You won't give me services no matter how many times I come. I didn't come here by choice. So sooner you release me sooner I leave.". He left and 20 minutes later I was released and transported home. And as expected, I had a nightmare and sprained my shoulder fighting in my sleep. I was expecting it though. But yea, that's the United States health care system for ya. Stupidity at it's best.

-Stanley

Sounds like you're having an awful time with the medical services at the moment. Is there any way that the hospital can speak to the police and tell them not to take you there to see mental health because they won't be able to treat you?

Hello,

The emergency room is kind of stuck in the middle of it all. They have no choice but to take part in this stupid game mental health is playing. In the US the police by law have to take people who they feel might be a danger to themselves or others to the emergency room to be evaluated by mental health. The problem with that is the police know very little if anything about self injury. The office that brought me in asked me if I cut myself, and then when I tried to explain told me he didn't want to know anymore about it. I guess ignorance really is bliss. I guess it makes it easier to sleep at night for him, the less he knows.

Anyway the hosptal is brought into it because before mental health can take me, or anyone else they have to be medically cleared of health problems. Blood and urine test is the norm. So it is useless having sadly asking them to intervine in the process with the police. I mean in the end, I do understand the police are doing their job. I just wish they wouldn't lie about the use of the 5150 form, or the use of handcuffs. That's the only real part that irratates me about the police.

With mental health, when I first came to this county on 2006. I told them I had insurance, but only the medi-cal which is for the state of California. So the next day mental health had set me up with a therapist. However, 2 hours before the appointment I got a call from mental health saying the appointment was cancelled because I had medi-care insurance which is federal insurance for the whole country for any state.

It was then that they began telling me that because of the medi-care insurance that they would not give me services. Saying that they only give services to people with medi-cal (california) insurance. So because they refuse services, I have no choice but to use the hotlines to talk with and the ER for help until something else is figured out. I refuse to deal with this alone.

What's got me so fixed on this is because of the way they are doing it. It would be different if they couldn't take my insurance but tried to help me find another way to get help. I mean ok, they don't my insurance. They have a buy in program that they won't let me have. Why are they so set on not helping me, not taking my money?

Then the round about threat the other day "you know if you keep going to the ER for this, soon your medical insurance isn't going to pay anymore and your going to be charged for the cost of it". Basically saying that if I keep asking for help, that I will be charged the amount instead of my insurance for the ER visits. First of all, I talked to a patients rights advocate, the only people who can collect money from your checks is the IRS and child support. Anyone else just goes on my credit report as bills I have not paid, but they cannot take money from me unless I pay them.

I don't know how long it's going to take to get some kind of results, but I can't live with these problems forever. I need someone to just step up and help, and stop passing the buck. It seems the county workers are good for that.

-Stanley

Hmm, is it possible to ring your insurance and ask them what the deal is? I mean... don't people have a right to basic care? O.o damn the USA.... move to aus, then youc an lie about insurance and get help!!! *pets*

Correct me if i misunderstand, but you are on Medi-Cal and they are telling you that they can't take Medi-Care? What am I missing here?

What gets me is that I've heard that at our local hospital they are so afraid that a self-injurer may injure others that they have to be watched by security the whole time they are there! (Please note that I am in Orange County California)

I'm sorry. This is no help. I am so sorry for what you are going through! I will listen!

PM me if you want to talk about the delights of living in California etc!

oh my god!!!!

i am so very sorry for what youve been through. i have had some horrid experiences with ER's and mental health.
im on disability too and have medicare and am in the US.
my medicare covers most of my medical and mental health care.
im confused as to why they keep saying its an insurance problem.
again, im so sorry youve had to deal with these bastards(sorry, there just isnt a better word for them)
thinking of you.
much love.
xxxxxxxxxx

im sorry; i have no solutns....but i couldnt NOT replyafter reading this.

It is BEYOND appalling and disgusting.
I am so very truly sorry to hear of this stupidloop you are in. I never wished so much i ew how to help, what to sugest.

I also have to say im bloody amazed at you teacity and willingness to coinue fighting; i hope you never lose thoss raits.

Just had tlet you know i read, i care.and,

Im thinkinof you and here if you need

romp

Hello,

Well, that it's then. I was too upset to post about it yesturday. Tuesday night I had gone through the ER and did the normal blood and urine tests. Finally crisis picked me up and we went over to mental health. After a hour of talking with the guy there he gave me two options. Either be send to the locked ward in Sacramento, or the voluntary hospital attached to mental health that they run. They don't admit overnight so I would have had to wait on a sofa for another 8 hours until the ward next door opened to recieve patients. So the plan was made to come back at 8am the next morning and go into their unit that way. So I went home relitively ok knowing finally a plan was in place besides the cycle of ER, crisis, ER, crisis. It was getting old.

So anyway, I came in at 8am. Filled out the paperwork and wouldn't you know it, the jerk Tod was on. First of all they had me wait 3 hours while taking other people. Probably to get me upset and leave so they didn't have to see me. So finally they saw me. But it wasn't just anyone, I had to see Tod. He told me from now on, anytime I come through the ER I would be taken to crisis and only see him. If I came through a walk in, I would have to see him and no one else. He told me he will not let me go into their voluntary hospital there. Then to boot the other woman who was meeting with him was telling me some crap about how she was going to report to medi-cal that I was comiting insurance fraud by going to the ER when I wasn't depressed/suicidal. I got all pissed off and told her that I was depressed/suicidal when I was there. So I was basically told, we refuse to serve you any futher. Suicidal or not. They will not see me. So that's it. I am on my own.

-Stanley

That sucks. If they are going to behave in this way, they at least need to communicate with each other. There's no point one person telling you one thing and then someone else changing it! I'm sorry you're having such a hard time trying to get help x

That's illegal isn't it? Can you talk to yuor insurance about the whole thing? They can't refuse you basic care!!!! *cuddles*

Hello,

I am sure there is some law somewhere that says they cannot refuse me services or that they have to offer another option. But as of yet I have been unable to prove to anyone any wrong doing. I wrote to the governer of California. His office wrote me back saying my letter was sent to another department that deals with the mental health department and that I would hear something back in 45 days.

In addition to that, since all this with not being able to see anyone but Tod at mental health and being refused services I am stuck for now. I do have an option that can open up around the 5th of next month at a voluntary hospital about 200 miles from here. Tod doesn't control that one. But the catch is I have a huge problem with being in hospitals. Which is why I have wanted a therapist outpatient. So, the question that remains is can I stand being in the hospital and take the increased nightmares and flashbacks long enough to get the help? And that's where I am at right now.

-Stanley

Ok, so which insurance do you have Medi-Cal or Medicare? Or both?

Do you have a social worker/case manager?