Frustration in Chat
 

So, not sure where to post this, and it's not really a question, but I needed to say something. Chat is frustrating the crap out of me. Well, actually, it's some people in chat. The same people monopolize the conversation with topics that are against rules. Whenever you point out that what they are talking about is against the rules, they get pissed. One of them loves to flaunt their sexuality. They love to throw the words gay and bi around all the time, but if you object to what they say, you're screwed. You will attacked by them and their loyal posse for your point of view. Since most of their convo's are around sex, if you say, "hey, this chat is against rules and could be upsetting for some people," they will most likely say, "sex is natural so what's the problem." Well there is a problem. Not everyone agrees with that kind of talk. I think it is wrong and nasty. It is perverted talking about that in a chat. It is natural, but I believe sex should be saved for marriage and even then it shouldn't be discussed in a chat like this. It seems like certain people can voice they're beliefs, and even sometimes attack you with their beliefs, but yet, if you try to voice your beliefs or even oppose theirs, you get attacked. That doesn't seem fair. I don't necessarily want to voice my beliefs or opinions on certain things in chat, because chat isn't for that sort of thing. It's for support and distraction. Everyone should have to follow the rules. Supposedly mods do the best they can, but I believe they are falling short. There is no consistent rule enforcement. I have reported things continuously and nothing has happened that I know of, because the same people I've reported continue to break the same rules over and over. I'm going to continue to report. I'm not going to be tolerant of rule breaking. If someone is breaking the rules and continue after they are asked to quit, I'm reporting them. Even if that means reporting things numerous times of days, eventually the chat mods will have to do something about it.

Does this annoy anyone else?? Does anyone else have this problem??

I didn't mention names because I believe that would be wrong. I don't know if this will get deleted or not.

If you are juding chat on tonight...
lots of it was against the rules and offensive and really upset me.
However its not always like that...promise

I know it's not always like that,, but lately it has been a lot more than normal. The SAME people too, and I'm sure you know who I'm talking about.

Yes I do.
All I can suggest is reporting them.
They're breakin the rules and its unfair.
Just dont tar us all with the same brush.

it sounds like you should report whatever happened. I don't go in chat, but if someone has a log saved, then reporting it sounds like the way to go. From what I do know, while it does get very busy, it's often a pretty friendly place to be :)

Chat-report can become your best friend.

Also, if it's not a really busy time, I recommend hopping alone into another room. Chances are, there are people just as offended as you, and they'll follow you.

Chat can really be lovely, and I urge you to give it a few chances.

Honestly - i'm all for a few laughy innuendo jokes in GENERAL rooms, as in, ones that we all have a laugh on (the whole room joins in), not dirty disgusting tactless abusive sh*t that's gone on this evening.

I thought the behaviour was appauling and i'm pretty sure the people involved will be dealt with.

But as Heidi has said..it really isn't always like this, and it's a shame you had to see chat at it's worst.
If you ever do have problems don't hesitate to report to a chat moderator. You can also save the chatlog to give to the moderators for evidence aswell.

*hug* Keep your chin up x

Yeah, I usually like chat, and most people are awesome. i will continue to report it. I have a feeling the mods will be hearing from me daily. lol

I think this also makes the case for my previous post on this forum about either a more loosely ran chat or a safe room chat, or both. Reporting doesn't seem to do much, people do it anyways, might as well create a place where both poles can go about without upsetting the others.

I came in at the very end of what I think you're refering to, and only saw appologies and not the content that was upsetting. While I would believe sex should be allowed to be discussed, it seemed what was being said was more crude comments than actual discussion; as well as done in the Support room when people asked for it to end.

If there was a room for these people to go to and comment anything they want, or a room for when its just a general conversation (not in support, unless it's a support issue) whoever feels offended could go to a different room, I think it would solve it without having to perform massive bans on members whom may need this site.

I highly doubt jokes such as "Open your vagina", and jokes about child abuse/rape and rather sick racist jokes are appropriate for ANY chatroom.

I mean, I can understand someone needed to talk about sex in relations to maybe if they were abused or raped or even if they have and addiction to sex that they are seeking help to. But I don't think there needs to be a room made for people to go to talk about sex in any other way then the ways I mentioned. If they feel they need to talk that way, there are plenty of adult sites for that, this in not one of them.

What about questions/comments having to do with relationships, sex being an aspect of them regardless of some peoples religious and personal choices, or a funny story to tell a friend? I would agree with your first point of why it might be discussed, but I think there are other acceptable and relatively civil (at least if everyone else in the room is okay with it) ways to talk about it, which in my opinion shouldn't be disallowed.

As for Acrasia, I would agree with you, those are inappropriate for any room.

Well, although sex is a part of relationships, I can't really think of anyway it would need to be discussed. And you're point about relatively civil if everyone agrees sex chat, the problem is that it's hard for people to speak up and say hey It's bugging me. ANd like tonight when people did, they can get crap for speaking up. So, I believe that is one of the reasons sex talk is already against rules.

Ok, I was not in chat tonight so I have no idea what you are talking about in that respect. One thing I did notice you say is sex should be after marraige. Not everyone agrees with that...in fact, alot of people won't agree with that, and I see nothing wrong with talking about sex in a general forum as long as it does no overstep the mark.

I don't see why I cannt talk about sex, problems, non problems to do with it even though I am not talking about sexual abuse etc. Sex is a big part of my life, or it was when I was with someone, and sometimes I need to talk to someone regarding that aspect of my life. I do not want an adult chat because I am not neccessaraly looking for that type of convosation, merly for someone to say "yeah thats ok" "thats not ok".

From wha i understand tonight was unusual and disgusting, however, why should all talks of sex, apart from abusive sexual pasts, be banned?

Maybe I feel the need to discuss it? Maybe I would like opinions of people I consider my friends over an issue that has to do with sex? You may not want to discuss such things, and they may not be issues for you, but they are for other people. STDs, cheating, feeling vulnerable, feeling lonely, drunken mistakes, girlfriend/boyfriend issues, funny stories, etc, I could see countless legitimate reasons why sex should be allowed to be discussed; obviously not in the fashion as Acarsia mentioned though.

I don't want to keep bringing this up in this topic since I had my own, but if there were a room for people to be able to discuss these things, you wouldn't have to worry about speaking up about it considering you wouldn't be exposed to it in the first place, and both parties would be happy.

Why should it be allowed? RYL isn't an everything goes site, it's for specific things. If you aren't discussing those specific things why are you here? There are tons of other mediums to use to discuss non-RYL things. Various messenger clients (many of which allow group chats), other chat rooms, social networking sites, e-mail etc etc etc.

I can see where you are coming from in a sense Dream. And if it is linked with their depression or cutting and is stated in a way which is appropriate, then I don't see a problem if it is in Serious Chat. In fact, I have seen that sort of conversation happen in Serious Chat and it is fine. If people have a problem with it, if they feel triggered, they move rooms, just as they would if they were triggered by another topic. But, like you said, the chat that happened tonight was ridiculous and keeps happening.

Sorry, didn't know we're only allowed to discuss things that depress us, and refer to our mental state and disorders. I thought it was supose to be a community, with genuine connections and conversations with friends.

I would agree to your sentiment in the Support chat, which is why I'm not a fan of what took place tonight, but as far as general goes, it should be covered in general.

Like just recently in chat, if someone wants to tell a story about their night and how they hooked up with someone, why shouldn't they be able to? Is that not allowed, not general, or and issue or aspect about their life they would like to share with supposed friends?

Right, don't think I'm defending what took place tonight; I wasn't witness to it to make a judgement, but if its anything similar to what Acarsia stated it seems inapporpriate, especially for a support chat.

I just want to dismiss the notion that every and all mention of anything relatively sexual as bad and taboo, it can be a real issue of discussion for many people on this site.

Again, I apologise you were exposed to something you distaste of tonight, hopefully something can be done to take better consideration in the future.

Well, consider the fact that this is a support site for Eating Disorders and Self-Injury. It is also a place were people should feel comfortable. And I know I'm not comfortable when people talk about their latest hookup. And I believe many people aren't comfortable around that. This isn't a site to come and just talk about anything. It serves a purpose for support and distraction. And it is supposed to be a community, a community where everyone feels welcome and safe and comfortable. There are plenty of other places on the internet where you can have casual conversations about sex with your friends. And I didn't say you are only allowed to talk about things that depress you, but pertaining to sex conversations, it would be best to only discuss sexual issues in which you need help.

There is a difference between discussing sex in relationships, and flirting-flaunting.

I think chat here at RYL is not the place for flirting, flaunting or talking about conquests.

Sex is part of life. Serious discussions about it aren't wrong. That includes discussions about pregnancy and having children. Many of us have been sexually abused, and talking about that helps us get and give support. It can give us perspective and a different view of things.

My point of view is just that, a point of view, an opinion or a preference. I don't expect others to live their lives the same way. I hope we can all be open to each other's opinions for the sake of helping and supporting each other.

Serious chat is not the place, I agree, no chat is appropriate for the convosation that took place tonight from hat I can gather, however, general chat is just that. I don't think all sex talk should be banned unless it refers to someone cutting themself or being depressed. General chat is for just that...general, and if I wish to talk to a friend about what I got up to that night, even if it involes hooking up with someone, why should I not be allowed?

I think it is pretty much agreed throughout that some sex chat when pertaining to abuse and subjects that people need to discuss are appropriate in serious chat. I have seen people though who think discussing how their gf won't give them a bj is serious. Maybe it's a issue for them, but I believe that needs to be talked about in whisper. I know that isn't what was talked about tonight, but I think that the reason there is a no sex talk rule, is because people interpret what is serious differently and that can pose a problem.

User_Name: I believe the reason it shouldn't be allowed is because it can make others uncomfortable. This is a site for a specific issue and even though general chat is allowed and you don't have to just talk about cutting or ED's or depression, there has to be a line drawn somewhere on general chat. Minors do come on this site. If you need to tell your friend about your recent hookup, then whisper them, or go on some type of messenger.

Maybe I'm wrong in this, but the way I view forums and chat are two completely different things as far as the purpose of this site goes. The forums, beyond playful general threads, is for finding help and acceptance from those with like minds and issues. It's a place to express what you need to get off your chest and seek help for whatever may be troubling you.

When it comes to chat, beyond support chats which for the most part I would just consider a live action support forum, it's more a place to relax, connect, and converse. It's a place to hang out and talk about anything with people you've made connections with over the site. Within this, some times people don't like to be controled as if they were children, or have to submit to childish random topics which may take place in fun and distractions or general chat. Some people want to actually talk to other people about things that are on their mind at the moment. Some people want to talk and be treated as if they were adults.

I don't know, maybe my philosophy on chat is wrong, and I feel like I've hijacked this thread too much already, but I see a big distinction between the purpose of a support community for vulnerable people and a general based chat from from that community.

I do understand what you are saying believe me. And the majority of the time the sex talk is general, it isnt specific. In regards to whispering, there may be more than one person that is involved in the convosation. Personally, and know many will disagree, I think it should be allowed with a line drawn on it. Not to explicit, which believe me I know I can be, and I have warnings for, but I am an adult, and the people i am talking to the majority of the time are adults, and if not, i make sure there is no one too young in the room. I don;t think I am explaining myself too well, I have been out drinking... let me try and say this again.

There are 4 rooms. One of them is completley general, I don't see why, a little bit of sexual chat should not be allowed, nothing explicit, if someone doesn't like it they can either say, and hopefully people will stop, or move to one of the other 3 rooms avaliable. Its not like you have to stay in one room. Also, it *is* an everyday part of most peoples lives, it is something that some people have to talk about occasionally just to get answers about certain questions without those being a part of SI. I don't currently self harm and I am not depressed, does that mean I shouldn't be on this site even though thats what it is all about?

I do agree with a lot of what you guys are saying. It would be fine with me if people could draw the lines and not get too explicit, cause not all sexual talk bothers me. I can deal with it. The problem I find is, give people a little freedom and they abuse it. Really, what I see that the mods are trying to do is, be a lax as possible on the rules and hope people know when to say when. I think that if when someone steps up and says, "hey this is going to far, could you try and pull it back" and then people should respect that. I hope that makes sense

The reason it's not currently supose to be allowed is because all the rooms are treated as if everyone in there fits to the lowest common mold of being underage and at all times vulnerable to anything beyond childish random discussion. And while I understand the concern and accept anyone who fits those qualifications, I don't believe most the users of chat do fit it. I find this to be a problem that has yet to be fixed, and until it is, people will keep on discussing what they feel is normal to be discussing while they are actually breaking the rules, and people who dislike it will continually be exposed.

I just want to say that even while I'm in disagreement with Forever-Broken, I respect her for voicing her concerns. I too think it is a problem within the current system, I just think it should be delt with differently than reporting/banning otherwise useful and regular members.

I don't want anyone to get banned but if it isn't reported, then I don't think it will get dealt with. Cause as of now, mods arent' doing much of anything that I can see.

I would suggest using the report feature when you feel it's needed, right now it is the only current solution. I suggested my way in the other topic, which I would like to see something done about, but until then use what you got; I just think its fundamentally flawed way of handling it overall.

Unfortunately this whole site is flawed. The way people use the whole *cuddle* *snuggle* and whatever else thing, makes me feel like I'm in elementary school. I also think that this site is very helpful, but at the same time can be very hurtful. It can enable people to only come here to seek support and further isolate themselves from the real world were they can get more help.

Life.

And the mods do do something about it, you just may not see it. Like i said, I have had warnings about things I didn;t think I would. As in...the mods have listened to a post report and done something about it.

Well, obviously just giving someone a warning doesn't do anything anymore, because people still break the same rules. The same people break the same rules. So they are going to have to do something more than just give you a warning. I don't know what else they could do, but they need to figure something else out. I mean, it's funny to me how this rule seems to be the one broke the most. I think if someone were to go in there and break another one of the rules that offended someone, like talking about cutting methods, then they would probably get in more trouble than what people are getting in for breaking the sex talk rule. Cause I"ve seen that happen. There is no consistency with anything to do with rules on this site.

The chat mods can really only act if they have a chat log to back up what happened. They can issue infractions, and even ban people if necessary.

Part of the problem with chat is that unless a chat mod is in there, nothing can be done instantaneously.

So yeah, the best thing to do is send in the chat logs to the chat mods. I know it's not a great solution, but it's what is in place right now.

Basically send logs. Go wild.

Okay.. bear with me here. A few posts were skimmed, so if I repeat what others have said, I apologize.

As has been stated, you cannot keep chat safe the same way as the forums. When someone says something triggering, we cannot go and edit it out of the chat window the way a forum mod could edit a post - so the damage is there unless the conversation moves on. That may not be perfect, but that's the way it works.

From what I have seen, the chat convo in question has nothing, absolutely nothing in common with your suggestion of a 'free' room, Colin - I appreciate where you're coming from, and you make valid points, but mature, open discussion is really not what I'd term this, and it's not what sparked this thread, it seems. [Though I may add, your thread and your thoughts haven't been forgotten about.]

I just wonder how we are supposed to penalize rule breaks, then? The current RYL system is actually very fair in my opinion. A warning for a first offence, infraction points if it happens again, and bans if enough points are accumulated. It's not just "Oh, member xy is out of line again, I'll send them their 5th warning and hope they listen this time." [Or, if you meant the "warn"-thing in chat, that's not the extent of how members are punished for rule breaks!]

Maybe part of this frustration stems from the fact that whatever punishments are handed out are not discussed in public. That wouldn't be fair on anyone, as it's between the mods and the member in question.

We are aware of the fact that there have been problems with mod presence in chat, and the way things are handled - and we have been and are still working on it. Suggestions are welcome, and your view has been taken on board, xXForever_BrokenXx. As others have said - chat logs are our friends. We can't hand out punishments based on what may be random accusations, and it's awesome when members help us out with sending in logs of what happened.

Just to add to what Rike said there. If you report a member with a log... action is taken. You may not know about it however because we keep all official warnings and infraction points confidential. However if the member continues to display the same behaviour in chat... Keep reporting. Because the more logs we have, the more points we can give and the more likely they will earn themselves a ban from RYL and all it's services.

Sophie.x

I totaly agree with what everyone is say in regards of this thread. but chat is no always like that xxforeverbrokenxx like Heidi Tiger said not all of us are like that hunny.

I think I came in at the tail end of what was happening last night, and I was sent logs from three wonderful people, posted them on the Chat Mod boards, and they will be dealt with by the chat mod team. Logs are so important. So, if there is trouble and a mod isn't around, log what happens.

If what people are saying are upsetting you, then there is the Ignore button.

There is very little that can be done without log evidence. But every log is read and taken on board.

Chat Last Night.
 

What happened last night overstepped the mark in my eyes and in the eyes of the great majority i'm sure. I don't usually post in the forums, however the behaviour displayed was overly distasteful. I think the key point is it went on for way too long. I'm not defending the guilty parties here, but it was admittedly more childish than deliberately nasty. In general, I think we all need to remind each other to move rooms or change topic more often. This does already happen on occasion and seems to work well with minimal fuss. For the record, I know I can slip as much as the next person and am not being hypocritical. I think 'prolonged' talk of recreational sex should be confined to rooms 1 and 2. Despite the painful reminders that I haven't had it in ages it doesn't really bother me. On the whole I think chat works ok and the mods do a good job. I also have an idea for giving support in chat, especially Room 4. If you are in there and feel able to give personal support you could maybe activate some sort of icon next to your user name? On the flipside, there could also be an icon you could activate if you need support. Those in need could see it as a green light to approach you and not feel awkward. Once the conversation has started others can obviously chip in. It would just serve as a helpful entry point for them to start talking. Too many times you will see folk come in and leave without saying anything after a few minutes. I'm sure many of them had things they wanted to say. It's always hardest to ask for help when you need it most. I'm not a chat software specialist, but if this is deemed a good idea i'm sure it would be very easy to implement.

The Mods do an amazing job! The one thing that slightly annoyed me about your posts. No one could possibly comprehend how much the mods do for us!

And just as you expect people to be sympathetic and considerate of YOUR beliefs, you have to be the same for their beliefs, e.g. sex before marriage is fine, and is okay to talk about.

Oh and this is not just a SH and ED site. It's a website that's brought people together that have one common factor. We are allowed to talk about other things than cutting, having eating disorders or being depressed believe it or not.

I know people on this website that have never been a self harmer, aren't depressed and DON'T have an ED.

I'm going to make an annoying "sitting on the fence" post.

What happened last night was BANG out of order. We know this. The mods know this. It will be dealt with. What was discussed last night are both amazingly against the rules and completely unneeded.

However.

Sexual talk is going to happen - I guess there's no need to be graphic. For instance, if you wanted to discuss a certain topic because it related to your past but not directly, I can't see anything wrong with that. Like, bdsm for example.

There's a thread in another SA specific forum I use just on that topic, another on masturbation for example, sometimes things needs to be talked about and discussed like that. For one who has suffered a sexually abusive past, we're gonna feel enough shame about sex already, without being gagged from asking appropiate questions. At least on RYL, we should be able to discuss and ask questions safely and without rulebreaking in a controlled environment, than asking someone potentially dangerous.

The rule on sexual talk I can only imagine as a guideline because we do have abuse survivors here who may be triggered or sometimes triggered by such talking. We can't cater for everyone who is triggered because people are triggered by different things. The mods are doing the best they can.

There is a time for joking and stories to an extent, there is a time for serious support discussion over sexual matters, there is a time to ask questions. Nobody is saying there isn't. Everybody has a giggle at a word every so often, everybody makes a cheeky suggestion once in a while.

And unfortunately some people think it makes them "cool" to upset and offend other people and break the rules because it makes them "awesome". That, I really don't know how to fix.

Lolomgthisissuchanessay.

I also wanted to say that even out of the context of sexual abuse, I think it's still perfectly natural to want to talk about sex. Obviously not 'oh yeah, and he did that and it was amazing' type thing, but if you're in a relationship and want some support - say you don't know how to approach the topic of sex with your partner, or that you haven't had sex in a while and are wondering why - I think it's only natural that you'd want to talk about it.

There's a line between talking and being too graphic, and I think that everybody knows that, even if people do overstep the line at times - but I also think that this is a support site, and whilst it is aimed primarily at self-harm, it has expanded so much that it does include things like support within relationships - and I don't think that sex should be such a taboo subject in this context.

Quote for truth.

I agree to an extent with pretty much everything said. I do agree that some sex talk should be allowed but obviously as everyone stated, last night was over the line. I think the line of where it gets inappropriate needs to be made more evident instead of leaving it up to people's judgement. Also, about respecting their belief: I try to respect everyones. The way I kind of look at it is that, when they do things like to tonight, or if they get to into the sex talk even when it has something to do with their past or depression, it still upsets me to a point. And for the most part I can deal with it. But, I feel like when we say, "Oh, it's their belief that it is fine to talk about so you have to respect that and let them," then my belief of ,it's a private matter that needs to not be discussed unless in a way that needs help, is not being respected. The only way to respect both beliefs at the same time would be to have lines that are more clearly drawn. I know for a fact, if I went into chat looking for some support on say homosexuality that my beliefs and opinions would get me attacked, even if it was something I seriously needed help with for myself or a friend. Cause believe it or not, I'v wanted to ask for support on that issue. More for a friend than myself, but still. But, I felt like I couldn't. Yet, on the flip side, I see people talking about homosexuality all the time, and it seems as long as it's their views its fine.

I think if you wanted to seek support about homosexuality in chat you would definately get it. The majority of RYL are extremely tolerant and non-discriminatory and very un-homophobic so I am sure any questions you had would be answered.

I don't need answers on whether it's right or wrong. I know that answer, and that answer is the one people disagree with. If I were to try and discuss what was bothering me pertaining to that and friends, I would get crap BECAUSE of the fact anything I would say would be considered homophobic or mean even though it wouldn't be. Don't know if it makes sense but, that's how I feel.

The mods do a hell of alot of work, just because you dont see it doesnt mean it doesnt happen.

And Im sorry, but your saying how people arent respecting your views, and then saying "The way people *Cuddle* and *Snuggle* each other is like in elementary school." I suggest if you want people to respect the way your views and acts then you respect the way other people act! Some people arent in a very good state of mind and saying something like *cuddles* can actually be comforting. Im sorry but that comment completely infuriated me as I find you extremely hyprocritical!