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disagreements?
Why is it we as a community cannot go a week or so without there being a huge uproar within a thread and its usually within a thread that didnt even intend to go that way ¬_¬
Anyway yea... Who else is sick of it all? It's driving me insane and it triggers me to even come into general chat at times :ermm: Oh and if this becomes an argument its being deleted >_< |
Because there are A LOT of members and they have different opinions.
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But their opinions dont seem to get discussed they just try and force opinions on others and they also dont seem to get "discussed" in the right place on ryl as a lot are in general :/ anyway yea just my opinion on this *shrugs*
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Cause a lot of people see things in general. Opinions aren't forced, just stated, then someone else states their opinion, then the person before questions why they think that. Then it should go after that the person gives their reasons why and then questions why on the other persons opinions.
It just seems that as soon as an opinion is questioned people are like 'omg you're picking on me and my opinion, you're so mean!' That was explained rubbishly but i hope someone gets what i mean. |
Haha, cause we're mostly all female and full of hormones.
There we go. |
and because there are many problems with the site, and people are not happy with the development of the site.
would you rather noone said anything? |
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yea its the people who get offended when others question it that get to me
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There have really NOT been a lot of arguement threads started in GC recently.
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I'm guessing you mean when someone replies and get shot down by the few people who disagree? *pets* maybe this is another one ot go to F&C? *cuddles*
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can i ask why?
this discussion effects you too, and every other member on this site. i think it is quite important even if we don't seem to be getting anywhere just yet. i have been meaning to say all this stuff for a long time but never really got round to it. now there is a platform and i am going to use it. i am sorry if it has upset/triggered you. maybe you could put the thread on ignore if you really don't want to see it. although i do agree with oliviaface that there hasn't been that many. or any really that i can think besides the one tonight, in general. |
LOL. Rach, i love you. :P
and, to the OP. i dont know. i think people are so desperate to have their voice heard now a 'platform' has appeard (this is not ment to sound negative at all btw. or anything bad) that they're maybe not so careful aout the way they do it, and get a littl emeotional/wound up (myself included) and the way they express themselves coems across as harsh? |
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And in answer to why im guessing you mean why do I not like it being discussed in general if not correct me please but yeah I feel generals a place to get away from arguments and stuff but have found at times I cant go into general in case I get triggered :/ |
Not every member is complaining. A handful are. I can't say for certain, but the lack of complaints from other members may mean something here. And it's the same members complaining most of the time. Hopefully with the thread in f&c, some of the problems can be solved. but, general chat, isn't the place for these arguments/discussions becasue it's a place people should be able to come nad mellow out and currently with these threads happening, you can't.
I don't know if that makes much sense >.< |
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I would say there are discussions instead of disagreements, but maybe that's just me. |
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i think you are kidding yourself if you think only the handful who have posted in the thread are the ones who have the problems. (you figuratively, obviously..) |
Alot of people wont post because they fear the reactions.
I was one, until today. I was extremely reluctant to post in the thread about the First Aid Board too. |
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sometimes i feel it necessary to voice my opinion but most of the time i just can't be bothered. tonight i thought i would because i have an essay that i was meant to do a week ago and needed to find something else to do, plus rosie's thread i think pointed out nearly all the major flaws in this site at the moment. but yes, normally i am worried about my whole reply being picked apart sentence by sentence because i would be too lazy to reply back. |
I was afraid to post in the first aid board becasue I was going to be ripped to shreds. But I PM'd the faa members and then a friend helped me word my replies in a way that there was no possible way someone could abuse me without being completely out of line. *shrugs*
That's also probably the case with the current 'discussion'. Lots of people are afraid that if they say they like it, then the ones who don't like ti are going to have a go at them. Generally the ones who've started a debate/argument feel very strongly about it and when someone disagrees it can set off a firecracker in their pants. So lots of people don't reply. But also, lots of people just don't have a problem. it's not occured to them that it needs to change or they just don't care. It is a little upsetting to see arguments (and lots of the 'discussions' have turned into arguments) in a board that is supposed to be fun. So maybe keeping them to f&c is the way to go *nods* |
this board isn't meant to be fun! that is fun & distractions. this board is meant to be GENERAL, as in everyday-conversation, it can be fun, it can be depressing as hell, it can be a discussion, it can be anything (as long as it's not triggering, i guess).
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ok i don't know what i've been missing.
i've been on here for over 2yrs now and i get scared to reply most of the time now incase i get ripped apart and its not fair. |
Unfortunately, I can't make it fair. I know how hard it is to reply, maybe start of slow if you're afraid and get someone else to post your reply for you and then if it's received well then you can post yoruself? Sorry hon
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^ it's not your fault.
i think im just going to post what i think and feel and see wha happenes. |
I think that people are hypersensitive in some cases because they have been personally attacked in a debate before and at times in a thread some people are fighting while others are trying to debate.
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I think the problem is, that some people don't know the difference to a debate and an argument. Like Aidey said, some people will be trying to debate and others will be arguing. Someone will make a valid point and another person will rip them to shreds just becasue they can. It's like.. highschool debating. When you're in year 7. you have no skill and generally end up basically taking the mickey out of the other person and making them feel terrible. But as you get older you get more skilled and start debating and stop arguing and i think that's what has happened here. People make a point or start a debate but when someone gives fully plausible reasons as to why that shouldn't happen they get pissed off and rip them to shreds or mock them and make them cry. I have no objection to a good debate. But for a good debate to work, the people who have raised the original point need to be able to accept that they could be wrong. Otherwise it's nto gonna get anywhere! |
People post opinions. People disagree.
No one gets 'shot down' there are just people who disagree with you. There is no 'pack mentality' either. Just some people who happen to disagree with you. I don't really hesitate to voice my thoughts, I'm not scared of peoples reactions and I know that there is always someone who agrees with me but may be scared to say what they really think. There is nothing wrong with being cautious either. I just think a lot of people can't grasp the concept of a disagreement and a heated discussion. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm being aggressive, or shooting you down and vice versa. I love threads full of opinion sharing and disagreements. I like to voice my thoughts and why I think them, And even more than that, I like to here other peoples thoughts because they're different to mine, and why they think them. Then I like to reply to why I think that's wrong, or why I disagree. Y'know... have a proper discussion. A debate. Instead of people claiming personal attacks and 'pack mentality' and whatever else when a few people dare to disagree with them. Clearly, I'm just venting about certain peoples conduct in other threads, which isn't too good, bu it's not flaming or anything else. I just... can't stand when people can't handle being disagreed with. When a few people express thoughts or opinions differing to your own, it's called a disagreement, or a debate. It is NOT 'ripping you apart' or 'ripping you to shreds' THAT would probably entail a whole load of vulgar, unecessary, hurtful insults that, I'm sure, no one here would lower themselves to. So please stop implying you were getting 'ripped to shreds' because I find it pretty insulting, no one was attacking you. Anyway, I've finished venting. There haven't been too many arguments. But I think the majority of arguments that took place, should have taken place. They weren't stupid or wrong. They were about things that genuinely concerned people, whether that be a certain board or the what they think of RYL as a whole. They were all valid and brought up good points. |
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I actually did get personally attacked. and i'm thankful a mod had an eye on the thread and removed it before other people picked up on it. It was all by one particular person but it was still an attack. *shrugs* Compromise is the key. No one is ever going to be completely happy, so may as well make each other moderately happy and leave it at that. |
I think debates are healthy things to do. It is ALWAYS good to see both sides of the coin and the see someone else's opinion, even if it is not shared by you.
I have, before, thought one thing and then been swayed by what someone else thinks. This is why I like it so much, a well worded post when i am debating can have me thinking for ages! If someone turns it into an argument, thats what the report post button is for. It can soon get sorted. I just don't think that debates and arguments should get confused. I have seen alot of debates, not so much on the argument front. |
Ah! I got moved! I felt like I got moved wit the thread, I was in general, and now I am here. All very confusing :p
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Sorry chick, was reading myself and saw the request for it to be moved.
Hope it was as good for you as it was for me ;) |
Always :p
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I totally agree with you two. Debate should be encouraged because it opens minds and allows for a back and forth of ideas, feelings and opinions. Unfortunately we cannot account for the odd few that see the need to get personal and make attacks on specific members rather than maturely discuss the issues raised in the post and turn it into a big pointless agrgument *rolls eyes* |
Unfortunately though, things can get out of hand; such as another thread where there were two/three people saying the same thing against people who disagreed with them, reaching personal levels and beyond a heated discussion. It doesn't need that many people to say the same thing over and over to disagree. If anything, it takes one person to disagree stating their reasons why and then others to say "I agree with xxxx on this matter because...". Otherwise it can seem very oppressive and intimidating to post something disagreeing with what is been said by the majority. Although, I for one love to go against the crowd. ;)
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it's hard to post an opinion that is against the grain of a debate especially when you then get jumped on and mocked. and it DOES happen.
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Yes it does, and maybe it is time for it to stop.
It is also, however, time for people to stop being so sensitive, and no I am not talking about you, just in general, alot of people don't like it when an opinion differs from there own and immediately think that they are being flamed, or picked upon etc. |
Yeah I know! I like debating and stuff. And I do it regularly with friends on msn! Maybe someone could find and post rules and regulations of a proper debate and when they're going to start one, link that in or something?
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Does it need to be a formal debate?
Because then don't you need chairpersons and stuff? Most debates in News and Debate go off without a hitch, it's just when we get to the more emotive topics about our community that things heat up. I think people just need reminding to take a step back when they feel annoyed and just to be mindful of other's feelings. |
Just general rules and stuff. And it's very hard to debate properly when it's something that incites emotions!
the best debater (debatee?) at my school in grade 12 could switch his emotions off. He was one of the most passionate people I met but when he debated he was practically cold hearted. he was fantastic! |
I think I see what you mean, Jess. Like a code of conduct for debating/discussing? (:
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Yesh! :)
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Kinda like:
Coaches and adjudicators are not to criticise other adults involved to boys. This does not prevent fair and measured comment on the proceedings in the proper circumstances for the purposes of guidance of the boys. 3. Coaches or parents are not to dispute the result. This does not prevent them from putting questions to the adjudicator in a reasonable way or having a reasonable discussion. Nor does it prevent them from lodging a formal complaint in writing later to the committee about an adjudicator. Any such complaints will be dealt with not as potential grounds for reversing a decision but as a potential basis for discussion with the adjudicator about future occasions and, where necessary, for the issuing of guidelines. 4. Adjudicators and coaches are to encourage courtesy among the boys, and to provide an example of courtesy themselves. They are also to remember that the manner of presentation of an argument is important and in their adjudications and coaching encourage an effective and appropriate presentation. This includes discouraging any remarks which could be offensive to schools, such as any offensive references to religion, and any excessively sharp or personal attacks on the other side in a debate. |
Well obviously that'd need to be rewritten as we don't have coaches or parents on RYL.
But tbh the majority of it is common sense. I don't know how one would dispute the result of any debate as in most of them there is no winner. And I think the personal attacks would be covered under the no flaming rule. In my opinion RYL's current rules already give adequate guidelines for how to have a civil debate. adding extra rules and bureaucracy can only hamper open and honest discussion about what people want from this community. |
Common sense to many of us, but to a few their opinion and insecurities can get the better of them. I think if anything, it would encourage more debate because people would feel as though they are protected that little bit more?
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Ahh common sense (and common courtesy) are anything but common. *nods*
but the mods are like the adjudicators and Harley is the final judge sort of thing. Does that make sense? maybe someone who's brain is working (mine is in wedding mode) could write out a set or guidelines that fit RYL? |
whaaat i do agree with heidi i think that is common sense, and i think people KNOW when they are going to post something that may get edited/deleted, or at least have an inking, especially in a debate. or else they should know really.
i don't think rules are needed for every aspect of ryl. |
Not rules, but guidelines. Debates need direction, and guidelines set those directions. otherwise you just have... chaos and it gets heated and becomes an argument
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I think though that by deeming moderators to be "adjudicators" it set's things up to be adversarial with two teams. And discussions needn't be like that, I mean people can take one point of view, another or be a million things in between.
And I think if people feel they've been given the opportunity to talk, they remain calmer, I mean look at Nils leaving thread now, it all got very heated at the start. But once people realised that with having a freedom to post comes a responsibility it all got a lot more constructive. I think the only guidelines needed for a successful debate are to remain calm and not construe everything as a personal attack. |
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