drinking as an alternative
 

i use alcohol as an alternaive to cutting. its probably just as bad though...how many other people do this? using alcohol/drugs in place of SI...like...I cut when i'm not drinking or i'm drinking when i'm not cutting...

I do that too. I'm below drinking age and I I can rarely score any drinks tho, so I don't drink, but I mean I do drugs, and SI. Which one is worse varies on how much you do of each, and the ways cutting affects you. But yeah I can really relate to doing one when I'm not doing the other. They're both escapisms. It's probably a bad situation to be in b/c if someone only gives up one, the other would probably take over for it.

Take care.

it is a relatively common thing for people to do instead of cuting or SI they will se substances to help them forget their problems.

down side is tht it usually just causes more issues for them in the long term.

if you want any advice regarding substance use and ways to try giving up feel free to get in touch

^^ That quote pretty much sums it up for me.
I'm under drinking age tho, so how often I do it depends on how often I can get past my mom. But yeah, I understand that.

PM me if ya want. <33

You're not alone in this, I think there is definitely a sort of spectrum of self destructive coping strategies that people can veer between, from cutting to EDs to substance abuse, and you can go from one to another depending on circumstance and opportunity. The methods of coping are just a symptom or outlet for your underlying deeper issues, and also a way of hiding from dealing with them and numbing bad feelings. At least that is how I see it, from personal experience... I swung between cutting, EDs and drink/some drugs from age 13 to 26, been now over a year free although if you asked me how I stopped it all, I couldn't give a proper answer (hospital did help though). Please feel free to PM me though if you wanna chat or anything x

I am a recovering alcoholic and chronic self harmer. I know exactly what you have found. I always thought it was either or, SH and drink. My CPN put me straight on this and said that was not true and I can function without the drink and the SI. I have now given up smoking aswell so I am totally drug free. It does require a lot of energy at times to stay drug free. I have not had a drink for 13 months and feel much better for it. Try to keep things in the day. You can do it try to brake the self harm cycle put something new in it place that is not damaging like alcohol or drugs. Try and treat yourself and praise yourself when you go without for any length of time.......

I also do that too, your not alone.
*Hugs*

its like i flip flop between the two...when i'm trying to quit the SI i drink every night that i can...but when i do SI i rarely drink and i almost never mix the two. its kinda frustrating to go from one bad coping mechinism to the next....

I drink as a way of medicating myself.
Self medication with alcohol.
Never good.

agreed

I drink when things are going so bad i just can't take it.

Which is a lot lately.

I used to do that but these days it tends to include everything, none of it seems enough by itself anymore.

that's what i did what i first stopped cutting was started drinking. i'm so glad i had awesome friends who realized i had just switched the two. it was easier to stop cutting because i didn't reallt stop SHing i just picked something else. it took a long time and lots of therapy to quit complety and i'm still not there yet. i still have to quit someking becuase i think i've just swaped the frist to for smoking.

It began when i started to drink in my early teens, or i may have even been 12 years old. But then i discovered weed, and this was MUCH better at stopping me from cutting. Then i used a bunch of other drugs
I used heroin for about 3 years, then started on buprenorphine. But this didn't stop me from using. So then i went on methadone, and increased my dose to the extent where my opiate tolerance is just too high to get any effects off heroin ((i'd have to shoot up at least half a gram of decent heroin to get any effects)).

Heroin definatley replaced cutting for me. And the same thing happened with methadone. Whenever i was on opiates, doesn't matter if it was when i was using codeine, i would get relief from cutting. I think this is because the opiates/opioids bind to the opiate receptors in my brain, and instead of cutting and getting endorphins and enkephalins binding to these receptors, i ALREADY HAVE THEM FILLED WITH OPIATES. So i feel like i do after cutting, except without the cutting. Instead of relying on my endorphins, i rely on methadone. And it has drastically reduced the amount i cut. It's also stopped me from using heroin and other illicit drugs, its even stopped me from drinking ethanol...i just "don't feel like it" so i don't take other drugs either.

Plus im on a benzo which helps reduce any anxiety i have...and im on an antidepressant that covers serotonin and noradrenalin...and i take nicotine ((don't smoke, never have, never will)) through the use of transdermal patches, and this covers DOPAMINE, and its proving to be a good antidepressant.

The ((all legal now, thankfully)) drugs i use that are most helpful are methadone, clonazepam, and nicotine. These drugs all make me feel better, and help reduce cutting. I STILL CUT though...just not nearly as much as i used to, and i feel MUCH better....i don't have really bad depression ((i only recently started using nicotine patches, at first they were a dissapointment, but now...i can really feel they are reducing my depression)) and i don't have really bad anxiety.
And after my drug use through-out my teens and early 20's...i think i NEEDED to be medicated with legal drugs to cope as i had messed up my brain chemistry.

But yeah....i used to use marijuana, heroin, ketamine, nitrous oxide to escape from my painful mind, but now i use legal drugs; methadone ((instead of heroin)), clonazepam ((instead of alcohol or downers, cos its a CNS depressant and i need a depressant in my system to feel better)), and nicotine ((makes me feel better due to dopamine release))...

It still makes me cringe to see people accepting methadone as a perfectly acceptable substance. I understand that it'll totally help you, and it helps so many people get off bad addictions, but it frustrates me how it's played out to be a really safe drug. In actual fact, it kills around 6 times as many people as ecstacy does, for example. Just thought I'd add that because it's a small safety bugbear of mine. Ta!

Hi there

I have been drinking for 10 years,and for it me it was another way of coping,but it got to the point that i was drinking over 100 units a week,and was putting myself in some dangerous situations,and decided to get help a year ago for it.im now down to 25 units a week,but i can understand what you are saying about another way of coping,but please dont let it get to the amount i was drinking,i nearly lost friends through it.
take care

bubble
xx

I'm underage, but for a graduation present I got a pretty big bottle of Tequila. So Yeah, I completely related to drinking in place of SI. It seems like a really healthy substitute doesn't it?

people keep telling me just how much my liver hates me lol sometimes i wonder if i would b better off taking on drinking more and never ever SI-ing again...

Lewis said:
It still makes me cringe to see people accepting methadone as a perfectly acceptable substance

Why is this so? Methadone is non-toxic, it doesn't damage the brain or any other organs in the body, it can be a tremendous help to people who are ADDICTED -i mean VERY addicted -to opiates. Would you prefer me to spike the vein and use heroin?

It's one of my pet hates ((sorry if im being harsh)) when people "jump on" opiates like their evil or something. SURE -when used irresponsibly and in the wrong hands it can cause serious injury or death...that is called darwinism at work. If you intelligent and use it correctly, it poses no heath risk what-so-ever.

Do you have a problem with people being on other drugs like antidepressants if they're depressed? or anti-psychotics if they're psychotic? If no, then why do you have a problem with a former heroin ((or other opiate user)) using methadone? It's the same thing. Drug (mis)use is a HEALTH problem and needs to be treated by DOCTORS, and sometimes requires certain medication.

As it currently stands, there are only two forms of opioid substitution available...buprenorphine and methadone.

Methadone has helped me save veins, it's helped me quit a dangerous and costly ((not just financially)) habit, its potentially saved my life. For injecting street heroin is surely more dangerous than taking a dose of methadone WHEN YOU KNOW THE DOSE and you are intelligent enough to know your opiate-tolerance, and how you will react to x-amount of methadone. This is why doctors don't start you out on 200mg ((or a very high dose))....if other people MISUSE methadone, and get sick and die, then its THEIR FAULT. You can't blame the drug. They should not have taken the methadone if they didn't know what they were doing.

And yes, methadone may kill more people than "ecstacy"...but "ecstacy" ((or REAL MDMA)) is FAR more damaging than methadone to the mind and body. It can cause serotonin syndrome, can be dangerous when mixed with other drugs ((e.g. DXM, others)), can potentially cause neurotoxicity, can cause hyperthermia and "muscle melt-down", and can also cause over-dose and death.

This pales in comparision to someone who is using methadone RESPONSIBLY...as directed by their doctor....these people won't suffer neurotoxicity, they won't O.D, they won't damage their liver, etc etc etc.

I think far too many people are biased against opioids, and methadone inparticular, because they are ignorant about the effects of opioids. Im not denying that opioids can cause death when used irresponsibly. But when used CORRECTLY, they are extremely safe drugs, and if you compare the damage done by someone using methadone for ten years, and some-one using "ecstacy" everyday ((like the methadone user)) for 10 years, you can guess who will be in a better state of mind. The methadone user hands down, without a shred of doubt.

Your comparing OCCASIONAL "ecstacy" use to DAILY methadone use, and high-dose use ((my dose could potentially kill 3 people)). But it has saved me from a destructive and extremely strong addiction.

Have you ever been addicted to opiates? Have you ever been addicted to heroin, using it intra-venously? If you haven't, then you really have no idea how methadone can help improve someone's life. I have money, i don't score drugs off unknown criminals, i don't put my life in danger because i no longer inject a drug of unknown purity everyday, im not in financial ruin anymore, i have time for other, normal things, and methadone has been the RIGHT medication to allow this.

Ok...im not attacking you. But when people "cringe" at the use of methadone, i think its due to ignorance ((im NOT calling you stupid)). Such people haven't and can't TRULY understand opiate addiction, and what it requires for some people to stop using their ((destructive and dangerous)) opiate-of-choice.

Like i said, methadone is NON-TOXIC, and completley safe when used under the supervision and direction of a doctor. If you plan on using it illegally...like using other peoples methadone, well then that's exactly the same as using heroin. You don't know what your really in for. When used RESPONSIBLY, methadone can save lives, and has saved lives. Who knows where i'd be now if i continued to I.V heroin for the past 3 years? I've been on methadone in that time, and not once have i come close to being arrested, over-dosing, meeting with criminals ((dealers)), etc.

So please, don't "cringe" when you hear of people using methadone and saying its perfectly acceptable. Cos it IS perfectly acceptable. And the same could be said for pharmaceutical heroin. If its prescribed by a doc, and you get a CLEAN -pharmaceutical -version of the drug, then it can be extremely safe, and extremely beneficial for the user, who may be unable ot quit using street-heroin without an opioid substitute.

I guess i've said my piece. No offence intended, just try to see it from an ADDICTS perspective, not from an ignorant ((never been in my shoes, you can't judge me, or the drugs i choose to take to better my life)).

Of course I don't understand opiate addiction. I wasn't aiming my comment at you, by the way, more the media which publicises it as a 'safe alternative'. Sorry if it looked like a personal attack on you - I guess I worded it badly!

Yes, I was the same.
At first smoking was my substitute.
Now I very very rarely go an evening without having a drink.
It's a pretty vicious circle.

Lewis said:
Of course I don't understand opiate addiction. I wasn't aiming my comment at you, by the way, more the media which publicises it as a 'safe alternative'. Sorry if it looked like a personal attack on you - I guess I worded it badly!

Ok Lewis, i too am sorry if i sounded a bit harsh. And i apologise if i sound harsh in this post...i don't mean to be, im just being direct. And sorry its a long read, i tend to ramble on and on and on sometimes!
Are you saying you DON'T understand opiate addiction, or do you mean you DO understand opiate addiction?

Cos if you do...then you will realise that methadone IS a "safe alternative" ((to street heroin...where MANY more people O.D and O.D fatally than people using methadone, esp. people PRESCRIBED methadone....The fact is that the media is ((in this RARE instance, when it comes to drugs!)) RIGHT. Methadone is a MUCH safer alternative to using street heroin with all the negative complications that brings. The fact is, that prescribed methadone is no-more dangerous than all the prescribed morphine or pethidine they use in hospitals.

You don't hear the media blame hospitals for using morphine on someone who broke their legs in a car accident do you? The only reason methadone is controversal is because its a REPLACEMENT opioid for an opioid addict. And as we all know too well from the media "drugs are baad" and that means addicts are "baaad" too. Everyone thinks a heroin user must be homeless, destitute, uneducated, stupid, etc. they don't realise that there are many functioning opiate addicts out there ((like many in the medical profession!!!)). So many people think that methadone is just indulging drug users, by giving them an easy way to maintain on an opioid when they ((in their opinion)) "should be clean". Well some people CAN'T stay clean, and WON'T stay clean. And for these people, using methadone can be extremely beneficial; if they want to quit, yet they can't.

I was one of the persons who just couldn't "stay clean". I tried numerous times to quit, both when i started out using codeine ((PURE codeine, so i was able to take VERY high dosages; at the end of one binge i was taking enough to kill two people)) and then later heroin. Without an opioid in my system, i feel incomplete. Like im missing something very important. And im much more sick -mentally speaking. I self-injure MUCH more, and MUCH more severely. When on an opioid, i rarely s-injure at all. And when im not on an opioid, im much more depressed, anxious, and have insmonia. When on an opioid these things are much less severe. I realised i just couldn't quit using opiates/opioids without being on an opioid substitute, like bupe or methadone. As i've mentioned, bupe didn't exactly work, so i tried methadone. And methadone HAS worked. I haven't touched illicit drugs for 3 years now.

And im SURE that i won't in the near future ((the longer you make it without your drug/s of choice, the easier it is))...with the help of methadone. I know if i was pulled off methadone tomorrow, i would go straight back to heroin. Purely to make my self feel "normal". And not depressed, anxious, not sleeping, cutting myself to shreds, using alcohol as a substitute ((and its a sh!tty substitute after you've been on opioids, but you NEED some CNS depressant and alcohol is easy to get and legal so....)).

There are numerous reasons WHY methadone is a much "safer alternative" to heroin ((or other (mis)used opioids))...its not some myth, with methadone you don't get any of the things i listed below, yet you DO get those things if your addicted to heroin ((or another opioid, but mainly heroin));

You have vascular problems as you begin to lose all your veins. You have dire financial problems as your habit spirals out of control. You DO things to get enough money to pay for your drugs...some people resort to dealing, others stealing, or committing other crimes...some people whore themselves out, suck dick or get sucked off to pay for heroin, others work themselves to the bone to pay for their habit. Your relationships fall apart as the drug becomes THE MOST IMPORTANT thing in your life. You become physically dependent on the heroin ((or other opioid, it could be morphine, pethidine, fentanyl, oxycodone etc.)) and get really sick without it.

Then when you can no longer sustain your binge, you go into withdrawals...horrible withdrawals where you get sick as a dog, but WORSE -you know the cure is only a phone call away, and you shoot up one little rock and you'll feel ALL BETTER. Plus the psychological symptoms of opiate withdrawals which i think are often over-looked cos it causes physical withdrawals as well...but you have severe depression, severe anxiety, severe insomnia ((in the 7 days it takes to get partially "free" from physical withdrawals, you only get a few hours sleep, even if you are drugged up to your eyeballs on CNS depressants)), etc.

Even for people who are taking say...hydrocodone ((mixed with paracetamol/acetaminophen)) ((lets call it APAP for short)) methadone is safer. Sure methadone is a MUCH more potent and powerful opioid than hydrocodone, but the hydro addict may be killing their liver due to all the APAP ((dunno why the americans call it acetaminophen!?!?))...then methadone could potentially save their life, by saving their liver. Cos "abuse" of hydrocodone with APAP can be extremely dangerous...people don't realize that popping some extra vicoden can really give the ole liver a hefty beating.

The only negative and TRUE negative thing about methadone, is its withdrawals. It's withdrawals are worse than heroin withdrawals or morphine withdrawals, mainly cos the withdrawals are so prolonged ((cos methadone is such a long acting opioid)). Where as it may take a week or two to get over the physical withdrawal symptoms of heroin, it may take weeks or months to get over methadone withdrawals. This is one definate negative. And believe me, if i had the opportunity, i would choose to be medicated with MORPHINE instead of methadone due to methadone's severe withdrawal symptoms. This makes it extremely difficult to get off methadone. Although now that buprenorphine is available...one could taper down to 30mg or less of methadone, then wait until your well and truly into withdrawals from methadone, then hop onto buprenorphine. Then stabilze, and taper from there. As its MUCH easier to get off bupe than methadone.

But i think you have a skewed view of methadone. Maybe its cos you haven't experienced opiate addiction first-hand. Maybe its because you've never actually used methadone to come off a dangerous and harmful habit when using heroin. Maybe its cos you've somehow read the wrong information. I don't know. But believe me, methadone is just as safe as the morphine they give to patients in hospital -under the supervision of a doctor, and prescribed to the right person for the right reasons. Now if some opiate-naive person drinks a large dose of methadone, of COURSE they're going to die. But that is the same as using heroin -and many more people die from heroin O.D's than methadone O.D's. This is indisputable. But when methadone ((or ANY opioid for that matter)) is PRESCRIBED and you take the dose that is prescribed for you...you won't die, you won't O.D. You will however, reap the beneficial effects of methadone.

This could be reduced cravings for heroin, getting stabilized on methadone, and possibly using methadone to better your life. Many people have been given the ability to better their life when they decide to use prescription methadone over street heroin. Instead of collapsing all their veins, risking bacterial infections at the site of the injection or other parts of the body like the heart ((a-la endocarditis)), not having any money for necessities, doing "dodgy" things or plain horrible things to get $$$ to finance your habit, risking O.D, risking fatal O.D, ruining relationships with people you like/love cos your too busy chasing down the drug, doing things to get $$$ for the drug, and using the drug....ALL of these things you can AVOID when using methadone. So yes, methadone IS A SAFE ALTERNATIVE to using street heroin ((or, like i said already, some much weaker opioids like hydrocodone, due to the amount of APAP being ingested which is terrible for the liver and can cause liver failure)).

I hope you can see things from my point of view. I know this from the "information" point of view ((i do my research on methadone, heroin, all opioids actually as well as other drugs; but opioids in particular fascinate me)), but ALSO from a "user's" point of view. Again, sorry if i seem harsh...i just disagree completley when you say methadone isn't a "safe alternative" ((to heroin)), because IT IS.

Sorry that was so long, didn't mean to ramble on and on :-)

Maybe you should stop hijacking this thread?

No need to be rude, BeautyFiend. It was a side topic to the original discussion which I think remained at least partially relevant. It's over and done with now.

Well, well, well. If this unpleasentness continues on, this thread is going to get locked. It makes me so mad to see peoples support threads become a stomping ground of bad tempers and conflicts.
Have some respect and decency, and stop making this thread into an arguement.

i apologise...i wasn't intending on it to become an argument...if i sounded argumentative in my posts it was un-intentional...im just direct and usually stick to the topic at hand...sometimes i go off on a different tangent, but if its still related to the thread i see no reason this would be an issue. Again, i didn't mean to appear like i was getting into a confilct or having a bad temper....i was having a discussion with Lewis, that's all.

Without trying to continue on with aforementioned unpleasantries, your previous post was rather prickly, but this is not just about your responses.
I just find it totally unfair when i see this type of behavour happening to other peoples threads. I mean, if it happened on my thread, i would feel completely awful. Wouldn't you?
I think people often lose sight of how what they say, and how they say it, can affect other people.
I sincerely think some apologies need to be made to OneLonelyTree.

Hm. I don't use alcohol as an alternative..I use them together..

I think its the urge to continuely do more harm to myself.

-Matt

I try not to do either, as one invariably leads to the other. But that's just me.

I apologise for derailing the thread somewhat, as did Dysphoria, and yes, our discussion probably should have been taken to private messages. But the initial 2 or 3 posts were all that was needed. No one said anything else since then, and in fact people complaining about it has only derailed the thread further. We both apologised and put an end to it long ago.

Now, as I have nothing further to add to this support thread, I'm going to leave it alone. Once again I apologise for derailing it, and I wish everyone in need of support here the best of luck. It's not really my area, though.

Just to add further to dysphoria's post:

I know methadone is prescribed to heroin addicts who are trying to quit and I've done some research into clonazepam and it would seem that it is a drug used to treat anxiety, but both are seemingly prone to cause addiction and misuse because of the stimulant affect that they have on the users. In particular, I know that heroin addicts can use methadone as a supplement to their heroin intake rather than as a replacement as a way of quitting - which is dangerous really because it makes their bodies more resistant to the drugs, meaning they have to take more and more to achieve the same high. So, both of the aforementioned drugs seem to be legal but I think that both are notorious for worsening addictive personalities and so, not necessarily something I'd suggest to members as an alternative for self-harm behaviours, although I can understand why that could be useful information to people wanting advice on how to deal with drug or alcohol abuse and can ask their doctors about these drugs as a way of reducing their addiction.

I don't really want to become involved in a big debate because I'm not going to pretend that I know an awful lot about the subject but, as much as dysphoria included a lot of positive information about the drugs he mentioned, there are always two sides to consider and I felt that it was important everyone was also aware of the dangers of these types of drugs as well as the manner in which they can help.

(Sorry to hijack the thread even more. *gives cookies*)

*post removed*

sorry - this was posted in the wrong forum

I drink in place of cutting. Unless I've had more than 2, in which case, I cut while drunk. But the numbness from drinking makes the cutting pointless. It has to hurt if it's going to work. Drinking makes me too tired to fight, and anger makes me drink. Sadness makes me cut. And I don't drink when I'm sad since that just makes me sadder, and cut deeper.

i went the opposite way. i cut to keep from drinking. then i realized that it was exactly the same for me. the rush i got from cutting altered my mood just like getting drunk. i would obsess about it the same way as well. now if i cut it is a relapse.
feel free to pm me if you want. i still do not know much about si recovery, but i do know about the booze.

i used to cut and burn myself, but i gave up on them. i felt like there was no rush and no point as it wasnt doing me any good, then i turned to alcohol and my depression and misused my antidepressants. not only that, i did things that i shouldn't have with them. and please don't get any ideas from this. please. now i'm taking adavantage of my age and using that to "feed" myself and my self-harming/self-injurying thoughts.

i hope i didn't break any forum rules. i'm just trying to contribute

Drinking is so much easier and more acceptable than cutting. I resent it for that (I've not cut for over a year) but still can't go a day without a drink.

Just gets harder cos I've recently given up smoking too. I hate my life.

Id tolike now. bUt be carful as you can end up cutting sorthing whenyou drunktoo and it can be bad casue you dont relisee

I agree with Steve's post, one does invariably lead to the other. When I knew I wanted to SI, I'd get drunk first, it made it easier. I still do that I guess, I know the drinking isn't good, just can't seem to stop, therefore the SI won't stop either!!