Question about self harm board
 

Are we allowed to post about what we like about self harm? Im not a regular poster here anymore and I'm not sure whats allowed here now.

I think it would be nice to talk to others about some of the less negative aspects of what i do. When I go on that board nowadays it seems so focused upon people recovering from self harm instead of talking about it honestly or the reasons why they do it. Thats fine and all but sometimes I just want to talk to people about why I enjoy cutting not how long its been since i last did it.

Im not saying I want to make a thread thats all "yeah go self harm woot", but one where i can openly say "So i cut myself the other week and its made this really neat scar." or "Sometimes I cut and it bleeds everywhere other times no blood? whys that?" Things like this I wouldn't post in the s/h forum, in case someone gets "triggered".

So am I the only one who would want something like this? And i guess more importantly would it be allowed?

1 - maybe a few others
2- No

Honestly if people start posting hey cut myself really deep and it leaves a great looking scar is basically just glamourising it, and what next people posting pictures of those said scars.

The fact this is a recovery site and the whole point is to get people to stop, some of the questions you posted you can ask, but we are not here to talk about the positive aspects of self harm (not that i feel there are any).

I don't think that is a good idea at all, I wouldn't want to see a thread like that on here.

Plus i've heard people say there is good things about SH, I have to ask, what is good about SH?

I really can't see anything good about SH but that's just me..

I think the second question about bleeding would be allowed but not the first one about scar talk/description because this is a recovery board, talking about any of the short term pros or perceived positives of self harm doesn't really fit with the recovery ethos since it is a much more 'pro' approach. People come to the site for a variety of reasons, not everyone is looking to stop self harming and that is ok because they can still get support for other emotional/general problems etc. for those that do come to recoveryourlife with the aim of reducing or stopping their self harm I imagine discussion about how 'neat' wounds or scars are could be potentially triggering and whilst a degree of personal responsibility is necessary they would have little reason to expect to find that kind of thread on a recovery site. That is just my take though.

I agree sometimes i would like to talk about self harm in the way you are asking about, I just don't think RYL is the place to do that.

If you look at what I wrote my example wasn't glamourising at least that wasn't the intent. If id have said instead "So i cut myself the other week and its made this really neat scar. does anyone else have any scars that they really like?" would that be more acceptable to you? Anyway its interesting that you straight away expect the thread to escalate to posting self harm images and glamourising self harm. Why are we scared to talk about what we do without putting it in a bad light?

This site isn't only about recovery, it's also about being open and accepting about our illnesses and habits. Also a question to you why is talking about what you like about self harm counter productive to recovery?

Thats ok thanks for your opinion.

Well I'm not sure if you self harm or not but if you do why do you think you do it? There is a reason why for everyone. It could be as simple a reason as helping you get through a hard day. I just don't personally see whats wrong with admitting that I like to self harm sometimes.

I would say that there is a fine line between what you are describing and the glamorising/pro aspects.

However, having said that, I do think there should be more discussion on the board, whether that be about positive or negative aspects of self-harm.

Becsause it reinforces how 'good' it is, thus encouraging continuation, not stopping.

The question about blood would only be allowed in the First Aid section I think, because I you said 'Oh, I cut here and it didn't bleed' or 'I cut here and it bled loads', it could be seen as tip-sharing.

Also, by saying 'this really neat scar' you are glamourising your self-harm becazuse you are basically saying that your cut has left you with something great.

Threads like this could pose a serious risk to any new members that came onto RYL who were in the early stages of self-harm, were considering self-harm, or came here to learn more about this illness.

I think this kind of discussion would draw RYL away from the whole 'recover' aspect and back towards the 'ruin' aspect.

I've been part of SH forums in the past that was less 'strict', and to be honest, I mostly just went on them when I was in a bad way, and almost to trigger myself or something. Everything was a competition and going on those kind of sites is, in itself, self-destructive.

Where do you draw the line? Self harm isn't a good thing; it's an addiction, like drugs or alcohol abuse. Ultimately, the aim of most people here is to either reduce, control, or stop their self-harm.

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, but there are a lot of things on RYL that would pose a risk to newer members. One is the expectation that people self-harm on a daily basis, and the escalation that undoubtedly comes with that. Another is the type of self-harm, and that there does seem to be a hierarchy of sorts, whether it is talked about and acknowledged or not.

At the same time where do you draw the line with things, talking about how scars are neat when self inflicted is glamourising to me, and what about people that dont cut? Do you really want to read countless posts of people saying "I love to overdose because of the feeling i get" for example. As said its a really fine line you are talking about.

Self-harm is not a good thing in any way shape or form, therefore if we talk about what we like it does glamourise it, the same with all the other methods of self harming. The problem is it can descend into tip sharing and people reading it thinking i want to try that.

So stopping self harm is the only reason you should be posting on the self harm board? I don't know something about this feels wrong to me. Do you think its impossible to be self harming and recovering at the same time?

Interesting. Why do you straight up expect the worst? "tip sharing" "glamourising" "serious risk". Blah. Like i said maybe its only me who thinks this but talking honestly about self harm doesn't mean I think everyone should rush out and do it if i can see some positive aspects to what i do. Why is self harm so bad that you can only view it in a negative light?

I think its this I disagree with the most. If self harm is all bad why do people do it? because it makes them feel better in some form. Is it so wrong to admit this and talk about it with others who do the same?

If someone is trolling the internet looking for a reason to self harm i promise you they will find it. I can understand if people want to try and minimise the risk of ryl being that place as much as possible, however I don't think that should be seen as the most important thing on a "recovery" site. I just think that if anywhere we should be open about our self harm then it should be the self harm board.

Hey thanks for the reply. Im not saying I want it to be like it was back in ruin. I don't mind the site being about recovery. But do you think this would stop people from recovering? you say you used to go to less recovery based sites to trigger yourself so how does ryl being only about getting better stop you from doing that?

Alcohol use does not equal alcohol addiction, self harm does not equal self harm addiction. Does not mean the same thing to me.

A lot of what you said makes sense to me. Maybe in the end you're correct but I think ryl could/should be a place where we could do this.

Self harm is bad because it can seriously injure you and even kill you unintentionally, yes people use it as a coping mechanism but its not a health one at the end of the day. Self-harm can leave scars, damage internal organs and make a person feel embarrassed about their body when they do recover with the damage that was left.

Also i think the use of alcohol and self harm are completely different and cant be compared. Some people like to drink but dont have an addiction to it, they just like to have a drink now and then, and there is little harm if they dont go over the guidelines. Self harm is different because unless people are drinking as they cant cope without a drink, then the same could be said for self-harm, it would be that easy to stop if we where not addicted. But the fact is people get addicted quite easily to it.

I disagree with a lot of this, but most of it just comes down to my opinion on self harm being different to yours. To me there is alot of "can" and "maybes" in this that can go both ways. So when you say people may be embarrassed by there scars I know people who are proud of them and what they stand for. I understand if you dont agree with me on this and thats ok =).

If you check I was replying to an example of alcohol/self harm. I agree they are different if only because one is socially acceptable and one isn't.

Isn't it against forum rules to discuss why you like SH as it can fall into tip sharing/glamourising?

No, but you can say "Oh, I drink socially" and not be an addict, but you can't say "Oh, I self harm occasionally" and not be a self harmer. Self harm can never been a good thing, surely?

I used those sites when I was bad, and I would go on them, and see all the awful stuff other people were doing (and new ways of doing it) was incredibly competitive and encouraging. And it made it seem like what I was doing wasn't really that bad - everyone was doing it. It normalises self harm, and that really isn't a good thing.

Apples and oranges, really.

For the record, I think self-harm is not a road to go down, it doesn't help anything and just causes more problems than it is meant to solve. But when comparing it and discussing it we should use similar comparisons.

So does RYL.

To a lesser extent. The rules that are in place here minimise the dangers that other forums pose. I've rarely seen stuff here that triggered me, and yet on other sides almost everything was 'who can do it the best'.

Haha come on that example doesnt work at all. Of course drinking socially doesnt make you an addict. it does however make you a drinker, in the exact same way that self harming makes you a self harmer. Does not equate.

Do you think a thread like this would necessarily end up just being for that? do you see no value in what im asking about? honest question.

I think that this is important. Ryl is a place where people go to talk about self harm to other self harmers. I believe that there is more to self harm then just recovering from it.

That's competition (which is a problem, I agree), not necessarily normalisation.

Personally, I'd like to see more openness and free discussion about self-harm on here. We have already gotten rid of the *ZOMGTRIGGERING!!!* labels, which was definitely a step in the right direction.

I'm pretty sure RYL used to be a place where people who self-harm could just 'be', no matter what their stage of recovery. Of course, the aim was probably always that they recover, but that they'd be welcome even if not. That's how I see the ethos of a "safe place" for self-harmers, not that everything is covered up, hidden and silenced.

It's interesting how many people here are actively saying that self harm can in no way be a good thing (and as a side point - yet continue to SI). Self harm is a coping mechanism - a maladapted coping mechanism - but a coping mechanism nonetheless.

There's a huge benefit to being able to speak honestly and openly about SI - and I know that people have mentioned before that they found the 'yay! go recovery! Nobody talk about bad things!' aspect of this site suffocating, and subsequently left to go to more open environments. The thing is it's such a difficult one to balance.

I used to go to an open ED site; it wasn't pro ED, but it allowed honest discussion (such as "I did x or ate x calories today and it felt good") but it also allowed honest responses ("that's not enough because it will screw up your body for x and y reason", "I had a really bad experience doing that - I nearly died because x happened") which you can't get so much in this environment, because you can't go into any specific detail. It was good, but you had to be in the right mindset and able to handle replies - I wouldn't be convinced that many people on this site would be able to emotionally handle such honest (and brutal) responses.

The thing is, this site has been so recovery-focussed for so long, it would be very hard to change the mindset here. And I'm not entirely sure that people would want it to be changed. There are definitely benefits for a site like this, and there's no doubt it's helping some people. I do think that there is space for a place that is a lot safer and more positive than Ruin, but not quite as safe as RYL is now - but I don't think RYL is the place for that.

I dont know if that makes sense.

But it is maladapative. Yes, I self harm. No, I'm not trying to stop. But I do hope I will one day. And belonging to a site which actively encouraged self harm, would not be conducive to that.

There is a time and a place for discussing self harm, and RYL really isn't it. Anyway, back on topic, OP is suggesting things like:
would be okay, which insinuates that the self harm behind it is ok, which essentially glamorizes self harm.

There is a difference between discussing it, and encouraging it. I've seen many threads where it seems like it is essentially a woe pit of competition to see who can come up with the most extreme story. I don't think those are particularly recovery-orientated, or particularly helpful or pleasant to read.

I think starting a thread saying that a scar is "neat" is borderline. Although I'm sure there have been similar threads before.

I completely and utterly disagree. RYL is a forum about self-harm, populated largely by self-harmers. It should be somewhere where self-harm can be discussed openly and freely. Everyone's experiences and feelings are different, and being able to talk about them could well be to the benefit of everyone.

What you've said there is almost like self-harm is a taboo subject!

Sorry, just had to point this out... Double entendre? Or just me in a weird mood...

I have no idea how you can think this?

But some people do find that productive to recovery. Brutal honesty and openness works for some people. Like I said, RYL probably isn't the place for such honesty - but there can be positive outcomes of open discussions.

Also, RYL isn't the place to discuss SI? Then what should we discuss?

Haha, totally didn't mean that! Puntastic.

This whole post. Im not suggesting we change the whole site to be about glamorising self harm. Im not saying that we should actively encourage self harm. Why do you think this would make it so? Admitting that I self harm does not glamorise self harm does it?

I just wanted to say that I think that there should be more discussion in the SH board. Whenever I go on there now it's all "I relapsed again" or "I feel like I'm going to relapse again"

I think we should talk about it a bit more and be more comfortable in doing so. I always feel very hesitant posting things, especially if they aren't completely recovery based. I don't think we should be all "I love self harm, is the best!", but I do wish we could talk more honestly about it.

Anyways, that was probably kind of a useless comment but whatever...

I sometimes think that being able to discuss the percieved positives more explicitly would make it easier for people to give suggestions to people who want help. Because not everything works for everyone, and it is fairly situational

Just because it is a coping mechanism doesn't make it good, it just makes it the lesser of two evils surely?

I think discussing self-harm is different to what the OP suggested in their first post on this thread tbh.

I felt I should throw in my two cents on a few points brought up so far, in no particular order:

1. RYL does not necessarily normalise self-harm. I can understand why some would think it does, but in my case at least, RYL made me realise that I wasn't such a freak for self-harming. There is a subtle but very real distinction between feeling such behaviour is totally normal and feeling like you're not alone.

2. RYL is most certainly a place to discuss self-harm. It's kind of the point of the site, after all. But I think there should be limits to how open we can be. Even if the intention is not to glamourise or encourage, if I were to say "I cut today and I feel so much better, my stress just bled right out of me," I think members in the difficult early stages of recovery might read that and think "god I want to feel that again." If we were to institute a similar complete-openness policy on the ED board, we'd get posts like "I reached my goal weight today and I'm so proud of myself," which would inevitably lead to some members thinking "if she can do it, I can, I just need to restrict more." I would consider that level of openness and honesty acceptable on the R/V board (so long as things like tipsharing and numbers were omitted), but not on boards whose goal is to aid recovery. Posts like that, on those boards, would hinder recovery for some and delay the decision to recover for others.

3. There is a difference between accepting a problem and accepting that you have a problem. The latter is a positive thing - admitting to yourself that you have a problem may help convince you to seek help. But the former is embracing self-destruction, which is definitely not a good thing.

4. Talking honestly about the positives of self-harm will not lead to everyone rushing out and trying it for themselves. But some probably will, whether to experience those positives for themselves or because they feel they need to compete. I'm not saying a frank and open discussion will lead to competition, but it may instill competitive thoughts in some members.

5. If someone is trolling the internet looking for a reason to self-harm, yes, they will find it. We can't stop them, but why the hell should we make it easier for them by potentially making some RYL threads a reason to self-harm? Again, the intention may not be pro-self-harm or glamourising. But it's reckless to assume that people won't be encouraged just because encouragement wasn't the intention behind the thread.

My two penneth:
Whilst i agree there could be more discussion about self harm,the line between recovery oriented and pro isn't something that can be neatly put in boxes,people will view what they find to be pro differently to others,that's without adding triggers into the mix.
If the op had asked whether a discussion about "why people self harm/what people get from it" then id be more inclined to agree with them,but the "neat scar" type discussion could quickly get out of hand-in a competition type way,which usually leads to all hell breaking loose.
So Im against it.

If i joined RYL now, i would not really see it as a self harm support site.

All the general chat boards are above the ones regarding 'issues' and the areas of the forum specifically about self harm are some of the least active.

Personally (totes just my opinion and not the opinion of all the mods/the site/Harley etc) i feel RYL currently does a lot to normalise sitting in a pit of woe and keeping yoursel ill, yet discourages discussion of the practicalities of having mal adaptive behaviours as part of normal life.

Which is quite funny really because at meets and such self harm is discussed as casually as anything else, and even with some humour, yet on a self harm support site, it seems to be taboo.

Lets face it, for the majority of people, self harming is inflicting superficial wounds upon yourself to make you feel better. Most people dont die from it.


/ramble.

<3


To me, that seems like a standard support thread, more so if you added in another sentence about struggling with recovery and the point of it.

As for the ED board, I think it'd be more like "I didn't eat enough today and I'm feeling really good about it. I know this is wrong and need a boost to help me see the positives of recovery."

Like you said, if someone is wanting any excuse to be made upset then they will find it. You say why should be enable them, I say why should we stop everyone else from discussing what they want to?

Just want to say I see this all the time, and how good not eating feels. And when these discussions crop up it breeds discussion about 'what do you get from that and is there anything else that can substitute for that feeling'. So it still becomes productive but allows a frank discussion. I expect the same thing would happen when discussing 'a really nice scar'.

I don't see why this discussion wouldn't be helpful in helping the poster explore their feelings and own them for what they are. There'd still be a recovery slant on replies but it wouldn't remove the ability of frank and open discussions.

I think you should be allowed to. There's a lot of negative energy in the recovery forums that feeds more and more self-deprecation and frustration.

In my opinion, someone who relies on posting threads about how he or she needs help feeling better after doing something bad is not dealing with their problems in the best way. (Apparently it's works in the long run, but how much does it really do to progress (maybe even hinder) one's recovery?) Seeking advice from others about how to feel, what to do, and how to deal with the consequences of actions might not be the best way for some people to approach recovery, because doing so means one takes no responsibility for managing his or her own life.

There is a fine line between glamourising SH and sharing positivity as a way of boosting confidence and applying that confidence towards recovery methods. If that can be done I think it would be fantastic. I wouldn't hold out for it, though. :(


And let hte record show that Charlie is my hero.

I think it's important to discuss the benefits of self harm to understand why you do it. But that's difference to talking about liking certain scars or tools and the like.

lol.

Beautiful pun.

I'm aware that I'm not contributing anything valuable here at all. Oh well. No change there :p

My two cents worth is quite simply...

I don't self harm a lot. Most of my time is spent finding reasons not to and I usually succeed. Reading, "I cut and it felt so good" or good things about self harm will flat out make me want to self harm and quite often I end up doing it because it puts thoughts into my head that it's okay "just this one time" because it worked for these people.

Feel free to bash me for my opinion as is the way of the Internet. Thank you.

But, then it is your responsibility to avoid what you find triggering or deal with the consequesces of a triggering situation. You cant expect people to not talk about something simply because you find it triggering.
I think we all find something positive in SH'ing, otherwise we wouldn't do it so should we avoid talking about and exploring these feelings because it may trigger someone? Is avoiding them, not just contributing to making these feelings more taboo?

I completely agree with this.

Different things trigger different people - and what members on the site find triggering is so varied. If we didn't talk about ANYTHING that we all found triggering, there wouldn't be anything left to talk about.

If you know something triggers you, avoid that part of the bored until your okay reading about that subject. But you are on a self harm site, so you should expect to see a lot of discussion about cutting, eating disorders and self harm and to an extent - a degree of triggering content on this site.

I agree with Anna and Amy, and also want to add that I think at some point, one needs to explore the reasons they self harm aka the 'positives' for them. It is only then that they can get an objective look from others going - 'okay, that may be a positive for you, but did you consider x y z consequences? What other ways can you achieve that perceived positive without harming yourself?'

Through looking at these real reasons why we self-harm, we can find a solution that is going to replace the use of self-injury and thus be a more likely candidate in helping us maintain recovery. It's more than just reading 'it felt good', it's about probing into why it felt good and exploring feelings and reasons in a mature way.

I think if your mindset is at a vulnerable state, whereby someone self-harming gives you 'permission' in your mind to self-harm, then I think it's best to stay off the boards discussing self-injury until you're a bit stronger in your convictions and able to challenge your thoughts, or look objectively at the situation.

And Eli, to clarify, I'm not bashing your thoughts as is the way of the internet. I'm just explaining my viewpoint, I understand yours may be different.

This. 100% this.

We need to talk about all aspects of Self Harm - both positive and negative to aid recovery.


I've seen members in the past talking about how they think the site is 'bubble wrapped' as it is, if we limit the things we talk about even more, than feeling is going to spread to more members and they won't feel like (I'm assuming here, but it's probably true) they can come here, because they aren't allowed to talk about the things they need to.

Completely agree.

Exploring why you find it so good and why it feels so good to self harm could be helpful because then you could, like you say, try and find other things that give you the same [or at least near close] relief that self harm does, but also explore the whys and hows and such, in general, learning more about yourself and your struggles and your mind/emotions, etc, just in general finding out more about yourself and why you self harm, even if it's not to recover, but to just in general discuss it and discover things about it for yourself.

I do agree with others where saying on this particular site it's a fine line on what is and isn't glamorizing, so maybe we could create some examples for people on what would be glamorizing, and then changing it into another way of saying it so it wouldn't be as such?
I'm not sure.

I'm not triggered easily, so I don't really have problems with reading things like people loving the blood, the gore, the deep wounds, the scars left behind, etc, but I think there is such a fine line on what is acceptable to say and what isn't, and what could be mistaken for being pro as such, and other people do get triggered easily and perhaps aren't prepared for what could be in a thread.

I think what you said is a good point though Aimee,

"I think at some point, one needs to explore the reasons they self harm aka the 'positives' for them. It is only then that they can get an objective look from others going - 'okay, that may be a positive for you, but did you consider x y z consequences? What other ways can you achieve that perceived positive without harming yourself?'

Through looking at these real reasons why we self-harm, we can find a solution that is going to replace the use of self-injury and thus be a more likely candidate in helping us maintain recovery. It's more than just reading 'it felt good', it's about probing into why it felt good and exploring feelings and reasons in a mature way. "

- All of this, I agree with 100%!!!

I think exploring both the negatives and the positives could be really useful, because that way, you can be logical about the negatives, and with the positives, you can try to find other ways to find these positives[healthier ways], and also be logical about them too, to explore why it is you want whatever it is self harm gives you.


I do think there should be more talk on the self harm board of people who are not recovering but do want to obviously discuss what's going on for them, right now, I see a lot "I'm about to relapse" "I've gone x days without self harm but it's about to go down the drain" "I feel like I'm gonna slip up", a lot of statements that indicate people who are actively trying to recover or are recovering, but not much from people who aren't recovering, and are struggling themselves...

People who aren't recovering though, do have different mindsets than those who are trying to recover - obviously.

So, maybe we could get the ball rolling somehow for people to feel more comfortable in being open about what's happening for them and about their self harm, even if they aren't actively recovering?

Maybe say what wouldn't be acceptable and glamorizing, and what would be, if people are going to explore the positives of self harming?



I'm sorry this is so longggg, but yeh, I do think we could be more lenient and more open with the self harm discussions and in general.

I could have just said that, but yeah, I like the long rambles haha.

Sorry then. Carry on...

People do have to take responsibility for themselves, I do agree with what everyone else is saying about this, especially if they are in an unsafe mindset and are easily triggered as it is, you have to take the responsibility of not going in certain boards if they trigger you/will trigger you and make you want to act on urges.

We aren't ignoring you, but we are pointing out you need to be responsible for yourself and recognize if you are feeling like you want to self harm, and if seeing certain things will make you feel it's okay to self harm because other people are or in general just trigger you more, then you need to avoid going near the self harm board and perhaps just take a break away from this site and the computer in general if you are going to be triggered by being on this site and seeing these things and come back when you are in a better mindset and able to deal with seeing triggering things.

We all have to take responsibility for ourselves, more so when we are in an unsafe, unstable place, and yes, it can be difficult to do this, but this site is full of triggering materials and words and such, that can't be helped, but what you can do is help yourself when you're thinking being on here could make things worse.

The discussion just sounds like we have to make all of RYL open... it doesn't really sound like I'd have any place to go if I wanted to avoid "open" conversation as there wouldn't be a rule and it could be... anywhere... that idea is scary to me as I like this site but if that becomes the case i don't think i can use the forums anymore or i will only worsen my own behaviours.

I understand that it can be a scary prospect perhaps, because it would mean there would be both sides of self harm, positives and negatives, being discussed, but perhaps these threads could be labeled as such if it's going to cause triggers for people if they see the positives and could trigger them into wanting those positives?
I know there's a lot of people who hate labels as it is, and want to cut down on them though.
I'm not sure, but some people just want to be able to discuss the other side of self harm, where in they aren't recovering but still want to be open about what's happening for them and their self harming, but I do understand it could be a scary change.
Like I said, maybe we could say what wouldn't be acceptable and glamorizing, and what would be, if people are going to explore the positives of self harming?

I'm not sure what to suggest here!
Don't want to cause any arguments or be attacked lol, so I don't know.
x

I don't see the point in excessive labeling... but i think it's silly to think that some people don't benefit from a simple "possible trigger" warning on a thread...

Perhaps that could be put in place then? Saying it may trigger beside the title if it's going to be about this? I know talking about the positives of self harming can certainly be triggering for a lot of people, but it can be useful to identify these positives so you can explore deeper into why you're craving these positives that self harm seems to provide, even if it's short term. It could help some people, but I know it could also be very graphic and triggering for others. So maybe this could be an idea too, putting that it may trigger/is triggering?

x