Therapy - At what point is it too much?
 

There are people on this site who have been in therapy for years. Does anyone think that this is unhealthy or the therapist stringing them along? Is there a healthy amount of time for a therapeutic relationship? How long should one be in therapy? You get the idea.

I think it depends on the individual and what the aims of the therapy are as to how long it should last. The aims are usually discussed and chosen in the first or second session. And they can change during the course of therapy depending on how it goes and external situations. The length decided at the start can be reviewed and changed along the way depending how the client is getting on. A psychotherapist I used to see, said at a review I had when an inpatient just over a decade ago, that I should be in some kind of psychotherapy for life. lol. However, I've managed without it for the most part since being discharged and probably won't seek it ever again. Being stuck in that system when it isn't necessary would just bring me down. The idea of me having it for life was thought up by a psychotherapist working at the Priory I was in. So maybe she wasn't as aware as she should be about the reality of just how costly that would be to implement long-term. Also she might not have been able to predict me recovering as well as I did, at the time.
Personally I find it impossible to answer how long a person should be in therapy because one person might need 3 months, while another - 5 years. Especially as the severity of what they're in therapy for is so different from person to person. Also, dredging things up as happens in therapy doesn't work for everyone. Some actually benefit from leaving the past in the past, with perhaps counseling focusing on the future instead or maybe no professional intervention is required at all.

Why do you think a therapist would string a client along?
Do you mean if it's paid for, i.e for the monetary gain?

I think if a patient feels the sessions should end they have every right to stop them.

I think a therapist could string along a client for money or for the goal of having power over that person.

It's just that I have a problem with the thought of people being in therapy for years and relying on that one person and wonder how healthy it is?

I understand some people will have complex problems but is years of therapy really a helpful/healthy way to deal with it or at some point does that person need to go it alone.

I don't really buy into psychotherapry per se I suppose I'm just cynical. I'm more for practical therapies such as cbt, dbt, cat.

Would think that if a therapist tried to string someone along in order to have power over them, they're in the wrong job. But I guess it might happen.

Relying on one person isn't healthy, but a person could attend therapy alongside relying on people in their personal life too like their partner / friends. I think it's especially unhealthy if the client substitutes the therapist for the sort of person that they need in their personal life that they perhaps don't have. Or don't make efforts to develop relationships away from the therapist because they don't feel they have to.

I'm not sure years of therapy is helpful either, sometimes it might just perpetuate the problem unnecessarily. Like, if you keep talking about something and giving it significance, it'll have that significance. I think therapy can be good to teach the client the tools they need to break away and use on their own. But I wouldn't totally rule out years of therapy being appropriate in some cases.

I did DBT for three years, repeating each module and can definitely say I took more away from that in terms of practical skills I can remember and still use, than I did from psychotherapy. I can't even really remember what I talked about in psychotherapy as I begun it when I was 14, apart from that from time to time it just wound me up, lol.

It definitely depends on the client and the therapist whether or not the therapy is successful. I mean, sometimes a therapist and a client don't connect and nothing is accomplished, so the therapist wants the client to keep coming because he or she isn't seeing any progress. But really the client would be more likely to achieve progress if he saw a different therapist or just didn't go to therapy at all.

Some people don't even need therapy and can get over their problems on their own. I think some people an definitely benefit from therapy, but some people can't be as honest with other people as they can with themselves.

But, sometimes people can't work things out themselves and they need a longtime therapist to help them with everything and it truly does help them.

But in every situation, the client should know what's best for him/herself, and if they feel like therapy is doing nothing, then they should leave. But if it's helpful, they should be able to decide for themselves that they want to keep doing it.

If a therapist is telling a client that they should stay and the client doesn't feel like it's helpful, it shouldn't matter what the therapist says. The client ultimately knows himself better than the therapist knows him.

I was in therapy for 6 months. And I am not on a 2 year therapeutic break while I get referred elsewhere.

While I don't think it was the 'right' time for that break, they *are* beneficial, and people should have them. Because it shows you that you *can* cope alone and makes you less dependent on therapists.

People need realisation to find themselves - not analysis. Analysis can often block realisation. People need that "aha!" moment and not going around in circles for years talking and thinking about the same things over and over. When the mind is clear and still, many of the things a person needs to know come into view of objective awareness. Then the soul is quickened and freedom is at hand

I don't know, I think it depends on the kind of therapy. I had two years if intensive psychotherapy (3x/week), a year in a residential TC (group analysis), three years of psychology sessions (1x/week or fortnight), and am currently in a year-long day TC (group analysis).

I feel I've really benefited from the therapy, though the progress has been slow. I've been told by psychiatrists that skills-based therapies probably wouldn't be helpful to me and that analytic therapies work for me. However, I really struggled right up until I stabilised on medication a year ago - that's when the positive effects of the therapy became really clear. I don't understand much about the psychological processes, I just know that I'm a different person now to the one I was before all this therapy.

I do wish I'd taken a therapeutic break after leaving the residential TC, though, because I think the work I did in psychology in some ways undid some of the previous work (not the psychologist's fault, she was great, it just didn't really work for me, possibly because of not taking meds alongside). I will certainly be taking a therapeutic break after leaving my current treatment.

My first therapist told me I may choose to/need to re-enter therapy at different points in my life, though she didn't say why. We'll see. If I do, it's no bad thing, in my opinion, it just is as it is. If it works for you, why not, I guess. Hopefully I won't need to though.

^[To Jack] At the same time, therapy can help that happen.

I know 100% that I probably wouldn't have even started to question the negative thoughts I have about myself if it hadn't been for my clinical psychologist. I made very little physical progress while with her, but by the end of it, I was able to say 'but what if you're not right' to the voices in my head. And THAT was such a huge step for me that I may never have made alone.

Good question!

I know when i was first in counselling it was a mixture of me not wanting to stop sh-ing but i didn't dare say that to my counsellor , me not really wanting to be in counselling and me and her not really getting along, I was the one who felt like i was wasting her time. I saw her for about 6 months but then when i look back i think i was leaning on her for support.

When i was with CAMHS i saw a CPN for just over a year, i got on really well with her and it did really help.

People have suggested sometimes ringing adult services up, but i know once i do get support i will lean on that person and that itsn't healthy , its nice to have someone to lean on but they wont be there all the time.

So.. i think it really depends on the person .

Sometimes. I don't think its often though. I don't even think most therapists know what they are doing. I think many if not most make things worse. We have had an EXPLOSION of therapists, social workers etc over the last 40 years and all problems have escalated exponentially. Psychology got bogged down in chemistry and treats people as souless - without a conscience - just a mess of chemicals and hormones. Modern psychology is actually a lot more barbaric than people realise. I mean its medieval stuff.

Plus a person has to want to be better. Many people want to feel better without being better. Its like the gambler who is sick of losing but isn't sorry for gambling. Therapists for people like that become a crutch. They can get a sense that they are working on things when they really aren't. That ends up serving as a block

^*glares*

I hope you're not insinuating that my future career is fruitless. *hits*

And all but 1 of the therapists I have met (both as a patient and a colleague) have been fantastic at their jobs.

Maybe you have just met crap ones.

Also, I agree with your second paragraph. If the patient doens't want to get better, they won't. Simples.

I thought you were going to be an actress?
I don't keep company with therapists, psychologists etc anymore. I know an awful lot of their clients though lol

I'd love to be an actress, but let's be realistic! I don't want to be famous, so that goes against me.

I promise to be a good psychologist though! I have empathy which is a start! Ha

I'm not sure. I've had therapy over about 10 years of my life, adding up to about 6 years of therapy (since I had breaks between them) and about 4 different psychologists/counsellors/psychiatrists. I feel that sometimes I really needed it and I made good healthy progress. Other times it allowed me to indulge in unhealthy behaviours because I knew I could "confess my sins" to my therapist in a safe place and he/she would help me make it better.

I'm at a point now where I'd love to sink back into the safety of the therapist's couch but for a range of reasons I can't and I kind of think it's safer for me to tough it out on my own.

Ah you could end up being too empathetic and catching what your clients get. You should know being a "mental health" person is dangerous since people can transfer a lot of their negative stuff to them. A lot of head pokers are not too well themselves and try to help others as a rounded way of helping themselves. Doctors -especially psychiatrists have one of highest suicide rates.

Am I depressing you lol. JK - I have high expectations you'll do well at something no matter if its honest work or not

"Why Shrinks Have Problems"
http://www.psychologytoday.com/artic...-have-problems

I've managed not to 'catch' so far!

And we shall just agree that you have a dislike of MH workers and I think you're wrong. because other wise you'll end up insulting me and others.

Actually I have no feelings toward them one way or another. They just muddle through as if they know things. Just like bankers, brokers and others who broke the economy despite advanced degrees. I go by the field as a whole. I would debate any of them - even from Oxbridge or Camford

So basically, you like no profession!

Agree with that. I've noticed a lot that therapists etc. contradict themselves from appt. to appt. Much of the time it seems that they're just making it up as they go along with no skill.

No even a sketchy profession can have great people in it. There are good therapists - but its because they have sense and care in the right way. For a lot of social worker types, they try to save people from a sense of inferiority about who they are. Unconsciously or not, the more needy people there are and the more needed they feel the more they like it. That's true in a lot of professions. If cancer was cured tomorrow there really would be doctors and undertakers bummed out because they would make less.

Now I have degrees but not in business. Yet I could see what was coming in economy. For over 10 years homes were getting more and more expensive. Little hovels in bad areas and with no land were selling for sky high prices. People were buying thinking homes always went up in value. On top of that people were getting suckered into big loans they couldn't afford. I could see a lot of people were caught up in a fantasy that even the "experts" weren't acknowledging.

There is a lot of that mutual false assurance in mental sciences. I see kids who are upset because of things at home. A teacher picks up on it and sends them to school counselors - who aren't good for too much. Then the kid gets bumped up to a psychologist who puts them through a few billing cycles before pronouncing the kid "borderline" or unresponsive".

Somewhere along the way the kid gets meds. If not from a psychiatrist (who is often the step "up" from the psychologist who passed them on) then from a doctor - who usually doesn't even monitor the kids during the activation phase or when coming off. Meds are tried willy nilly and if one doesn't work another drug gets thrown at the wall to see if it sticks.

The amazing thing is no "chemical imbalance" in depression etc has never been identified - and nobody is tested for one (as say with thyroid) but people are medicated anyway. Then you have radicals who say a soul doesn't exist and faith in one is "unscientific" - and then put their faith in treatment protocols that have none of the conclusive science they claim they go by. I've read the meta-surveys that say so.

Meanwhile, the kids problems might have started because of parents who are neglectful, abusive etc. The parents get off and the kid get treated as the problem when they are just the extension, victim etc of someone else's problem. Heck even schools make kids feel bad.

In the end, the kids ends up fixing themselves after going through the mental matrix. I've seen it here 100s of times. Most of the time people end up getting better because of things THEY realize somewhere along the way. The idea people have to see therapist for years is crazy to me lol.

If people want to save themselves a lot of self-doubt and time, money etc. they should realize most people in most professions really aren't that good. Some are awful, a few are good, most are mediocre at best. Anyone who trusts a banker, shrink, doctor, lawyer etc as if they are really smart and doubts their own abilities is asking for troubles. They can be of use of course and the sensible person knows how to use that. I tell you truly MOST people here can fix themselves when they are A) sincere B) dedicated C) honest and searching D) does their own research E) doesn't get caught up in the spin/hype. I knew as soon as I got to uni psychologists didn't know near as much as they pretended to - like a lot of others.

To e honest I think anyone who trusts anyone implicitly is a bit dim. Take advice from many sources but ultimately make the decision yourself. Same goes for therapy. Listen, learn and take on board. But make the behavioural/cognitive changes yourself. For some, this takes time, others can do it quickly. It's down to the individual.

It's not about being dim. People who need to see psychotherapists etc. will often look to the professional to make them feel better, and place a lot of stock in what the professional says through desperation to be relieved of their distress or psychological symptoms.
Often people who are referred to these so-called professionals lack the logic to pick and choose out of any of the support coming their way, which is wise to accept and which is not. Because the distress that's caused them to seek support in the first place will often make them of general irrationality, if not mentally unsound. They trust the professional because they've been given hope this person is going to bring them improvement. And building trust with the professional is often incorporated and encouraged during the course of sessions.
In saying this though, simple things like having anyone at all to speak to who has a reassuring tone, and has to follow the 'unconditional positive regard' stipulation that therapists have to abide by, towards the client i.e can't show any negativity towards them as apposed to such they probably will have experienced from people in the rest of their life - can go a long way.
But then the same could be gleamed from chatting to a good friend for free.

How many psychotherapists does it take to change a lightbulb?

One, but only if the lightbulb really wants to change.

Teehee.

i told my psychologist that one! ^

personally, ive been in therapy, mostly IP for about 6 years, and im still messed up.

works for some, doesnt work for others.
and the different kinds too, art therapy, psychodrama, dbt, cbt etc
its about finding the right one, and you get out of it what you put into it.

My friend at school got hit over the head with a chair and nothing was done, so we complained and they decided to send us to the councellor to 'make sure we felt safe' and this councellor spent three sessions trying to undermine me and make me out to be a bad person basically. I know this probably sounds a bit paranoid, but one session devoted to:
did you make it up?
No
Did you not even exaggerate a little bit?
No
Are you sure you didnt say something you didnt mean to in the heat of the moment?
I didnt
It wasnt reall that bad was it?
He hit her with a chair
Did you make it up?


We then moved on to school generally, where i got told off every time i said anything negative, and cried every time. After three sessions i just stopped turning up.
She was a really unscrupulous person, she put the schools aims and wants above those of the kids she was dealing with, whenever someone complained about bullying, and there was quite a lot of it, they got sent for a course on making friends with her instead of the people doing this being punished. Thats my only experience of any kind of therapy or counselling or whatever, but it asnt put me of completely, id still try again. Id just take a healthy does of skepticism with me. And im pretty sure they'd have kept me there as long as it was in their best interests to make out that i had a problem, i saw them so it to lots of people. Sometimes counselling, in schools anyway, can just be the easy option

It depends on the therapy type, and the person's own situation (type of problem, the number of problems). For example, CBT is a very structured therapy and is meant to be used for a set number of sessions (the number depends on the problem and [sub]type of therapy). Psychoanalysis on the other hand is classically a very lengthy process - Freud worked with his patients for years on a very regular basis (modern psychoanalysis has been worked on to make it shorter as obviously therapy for years is pretty expensive, but the modern version is still lengthy).

Apologies for lack of personal perspective, if that's what you were looking for.

Out of interest, what do you do/are you studying to do?

There's no hidden motivation, I'm simply curious.

evidence please? Preferably something that also shows causation, which is what you're implying.
I completely disagree with your last point. As for the bit I've highlighted, what makes you think that you're right? Many psychiatric disorders have been scientifically shown to be linked with chemistry, I could cite specifics if you like (please note: I do not ever imply causation where it has not been 100% proven). Conscience, which you mention, is a very debatable topic, and I personally feel the conscience that you're referring to (morality, rather than the state of being conscious, in opposition to being comatose or dead) is more in the realm of religion and philosophy to discuss, and not clinical psychology, psychiatry, or psychotherapy. Souls, likewise, cannot be scientifically proven; I don't mind people believing in souls, but I wouldn't like it seen as an accepted fact in my discipline.
But basically, you can dislike psychologists, that's your right, and I can't, and don't aim to change that, I take it you have had a bad experience with the profession or something, but please don't make unfounded arguments. To make such strong statements, you need very strong evidence.

I'll wander off now before I get into an argument, this isn't the board.

I trained as a therapist and we were taught that everyone is different and the length of therapy differs from person to person and for reason for the therapy.

I've seen therapists twice and that was it but in the same vein I saw a therapist for 7 years and she was great. No exxageration but she saved my life and taught me many things. Therapy did not end out of choice but circumstance but that is going off the point.

Any decent therapist should know when the therapy is not working - they just have to be 'man enough' to admit it. And to realise it's not working. That may be no-one's fault and just a circumstance. Wrong 'type' of therapy - Person Centred, Gestalt, DBT, CBT etc. Wrong 'sex' of therapist - male or female. And so on.

Also it's not really in a decent therapist's interests to keep on a relationship that isn't working.

In the UK, look out for the counsellor/therapist being BACP accredited, ahh there's another accredited association but it's slipped my mind. We had to be BACP registered as student's!! You can ask to see your therapist's qualifications and you can ask and get proof that they are accredited to an appropriate council.

Read - Jung. Ken Wilber. John Rowan.

Plenty of soul there!
---
UKCP is the other.

UKCP - that's the one, cheers Stellata!

What will reading those show people? I can't imagine I and others want to clutter our own interests and reading lists with something in which we hold little faith.

Jack was saying how psychology has no soul. For those who're interested, those professionals talk/talked a lot about the soul. It wasn't a pressure on anyone.

I find it ironic that You have a bible quote in your sig hehe

What is the irony?

Well that's one way of looking at it.

But reading about views we hadn't thought of before thus learning is interesting and might encourage a person to perceive from an alternate angle. If we all stuck to our own 'reading lists' rigidly we'd be stuck in ruts.

What's wrong in expanding our interests beyond the ones we have already?

I seem to remember you took issue with the idea of having an open-mind in a thread in GC.

Though you attempt to speak for 'others,' I for one welcome the opportunity to read about new subjects on the recommendation of someone else. Apart from anything else it's then good for future conversation about what's then become mutual knowledge.

I have read stuff on psychotherapy before btw if that really bothers you so much. Found it full of psychobabble crap and could not see how it could get someone better although no doubt it does.

I was thinking the same thing! Entertained me.

What do you believe would make someone better?

I have different views, for sure, but for you, do what works for you, and let others follow their own paths.

Doesn't 'bother' me either way at all :)

Again, why?

Then it's not 'crap' is it? it's something you don't understand properly.

I find it crap for me. I know people have found it useful. However, I am concerned that some people are too reliant on and are in therapy for many years. That was the point of the thread. Not for people to pick on me or others.

I don't see what the issue is though. If someone finds putting lemons in their socks in the morning helps their concentration at work, why is it an issue if it works? If someone is reliant on therapy and it is not helping then I agree it's not a good thing. But if they go every week or month and it actually helps them.... Fine. It wouldn't help you, fair enough, you can find your own thing, which wouldn't work for another and so forth.

Maybe the things that damaged their psyche/mind went on for many years and started very early and caused a lot of damage that needs careful, patient and compassionate attention. And then maybe they had things happen in their lives during the course of therapy that were very difficult and needed help. And maybe they made a healthy choice and commitment to deal thoroughly with what causes them distress. Maybe they have a lot of painful dependency, attachment and avoidance issues to work with in a safe, boundaried relationship. That is their choice, and if it isn't perfect, that's something they need to face, and probably are - it's not something anyone, not even you, need to try and fix.
We are adults, we can make responsible choices and decisions about our own lives and needs.

My concern is that people are investing so much time and becoming reliant on a therapist without it really being of benefit and in some circumstances it can be damaging.

Can someone explain the dig about my signature?

I CBA going to find the quote you made coz im on an iPad and I can't work it prop. But you said something about not having faith in things that they don't believe in and so forth or something of that sort andir was just amusing that you have a bible quote which is basically the same thing, faith in something that can't be proven.

Anyway.

Yes, if damaging I agree it's not good. But if it helps, which is does most of the time, it's not a problem. It makes jobs, gives families money, helps people who are Ill. Yeah. I had another point but I forget.

I don't recollect such a post.

That post