never been hospitalised or sectioned
 

I hadn't thought that the list thread would stir up stuff for me. But it clearly has.

I'm nearly 40, and have complex mental health issues, and have been in treatment for just over 7 years, although the symptoms have been present in one form or another much of my life.
I've never been hospitalised or sectioned, despite at times being quite severely ill, and noticeably so in public [and ridiculed by members of the public for it.]

Maybe it's because of the level of [private, not NHS] support that I do have. Both professionally via my therapist and homeopath and the level of welfare support I have at work. As well as my GP - who is, of course, NHS, but the only NHS provider in my team.
And because I know that a hospital environment is the last thing I need when I'm in my own kind of crisis state. My support team know this too.
Maybe it's also because I've never self harmed 'badly'.

But I see people here way younger than me getting sections, and being in hospital for long periods. And I feel, what, jealous?
In my adult state of thinking, state of mind, personality state, I have no desire for hospital at all, at least not NHS style!
But I want to make it clear that the fact I've never been in hospital for my mental illness doesn't mean I am less seriously ill.

As always, my saving grace is my level of insight into my condition, I guess. It doesn't mean I struggle less, but I do have more responsibility.

I've never been on more than 2 medications at a time, and one of those two being a prn. I was for a time on two anti-depressants. But my treatment plan is for minimum medication. I am happy being minimally medicated. But so many people here are on many medications and have multiple official diagnoses. I just have the one - depression plus other complex symptoms caused by my past.

I just wanted to speak up for myself, and people like me.
It seems important.

Anyone else in a similar situation? What do you think/feel?

Katie,

I don't think I can say anything particularly useful - other than it's completely understandable that you feel this way and you're definitely not alone in it.

Hospital is horrible, I can't imagine what it would be like to have to be there repeatedly or for long periods. But I understand the need to have your feelings - and your illness - taken seriously.

All I can say is that you are one of the people on RYL that I look up to the most. You've been through so much, and you have a lot to deal with on a daily basis, and the fact that you have so much insight and have managed to learn to cope so well without being hospitalised / sectioned is amazing.

I actually do understand where you're coming from. Being surrounded [here] by so many people with such serious problems, it does have the tendency to make you feel bad, or like your problems aren't important. I sometimes feel like because I don't have such severe issues, my pain can't be important, and I want someone to recognise how much I'm hurting.

Just please know that I / RYL in general doesn't think of you that way. I / we really do recognise how much you've been through and how complex it all is to work through. And you're doing an incredible job.

Take care of yourself xx

i can't say it better than void. sometimes i feel like because i've never been hospitalised, i've not been taken seriously, because i see other people on RYL beign treated differently by those in charge of their care. or something like that, though not nearly so coherent in my head! but i know, like you, that it's because of the support i've got outside of hospital, and also the efforts we make (not that thos ewho are hospitalised aren't making an effort of course. not making much sense am i?) that have kept us out. for me it's mostly been my parents, and i am grateful to them for that. hospital may be helpful but it seems for a lot of people it creates new problems too.

i really respect you and the strength you have. thank you too for voicing some of the things i have felt.

xxx

Hi Katie. I pretty much agree with what void said.

Sometimes I feel the same even though I've been in hospital 3 times. I've never been sectioned though. But it does seem like "the more sections you have, the worse you are". Which like you said, is not true. The whole purpose in treatment, is to recover or make the symptoms easier to manage. I dont think hospital does that, it's seen as more of a short term treatment who'se primary focus is to keep you and/or other people from harm. Well thats been the case with me.

A point you raised is that you have private care. Which is generally better, so maybe you've able to get help/intervention quicker?

I also think, that in a lot of cases medication can just mask the symptoms and not deal with the cause. Maybe thats what some people want (I know i do) but the fact you have delved much deeper into the roots of your PTSD/depression shows strength and courage.

Not sure if any of this helps x

Hey,

Often when people are hospitalised it is just them begining to get support set up or is for a short period to keep them 'safe' while in crisis as their support team do not feel able to do so or they don't think those around them can help.

On RYL there is many people who 'brag' about the amount of meds, hospitalisations, diagnosis - to the extent a competitive atmosphere appears. As much as we try to ignore this fact it is true. Also it is an internet forum, we cannot take what people say here as fact all the time.

You have problems, which have affected you the majority of your life, you have a right to your support, and it doesn't mean you are 'less ill' or don't deserve the help you are recieving.

Hospitals like you said are a bad environment for people, and now with the years of deinstitutionalisation professionals have learned that hospital can often be a worsening place for many. That is why often (on adult wards - acute NHS ones) most patients are schizophrenic or bipolar, and are getting meds regulated to deal with a difficult episode.

Being sectioned when someone is suicidal - though potentially necessary, can be bad for that person which can lead to them being in and out and not getting any where. Though can also help set up a treatment plan - once that is done, keeping the person out of hospital is a priority then working on issues surrounding there illness.

Also I want to add - something I have learnt from reading - mild depression can be longer lasting, even more likely to become chronic that major depression. And thus need more treatment and support. Just there is less 'crisis' surrounding it. (sorry thas just a side note to say it isn't always the extreams which determine how debilitating the illness is over a life span.

You are a special, caring, intelligent person. You know that hospital doesn't determine how ill someone is. You know that they can be an awful environment. Just remember to keep that in mind.

You deserve the help and the support you get as you give so much out.

Sorry don't know if this makes sence.

Take care,

Devil x

I can understand where you're coming from what with feeling jealous and maybe feeling that other people's problems have been validated more than yours. But what if they were / are more ill than you've ever been? Which they probably have been an are, it's really not something healthy to be envying. Honestly.
I think you're lucky to have had such a decent level of support that you've gotten quite ill yet still managed to stay in the community.
I was inpatient for three whole years from aged 14 - 17, developmental years as I'm sure you know they are so it's more than likely had a lasting negative impact on me an the way I function at least socially at age 24 which I am now so I guess it's struck a chord that you're 'jealous' of this kind of thing because if I could go back and live my life normally and carried on at school and gone onto Uni etc as I would have instead of taken 3 measly GCSE's in hospital I would.
Plus. You're not the only person who will have been effected by the hospital list thread.
Personally I think people should just get over it.

I personally don't necessarily think it's about being more ill, rather what treatment is appropriate. For example Katie I know you struggle with anxiety, acute wards are such noisy, unpredictable environments that it can make anxieties worse, rather than providing respite.
I also think it's a lot about personal responsibility and maturity aswell (though obviously in cases of psychosis things are a little different). I think a lot of more immature people end up in hospital because they don't have the maturity to try and engage with services properly and actively fight against their treatment. I think the fact that you have never been hospitalised shows your willingness to work for recovery and that you have the inner resources, coupled with your strong support network which enables you to fight through some really dark times whilst remaining in the community.

I actually agree with what heidi said as well. From personal experience during my first major psychotic episode I got put in the adolecense ward. I had no idea what was happening or how to deal with it. 2 years later I still struggle but have developed some ways to deal with it (kind of) .. so yea. x

I think it's a good thing you've never been hospitalised. It shows that even at your lowest times you've had the skills to cope.

For some people being sectioned is like a badge of honour, and I'll be honest, I felt that way for a while. It felt like I'd finally achieved something by being sectioned, that I was officially ill. But slowly I've realised that being in hosptial doesnt achieve anything, in fact my last admission made me worse. It's far more helpful to learn to deal with things in the community, because you cant be admitted every time you have a suicidal thought, you need to learn to deal with things in the real world which is what you have been doing.

Heidi, I would have to disagree that a lot of more immature people end up in hospitals. Sometimes people try their hardest and work hard with their therapist and psychiatrist, ask for help and give input into their treatment and try very hard to stay out of hospitals, but still reach a level of instability and feel unsafe. Being mature doesn't mean you can't break down.

Katie - I think it is easy to fall into a competition mindset, especially here on RYL. But what other people have done, been through, or where they have been does not minimize in any way your struggle or your accomplishments. As many have said, it's a good thing you've never been hospitalized, it makes it easier to not rely on it, and also you don't really get to implement the coping devices you lean into your daily life because you're stuck there in an unfamiliar environment.

I think it's because of the views of mental health teams and psychiatrists that encourage people to consider being hospitalized as validation of how severe their difficulties are. I know that after I was inpatient doctors took me SO much more seriously than before I'd been in hospital, which is awful, but it can't help make you think that just because you've been in hospital you've reached a 'new level' of illness and distress that might actually match how unstable you feel in yourself. In doing this patients are going to compare themselves in the same way.

When actually how ill you isn't validated by the level of care you're receiving. I think I've said this before but from my point of view mental health problems are very much about validating any pain that wasn't validated/dealt with properly when first experienced at the time so anything that does this effectively, even if it's a label or the experience of being in hospital, can be mistaken by the patient as important.

Hey Katie,
I think its a great thing that you havent had to be hospitilised!
I can tell you now i have no desire to be in hospital and on sections but when i was younger, i couldnt have cared less.
I was sectioned and in hospital numerous times and messed around while in there. I did do some positive work but alot of the time, i didnt want the help and i was immature. Looking back now, i would have done things differently but now, i know what life is like outside of those four walls and i wouldnt want to give this up.
I think hospital is a good way to hide from your problems and it shows courage and strength to recover and survive at home.
But i can understand feeling jealous, i did when i left hospital, i felt alone and lost and wanted to go back but its not the way to live. Now, 5 years since i left my last hospital, i hope to god i never go back to one of those places.
I think you are a real inspiration and those that are in hospital now can see that it is possible to manage at home.
I'm sorry if this is a bit of a ramble, im a little tired! haha.
Take care xxx

This was what i was trying to say :)

Katie, I think what you need to take from this thread is that people recognise that you are ill and struggle alot but that you have the strength and support in place. It doesn't mean you are any less ill just because you haven't been in hospital, section or otherwise.

Yes, I have been in hospital both section (when I was not even particularly ill and thankfully managed to get discharged fairly quickly) and informal (for longer periods) but I have no intention of going back. Yes, it kept me safe when I was extremely unsafe and at the depths but at the end of the last admission when I was getting better, I saw people in there with my illness who are in there with bpd and have been in there months and months and how it has somehow taken away their own coping methods and made them institutionalised, their behaviour is accepted when it should not be, it should be challenged. Yes, in a way, they were immature despite being much older than me. Sorry, rambling. I had a mixed experience in hospital but now I am more stable, the hard work has really started and it would be so easy to give in and let myself go but I want to be able to be like you, work, have maturity and insight and move on from my mh illnesses. It is something you should be proud of.

I think alot of it depends on the support around you from the nhs. I dont know but it seems in order to get help from them you have to be either really ill or suicidal otherwise they give you as little help as possible - at least in my experiance. So if you dont have alot of people helping you, then people cant see how bad things are or what kind of help you really need, you have to decide that yourself.

void. Thank you for understanding, it means a lot.
I take my illness seriously, I take myself seriously. So do the professionals in my care. As also do many here. But the general culture of marginalising the less dramatic or flagrantly destructive, the less 'popular', online here and also on other forums. That's what I'm facing here, that I feel up against.
Thank you for that. I agree. Oftentimes, when my Other self has been forefront, my behaviour has indeed been sectionable, had the wrong people been around at the wrong time.
My treatment team trust me to work things through, and I value their trust.
It's hard though. When I was most ill I was supply teaching in inner London. How did I keep going? Well, I had 'practice' from suppressing the pain of years of bullying. Of going into school every day, despite it being akin to entering a war zone. I dissociated, see. The cost of exposure was too great. I was also virtually mute right into my teens.
I think also what I do have are a whole package of coping skills developed over the years, that I'm now starting to be able to properly apply.

tamobhuuta You are making sense to me. It's a complex picture, with many intertwining factors, and no one being the same.
I'm glad I could put into words some of the things you feel. And thank you for your respect, both you and void., it means so much to me.

Ami That does help, thank you. :) For me, delving deep is the only thing I can do. I wouldn't consider even the possibility of doing it another way. It is the only way for me. It's like along with the traumas and illness and abuse, a higher power also gave me the gifts to grow forward and through it with understanding, insight and compassion.

Devil Girl I agree. I've suffered suicidal thoughts many times, but have made it through. I think that's one of the 'advantages' of having splits in my psyche. Along with a very unwell part, I also have a healthy and life affirming part. Part of the aim of my therapy is to build a bridge between the two so that I can support myself more effectively.
I agree with you about the extremes. My medical diagnosis, for what it's worth, is 'Recurrent Depressive Disorder', or 'long standing treatment resistant depression'. Which is basically an undercurrent of ongoing low mood and all the rest of the bundle, along with periods of depression of more severity. But anxiety has always been far more of a struggle for me than the classic depression element. Although self hatred and shame pervades pretty much all of my 'pathology'.
Thank you so much for your support. And it makes total sense.

Ram. You too are worth help and support, really you are. I guess it's a matter of access and resources.

Catherine Thank you for your honesty, and for reflecting more on what you'd first written. It's hard, I know, when personal feelings colour perceptions, and how that can potentially miss the heart of what the other person is saying. I hear how much of your crucial development years were lost to hospitalisation for mental illness. You must have missed so much, family, regular friendships. Yet you had the support that they assessed as necessary for you.
Not to compare, but to expand perspective, during those years of my life I also missed so much. Not because of hospitalisation, but due to abuse, bullying and emotional neglect, and lack of social interaction - pretty much enforced isolation.
It's hard to appreciate a community that one has always been outcast from. Now though things are changing, and I'm becoming more connected with life.
You could also make a thread for issues from that list thread that have been stirred up for you. You also have the right to the space to speak up and explore about how you feel.

Heidi Thank you so much. I agree in many respects. And thank you for recognising my struggles. Yes, anxiety is a major part of my struggle. Only a few weeks ago I couldn't sit in my GP's waiting room around people. A little boy kept coming over and staring at me. I stood on the stairs facing the wall, hiding from him [I was in a dissociated type state at the time] and he continued to stare at me and follow me. I couldn't cope with that, so asked to wait outside and be called when my turn came. I stood in the driveway leaning up against the wall crying. I think they then fast-tracked me through. I'm not always like that, but that state is very close to the surface much of the time.

Sarah Thank you for recognising my ability to cope. I personally think illness and how we cope with it are two different aspects of this. Maybe the distinction is that one can make it through in the community even whilst very ill, as long as one has the skills to manage that illness or to, as my therapist puts it 'bear with it'.
The point I'm making is that I don't want to be in hospital. Rather that I feel that many of us who've not been can be easily sidelined as we don't have the 'drama' factor.

Facet Thank you.

when.will.it.end
I agree. Totally. Especially the part I've italicised.

Also, when I was a child, 9 or so years old, my father threatened with putting me in a strait jacket and having me sent away. This memory filters *all this* for me, and brings up a lot of sadness and other conflicting feelings. Because, as usual, I'm multi-layered, and I have a child state just wanting to be taken care of 24/7, an abusive protector that is, well, exceedingly mentally ill, to put it one way, and me who's keeping a hold of it all and ensuring I function somehow.

Everyone else, you were replying while I was typing my essay up there! I'll come back and reply to your posts either later this evening or tomorrow. :)

I have been in hospital both on sections and informal but i think it is so great that you have never been in one! it shows strenght that i did not have (when i was so against living) and you should be very proud of that.

I dont think that people who end up in hospital are nesecarrily immature though because if you go informal it can show you see that you need help and are willing to accept it and i think that too can be a very brave thing to do especially if you hate going in and it scares you.

I have not been hospitalised, not for anything psychological anyway. CLosest I've come was a few years ago when I ended up in a hospital due to my weight, but that was a medical hospital and al they did was keep me there until my weight increased :ermm:
Been in hospital a fair few times for physical things that were caused by the psychological issues, but never been in for anything psychological dirrectly

But I don't really have therapy or anything right now... and at times do kind of get jellious or feel like as I don't have the same degree of treatment as others that somehow I am unworthy of it, or of even being here...


But I think alot of the time it's not a matter of how bad or ill someone is but how well they are coping and what is seen as being best for them that determines their treatment or hospitalisation. The fact that you have not been hospitalised just shows that people recognise your strength and ability to cope

Sums it up very aptly

I never saw being in hospital as a badge of honour... it was my lowest time ever and everyone I know knew about it, cos you can't really hide a long admission.

I can see it was necessary, but I never aspired or wanted to be in hospital, it was just where I needed to be then.

I can see your point about how it seems to be a bit of a competition as to how many diagnoses, sections, meds you've been on etc (although that thought makes me despair)

but - you have managed to stay out of hospital, you have a treatment team, you are actively engaging with the support you are receiving, I think that says a lot about your inner resources and really, good on you. It certainly doesn't invalidate your experiences or your suffering.

There are not just two options of either being totally fine or being hospitalised. There is an awful lot in between. :)

Yeah I have been hospitalized but I certainly don't see it as making me more ill or less ill. I personally think most of them were just me overreacting and admitting myself out of fear. I think it's good you haven't been in the hospital, it shows you have learned to cope with your pain. That doesn't mean the pain is not there. It just means you have some good strategies like outpatient support to keep you from inpatient. and believe me, hospital is not fun. They many times treat you horrible, even though I've always been voluntary. And it goes on your record, your job finds out as you're away, and all sorts of stuff.

I think it's fantastic that you've never been hospitalised, it really shows a lot of courage and inner strength that I'm sure many of us would like to have. Personally I believe the admissions I had when I was a bit younger for depression/self harm stuff, before psychosis made hospital unavoidable, would have been avoidable had I been a little maturer, been a bit more of a fighter and engaged in therapy better. Sometimes I do sense a bit of competition on RYL, but honestly, for me feeling 'inferior' for never being sectioned is easier to deal with than causing myself more harm and getting sectioned, hospitals are horrible places at the best of times!

Katie, I can really relate to this. I struggle with feeling like my problems are not as legitimate as other people's because I've *only* been diagnosed with depression or because I've *only* been emotionally abused.

And part of me knows that's ridiculous - only depression? only emotional abuse? There's no "only" about it! Looking at another person with those same issues, I'd never deny the seriousness of them. I know how much they can affect a person's life!

Yet, I still feel like my problems are less legitimate, less real. Like I'm exaggerating and somebody's going to see right through me and tell me I'm just being dramatic and to get over it. I guess those fears probably stem from back in high school when I wasn't taken seriously.

It's like my problems were invalidated so much that now I crave that validation. I need to know that someone takes me seriously. That my problems are legitimate, and I'm not just making it all up.

But it seems like no matter how much validation I get, it's never enough. I'm still afraid someone's going to turn around and accuse me of making it all up. So I can understand the wanting a label or wanting to be hospitalized as proof that things really are that bad.

(Crazy thing is, I have been hospitalized, and still feel like I need proof...)

Wow.
I don't think that hospital admission is anything to be proud of, at all. I think that it can actually be a dangerous thing, making people iller, removing all responsibility.

I know that when I have been in hospital, I've found it very hard to adjust to being back in the "real world" even only after a couple of days, because everything just seems so so difficult, you don't have people there all the time to do things for you. So I want to echo everyone else and say that it's a great reflection on your strength that you've avoided hospital, and if anything it shows that your struggles have been as hard, if not harder than those who have been admitted.

I have had points, and to some extent am in the situation now, where I want to be in hospital, I want someone to take over the responsibility of making me okay, making sure I don't do anything stupid. It's not because I think it's "cool" or it is something that I "should" be doing to get my struggles vindicated to an extent, it's because, as horrible as it may be, it's easier than facing up to stuff, as I say "in the real world".

Wow! Thank you so much everyone. I wasn't expecting so much support. How can I begin to do justice to your kindness and respect in my reply?

Excuse me for choosing one reply to quote for now - I'll come back later and respond in more depth to everyone. Irene -


It is so much work to stay afloat. It is a struggle a lot of the time. Being in public, around people, is especially hard for me. Back last Summer I couldn't bear anyone even slightly looking at me, it felt they were staring at me, and I felt way too exposed and vulnerable and frightened and behaved in a way from this that incited people to stare at me more, and laugh at me. Thankfully my homeopath found a remedy that helped ease this. But even when it was at it's peak, I somehow managed to keep going to work every day and do my food shopping. It was torturous though.

E_Pluribus I don't think you're understanding. It's NOT an attention thing, really it isn't. I couldn't bear the scrutiny or exposure of a hospital admission. It would actually make me more ill, not less. Nor is hospital admission an accurate guide to 'sickness', really, at least as far as I understand it, and as some people above have said.
Sure, some people are more ill [whatever that means], and may need more sedation and being watched and restrained etc. Some people have less internal locus of control for psychosis symptoms, less insight, maybe, less support in their immediate environment, less coping skills, less options. If I'd been living alone at the peak of my breakdown, for example, who knows what would have happened?

What I don't fully understand is how so many young people here have had hospitalisations. Maybe it's not jealousy as such [although part of my personality feels that way, it is not all of me, and I feel misunderstood that it might be seen so.] but more confusion. In my awareness professionals work extremely hard to keep people out of hospital.

I don't see anyone else as I go about my day to day life struggle like me in public. Are they all in hospital? Overly sedated? Hiding away at home? Have those who're hospitalised ever experienced such raw sense of shame and exposure around people? Do people who're in hospital hate themselves more, or less?

Many times I've had random strangers tell me I shouldn't be out, that I should be locked up in hospital. I will fight against this. I don't want to be in hospital. I would hate it. Conflicted? Yes. I know that.

All I want to do is to feel safe in the world.

Alot of mental health probelms are serious and considered serious. However when it comes to hospitilazation it depends on alot of factors and not just how ill someone is, its not as easy, and is the last option for many people. Its not a way to show that someone is more ill than you are.

Its not about getting attention and recognition, its about getting the help you need and the halp that is available to you.

... And using the help available to you to the best of your ability.

Thanks Mari.

The below is a reply to the above, and also elements of what others have said in posts above that. Sorry I'm not replying individually at this stage.

And, you see, the thing is, even if there is an element of needing care and attention, it is rooted in deep emotional neglects and lack of proper attention during all my growing up years. It's not something that is helpful to have pitied or shamed.

It is perhaps 'easy' for that ache to get translated by the vulnerable part of me into wanting hospital. I see how that is twisted.

And it is key that my father threatened prolonged psychiatric incarceration for me when I was very young. He projected his own 'poisons' into me, which added onto my own vulnerabilities.

But I, Katie, don't want to be hospitalised. In fact am deeply phobic about it. The rest of me is somewhat conflicted, and it's helpful for me to talk about it here and get perspective.

I think a lot of misunderstanding can come from confusing illness and vulnerability, emotional fragility?

I think maybe its the fact you see hospital as a way of getting support you cannot get outside of that, or that its a place where you can be complelty safe without the temptations of the outside would. Its a plce where you have no choice but to face your illness and get better, where as if you are not in hospital, you dont have to face it unless you go to therapy, unless you want to, its not forced, you dont have to face it.

if that makes sense.

That makes sense, Mari.

For me though, 'outside', I have no choice but to face it. It's evident when I come in contact with anyone, in my 'shrinking and screaming and longing' at times when it's most intense. There's no escape. At least 'outside' I have some degree of choice and freedom - in hospital people's presence would be forced upon me and they'd be no place to hide when I needed to retreat from the exposure for a while.
The skin on my face is so raw you see, emotionally. It carries so many scars and hurts and pains.

I live with the conflict of aching for caring and contact, even from strangers [think lost little girl looking for everyone to be mummy], and fleeing it desperately because my projected self hatred screams through their eyes and attacks me and leaves me desolate.

The bottom line is that when I feel acutely vulnerable and frightened I really need protection from the harshness of the world and insensitivity of some people who don't understand emotional distress.
I think protection is key, rather than recognition or attention.
When I am ill I need positive attention, but my illness brings me negative attention.
Protection is something I never had in the right way whilst growing up.

But I know enough to know that hospital wouldn't provide that. But in that state of mind I have no other concept of what might be protection. In my steady, healthy state of mind I do. I have distorted ideas about protection, which I'm working to heal.

I also know that the only way to really heal and live is to be out here, in the world. It's hard. Sometimes it's practically unbearable - imagine what it's like when nowhere and noone feels safe, and where every look in my direction cuts so deep that I flee inside and attack back.
I am getting better.

How can we even define levels of illness? It's so subjective.

And yes, believe me it feels ... confusing ... when I see young people who have boyfriends, who have a wide social life and far more social confidence than I do, these people getting admitted to hospital. I don't want to be admitted. But do you see how that looks to that part of me? I'm nearly 40. I've never had a relationship, never had sex, never been to a club, don't have a circle of real life friends.

I struggle to be in the world.
That's what I need people to hear.
And I really appreciate that it is heard by many here.

I dont really know what to say but Im reading/listening to you.

*squishes* xxx

i dont think you can define levels of illness.
my view on the young people being hospitalised (from personal experience) is that they are too young and immature to 'cope' on the outside.
I mean, if i had tried, i could have coped and probably been better if i had stayed home but at the time i didnt want help, i didnt think of consequences, i didnt care. i would be in and out of general hospital each week and in the end psychiatric care was all that could keep me from doing that. but it was immaturity, it wasnt that i was 'extremely ill'...i was ill but not terribly.
Now i can sit and think about consequences of my actions, think of other people and find other coping measures other than self destructive methods that landed me where i was before. I still struggle with all those behaviours but cope alot better.
I dont know if this makes sense?

I think young people will look back and have regrets about the sections and fighting against people who are trying to help.
I certainly do, even though i took a positive thing away from each admission i wish i had never wasted so much of my teenage life in hospital.

So i dont think hospital can define peoples level of illness.

but i do think people that havent been in hospital and suffer with such complex problems such as yourself are so inspirational. I know you struggle so much but you are still here and you still battle through each problem as it arises.

I think so many young people have been in the hospital either because they have met overzealous professionals who think hospital is the way to stop mental illness. Or the fact that the world has changed and many teenagers have seen suicide as almost normal and so they become more and more determined to do it no matter what anyone says, making hospital the only possible resort to keep them from dying or seriously harming themselves.

It's that the stigma isn't as much there as it was twenty years ago (it is, but there are circles of friends who accept mental illness almost as cool whereas that didn't really exist before), so I think young people are more comfortable really hurting themselves. That's not to say their problems aren't serious, but I think they have less restraint since it's more accepted in some subcultures, so they are in need of more desperate measures. so they are probably ill, but they probably wouldn't have actually acted on it quite as much had it not been for society.

And it can become a competition thing among teens who feel they have nothing else. I don't judge people for that, it's just an unfortunate turn of young society. It also could be a form of rebellion. Teens are naturally prone to rebel against their parents/authority, and so acting out on suicidal thoughts rather than seeking help can be a form of rebellion. I am NOT saying this is the case with all teens/young adults, but I think it might explain your question as to why so many young people have been through intensive treatments.

i think it is brilliant that you have stayed at home. staying in the real world must really help you deal with your illness, and help your recovery. hospitals never really help anyone, they just artifically keep people safe while they can't do it for themselves.
i think it also shows the gap between the care that the private sector provides and the nhs.
well done!

Agrees

Thanks so much everyone.
I'll reply properly tomorrow.

I just want you to know that I'm reading.
*offers hugs*

Thank you both.
I'll get back to this after work. [Yes, I'm going to work. I'm tired, stressed, and likely to cry or panic if something or someone upsets me, but work is kind of therapeutic for me. Rather like a therapeutic community type experience, I would think, at least in my attitude.]

One thing I've been pondering. A lot of hospitalisations seem to be from severe self harm or severe eating disordered behaviour. This is naturally something which would be highlighted on a self harm support site.

However severity of self harming isn't really a reliable indicator of severity of mental illness. It's one indicator.
But then what about feeling unsafe in the world, extreme despair that doesn't lead to suicidal behaviour, but more insidious dangerous acts? What about feeling persecuted, severe paranoia which isn't flagrantly psychotic, but is more borne of trauma and extreme hyper-vigilance? What about being so vulnerable and sensitive that every sound, every vibration, grates on the very core of your skin? What about when you feel that you have no skin? What about not being able to bear the close proximity of strangers, without fight-flight-or freezing? What about feeling so alone and feeling so out of control it feels unbearable?

It seems that maybe one 'flavour' of illness leads to hospitalisation, and other 'flavours' don't. Not because they're less severe, but because the attacks on the person and other people are less, well, obvious.

I'll add more later, and reply properly to people's responses.

I think that is because hospitalisation is often used as a way to keep a person safe/alive, perhaps while working on some issues, so it's more likely to happen if a person is viewed as in physical danger. I've also heard of it being used when a person has some particularly destressing therapy (i.e. abuse memories) to do, but once again to keep the person safe/alive physically dueing the destress rather than to increase the psychological treatment

i know most admissions are for severe selfharm or eating disorders but i do know some people who were admitted for some of those reasons you mentioned. not many though. i think that doctors find it hard to notice extreme emotional despair without physical symptoms such as selfharm and/or eating disorders which is why so many people go unnoticed.

Like when i go to my therapist, even when im feeling so desperate, she doesnt notice because physically i appear ok.

I hope you feel better and im glad work helps you *hugs*
xxx

I'm wondering if this doesn't reflect the bias towards the more physical types of abuse being more severe than more emotional/psychological abuse with minimal physical self harm?
I get about being in physical danger to self or others needing inpatient care.
Being unsafe v. 'only' feeling unsafe due to being unsafe in the past.
I recognise how hospital is inappropriate for the latter in most cases, as medical care isn't necessary really. The level of supervision just isn't needed and it would be a waste of money and resources etc.
However the level of emotional distress and need for reassurance of safety might not be all that different.

I know I have a good support network. But for those with similar struggles to my own - like I get on very bad days. What options are there? Is this really a case for more widely available respite type houses, where there's privacy, safe companionship if wanted, and available support parts of the day? Even just to stay in overnight, like a kind of supportive b and b?!

I think that particular bias is more a culturally engrained one than actually being part of the "system" as it were... I think people can understand and relate to damge that they can see better than damage that they can not

I would just like to point out that the most rescent research into DID shows that sexual abuse is not as important as previously thought. There is now a list of 10 things that most with DID have in common and only one of them is remotely sexual. On top of that 2% of people with DID suffered no abuse at all


there have been many reported cases of people suffering all the symptoms of PTSD from birth trauma. There was also a case not long ago of a woman who's first alter deveoloped noenatally!


Also, emotional abuse is serious, it's just as serious as other forms of abuse. I have been through emotional, sexual and physical abuse, and I often think that the emotional did the most damage

they generally don't like hospitalsing self-hamers fOr two reason. Firstly in Australia (in particuly South Australia) the Mental Health system is under funded. Secondly hospitalising self-harmers generally doesn't help ; and if you have B.P.D insutuionlising someone is generally considered Damaging - they dont like rewarding people for self-harm. i used to spend alotof time in hospital, untill i turned 18. Now im a adult they dont put me in psych wards anymore. They just treat me mediclly and send me home. Usully with no follow up.

Oh yeah finally , being in hospital only made me worse not better.

Take care :-)

one other thing to E_pluribus_unum; your post seems to imply that anyone who has not been hospitalised is automaticatally not as bad off as someone who has been hospitalised.
I don't think that is right. People can go through EXACTLY the same experiances or EXACTLY the same diagnosis and deal with it differently.

This whole post makes me feel a little insecure, angry? Something, I'm not quite sure what. But I can see why that is and why it is tainted by my own experiences. I don't know where I count myself. I see myself as the one in the middle. I spent my teenage years in and out of units quite severely (but I don't know if I ever believed I was ill 'enough') and it has really messed me up. It's probably the number 1 thing on my mind a lot of the time even though I was discharged last in the summer, so this thread stirs up a lot of emotion. I think you said jealous wasn't the right word? But I feel like I have not 'made' myself, but that hospital has affected so much of my life that it has in effect 'made' a lot of me. I'm angry at that. At the hospital and at myself for letting myself go through that. But confused too - as I have genuinely had some of the best times of my life their which is really confusing and... wrong? :(

Just like, I expect, you have experienced personal positive parts of you, Katie, through your therapy which I must admit I am in a way jealous of.

I think, Katie, nobody can say your feelings aren't valid. And nobody can say you don't feel what you feel, or don't experience what you experience. And I don't mean this in a wishy-washy sense, I just can't get my words out right today it seems.
I just wanted to point this out as I think it is true. Though I hate, just me, that in this world there has to be 'levels' of illness. It causes so much trouble.

I might come back to this. And I hope your work went ok today, Katie, I admire your strength for going in, well done!

x

What can I say?

I've never said I have DID. That I'm on the continuum, sure, as many people are who've had troubled pasts in one form or another. I freely admit that I am diagnosed with depression, and other complexities as a result of my past.

I'm simply trying to understand all aspects, and relate them in a way that is compassionate to myself and others.

I just, well, what can I say?
I am listening, but I don't have to agree with everything.

I don't have a lot of ego strength. Meditation practices brought on psychosis. I am stronger now than I was several years ago. Because of therapy. Yes, I am open and honest with all my treatment team. But I never used to be this vocal, I was virtually mute until my late teens. I am more vocal online than I am in person, and find being in public torturous.

Life isn't about extremes or comparison.

And bear in mind that, although not all may believe I have split off selves, I do have inner conflicts, and my thinking in this thread doesn't all necessarily come from my adult compassionate self, who does have empathy. Even if part of me does not.

It's natural to make generalisations as one tries to understand, that's all. It's not an attack on anyone. I mean no harm. I do have a heart, although some may not think so.

Thanks Heidi, and everyone else, for your support.

I have to get back to work now.
I'm upset, but I'll handle it.