constructive comments please

[PassedExpectations]

ok, this thread is for civil discussion of what things people would like to see change about ryl. two rules.

#1 stay civil. think and calm down before you respond. try to read or respond to two other threads in between reading what has been said here and replying to it (to give yourself time so that you aren't responding when you're super emotionally charged)

#2 every criticism you give, every thing you say you want changed MUST be accompanied by an idea of how we could accomplish that change

have at it.

[talaiporia]

Great idea Katie. :)

I have no suggestions right now, but I'm sure some others do.

[offlineforever]

I don't actually understand the point of this thread. When you say change, what exactly do you mean?

[PassedExpectations]

like, clearly from reading other threads, people are unhappy, discontented, frustrated, angry, put out, etc by how some things are on this site. my hope is that people will express that in a way that is appropriate and propose ideas of how to make it better, so that it isn't just complaining without getting anything done.

and i'm sorry, i'm pretty sure i'm not explaining myself clearly, i'll keep trying.

for instance. if someone is feeling upset because they feel left out from a clique, they could say that, but then give an idea of how to make things less cliquey, like that we could do an RYL member scavenger hunt by each day challenging people who want to play to find someone new (like, "todays challenge is to find someone who has a pet lizard") to encourage people to break out from the social groups they're comfortable with. (and this is an idea off the top of my head, so it isn't fully formed and might be totally stupid. i'm just trying to find an example)

[offlineforever]

Thanks Katie, that makes more sense to me now!

[Shenanigans]

I appreciate the idea of this thread.
However, from reading the thread this idea originated from I doubt anything constructive will come of it.
The basic arguments ther were: what people constituted as "rudeness" (which is subjective) and, as you mentioned, the "friendship groups" in and around RYL (which is something people always complain about with RYL, numerous times every year.)
Sometimes people become keyboard warriors and forums such as this are easy places to do that.
Logically speaking, any constructive changes to RYL are not really feasible with its current situation (overstretched and limited mods, lack of a present webmaster etc.)

[PassedExpectations]

i think that something constructive can from this if we can make bottom up change, from the users, rather that top down change from mods, supporters, etc.... maybe part of what would help this happen is to motivate people to be an active part of what happens on this site and aware of what sort of community they are creating... i might be overly optimistic, but i don't think pessimism will help...

[Shenanigans]

That's a very good point and I hope to see this discussion go that way. Thank you.

[GlitterTrashDoll]

I don't have much to suggest but there are things I don't like about the site but before I comment properly, I'll have a think and see if I can pinpoint things and come up with something productive.

I also wanted to say, although Harley isn't posting much he has been on a hell of a lot more as of late (every 2 or 3 days at least since Christmas).

[Shenanigans]

^ That is something I'm really glad to hear and I hadn't noticed. Thanks :)

[squirrelspit]

This thread is made a couple of times a year. It goes around in circles. Nothing gets decided and then it dies, only to be made months down the line.

[Crysainta]

I don't think this thread will end up going anywhere, but kudos to you for trying to be helpful. I think generally people on RYL would be better off if they spent far less time on RYL. People get so emotionally invested in this website it is sick and twisted.

[griddlebone]

I don't think this thread will end up going anywhere, but kudos to you for trying to be helpful. I think generally people on RYL would be better off if they spent far less time on RYL. People get so emotionally invested in this website it is sick and twisted.

Agreed, revolving basically your whole life around this site is not good.x

[[Luna]]

This thread is made a couple of times a year. It goes around in circles. Nothing gets decided and then it dies, only to be made months down the line.

You're breaking rule #2 :nono:
I don't actually have anything constructive to add but I hope this thread can be used beneficially for the forum.

[squirrelspit]

Sorry Emma.

hmmm.. a solution.


There is a lot of room for cliches when using RYL.

Whilst constructive, well thought out, sound advice is not always exactly what the person wants to hear, it is often the most helpful advice.

'if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing' would go a long way, as would 'Treat others the way you would like to be treated'.
Also
'Theres no use flogging a dead horse' < in regards to those situations where a person has no interest in listening to good advice.

No one should expect for hundreds of mentally interesting strangers to get on and to all have the same opinions, beliefs, interests and sense of humour.


Finally.. if something bothers you so much.. theres an ignore function. Use it.

[squirrelspit]

^ blates just edited that a gajillion times.

[[Awakening]]

Charlie, you give excellent advice - as always!

I think it's a bit harsh to say that peoples emotional investment in RYL is sick and twisted, it may not be healthy but that's not for us to decide. Equally I think it is hard for us to judge whether someone's whole life revolves around this site.

I think Katie is just trying to give people the opportunity to air their grievances in a way that could be helpful to others as opposed to hurtful.

I personally have learnt things from the thread that this is in response to and feel that it would be nice to have been able to have those suggestions without having to skim through the 'issues'. For one, I have learnt that often when people appear to respond in a potentially inappropriate / rude manner, it may be because they themselves are struggling and don't feel able to ask for help. I will therefore attempt to see it in such a way, rather than assuming they are being rude. I will also try to think of ways to potentially offer them support, although I will most likely find this hard as I personally feel intimidated by seemingly rude remarks...

[Tig]

Well said Charlie. x

[griddlebone]

;3487902']Charlie, you give excellent advice - as always!

I think it's a bit harsh to say that peoples emotional investment in RYL is sick and twisted, it may not be healthy but that's not for us to decide. Equally I think it is hard for us to judge whether someone's whole life revolves around this site.



As someone whos been here for like....8 years (as has crys) its easy to tell! Its not a judgement....if you want to spend your life here thats your decision,but it isnt healthy....just like its not healthy to revolve your life around any one thing.

[Pi.R^2]

Wise words from Jocelyn, as ever.

I don't think it's sick and twisted to emotionally invest in this site. It's not as if these are random strangers on the internet. In my case, RYL is another place to chat to my friends and 'hang out'. (Gosh, 'hang out' is a horrid little phrase isn't it?.) These are my real life friends who I meet up with, one of whom I live with, others who visit a lot, others who live far away and who I only get to speak to online, mainly actually facebook and skype, not here.

It's an unconventional form of socialising but for someone who has to schedule socialising around a load of other stuff and who gets on surprisingly well with mental people, it's ideal.

Thankfully my life doesn't actually revolve around this site; it revolves around facebook, my girlfriend, buffets, organising gatherings and, of course, my own ego :p

Also, Charlie is wise.

[Crysainta]

Look at my join date. I speak from experience when it comes to the sick and twisted aspect of being too emotionally invested in RYL. There's a fine line, but even before you cross that line it is unhealthy. That isn't a judgment on anyone's character, but an observation of what it does to people. I come back to RYL for the familiarity of it and seeing people who know my personal issues without judging me. When I was modding here and when I was an active member, it really was sick. It can get into your soul and stop you from going out and being in the real world. Some people never have a problem with it but when I see people who have posts all over the place it concerns me. When someone posts thread upon thread, even if they are lighthearted threads, it suggests to me that they need to get out more, even if just to other websites.

[Crysainta]

I'm pretty sure people won't like what I have to say when they know it might apply to them. I said my piece. If anyone who has been here as long as I have, give or take a year or two, has a different perspective, I'd be interested in reading it.

[Unbreakable.]

There's a fine line, but even before you cross that line it is unhealthy.


Out of curiousity: where would you draw that line?

[[Luna]]

I have to say I'm curious about where the line is? How does one know if they are investing too much time in this site? (This isn't a dig, I am genuinely interested) x

[Pi.R^2]

^You'd have to make allowances for time spent simultaneously on this site and doing other things! I think such time should count as half :p

[griddlebone]

Look at my join date. I speak from experience when it comes to the sick and twisted aspect of being too emotionally invested in RYL. There's a fine line, but even before you cross that line it is unhealthy. That isn't a judgment on anyone's character, but an observation of what it does to people. I come back to RYL for the familiarity of it and seeing people who know my personal issues without judging me. When I was modding here and when I was an active member, it really was sick. It can get into your soul and stop you from going out and being in the real world. Some people never have a problem with it but when I see people who have posts all over the place it concerns me. When someone posts thread upon thread, even if they are lighthearted threads, it suggests to me that they need to get out more, even if just to other websites.

This is so true,actually makes me upset in relief that its not just me who feels like that,if that makes sense?x

[PassedExpectations]

so, maybe we need a thread where people can be encouraged to get outside of ryl, like a "what i did new today" thread or a "today i spoke to a stranger/acquaintance that _____" and people try to find someone in real life that they can fill in the blank in an interesting way (with the real life people remaining anonymous) or a "i challenge you to ____" thread where people then go do the challenge, write a quick bit about it, and then leave a task for the next person (tasks have to be appropriate etc)... i kind of think that if we could get these sort of threads going in fun and distractions, they could help people distract in real life and not just distract on the computer.

i am aware that probably most of what is suggested may not happen, especially because it is hard to judge what things people on the site as a whole will catch onto, but i don't think it is bad to throw things out and see what happens.

and i want to thank people for keeping this thread calm. i know these threads happen every few months, and i read them most times and they get much more heated. so kudos to everyone who has posted thoughtfully *hugs all*

[Snow White.]

I don't mean to be a negative nancy, but I suppose the problem with that is that with the thread still being here it's still bringing people back to the site for validation, when ideally they would build that up themselves and not need others here to praise it. I know that's easier said than done and a thread would be a good bridging gap, and would be super appropriate in fun and distractions as yes, being able to find real world skills for distractions is important.

But in the end I think it's just something people have to realise on their own, is their use of the site healthy? I know parts of mine are still not as I can get upset by conflict, even when not directly involving me, but I work on that by turning off the computer and, oh, conflict gone. (Not being a mod helps cause I don't have to care about it!). But it is possible to be both a member here and a member of real life and have that as okay.

Crys... I remember exactly what you are talking about.

Anyway, I was going out now so, er, I best do that.

[Snow White.]

Now I'm wondering what the hell I am still doing here 0_o

[PassedExpectations]

haha, i welcome people tempering my optimism. i seem to swing between super optimistic and super pessimistic, so having a voice of reason is good :)

[Snow White.]

I guess I'm doing something I see a lot (and used to annoy me, annoyingly!) and that is I'm assuming everyone is, or should be, in the same stage of their RYL journey. But there are going to be people who don't have a 'life' developed yet, they may be young or just not experience much outside of their usual routine, and there is nothing wrong with that because each to their own and who am I to judge where they should be?

We can't all be super self-validation machines.

But for those people wanting to develop further, I think your thread would be a great way of encouraging them to develop themselves at their own pace (not the pace I rudely assume people should be at. We can't all be well and that is sad, but expected).

... Your optimism... it's rubbing off like glitter on me ;)

[PassedExpectations]

ok, so one thing that has been mentioned (i think) and that i've been frustrated with on past threads like this, is that people come up with good ideas, and even start them, but then they fall by the wayside because it is just one person trying to do each thing. my suggestion is that people who have posted here, and given ideas and feedback, try to support whatever threads/movements/whatever you call its come out of it. for instance, a thread can be great, but they need momentum to really get going, and momentum comes from people posting... which means we need threads to not fall off the first page. i for one will make an effort to participate in any threads etc that come from this discussion to try and give them the "people power" to get momentum going... it would be great if other people who have posted here could try to do the same...

[Amaryllis]

I started a craft-a-long thread for February to try to get different people from different areas involved and have a positive thing going.

Pick one thing you're making. Show steps/process/in progress pictures if you want. Show off. The end.

It's easy to do and making things makes a lot of people feel better. It's a way to have a low pressure thing to accomplish for the month.

There is a HUGE problem with the different cliques around here. Some people don't want to realize that there are bad qualities in their friends. Breaking down barriers will probably help. As will just reaching out to each other.

Not being an asshole helps as well. But, you know.

[Pi.R^2]

I don't think repeating on end that there are cliques is very helpful. You can keep complaining about it, but that will only make you get yourself more wound up about it; it won't change anything. Cliques are a natural social construct which will always arise.

Why don't we focus on things we can do to promote inclusion and positivity?

I think your craft thread was lovely, and a great idea.

[PassedExpectations]

Amaryllis, i totally have to figure out how to post photos to join the craft thread! i'm working on knitting mittens right now, even though i'm only a few rows in.

i started an RYL scavenger hunt thread in fun and distractions...

[Buttons.]

I don't think repeating on end that there are cliques is very helpful. You can keep complaining about it, but that will only make you get yourself more wound up about it; it won't change anything. Cliques are a natural social construct which will always arise.

I agree that cliques will always happen and are a natural part of human nature, however how much those cliques choose to take responsibility and prevent others from feeling uncomfortable varies from clique to clique and I do think that even if there is no ill intent people need to take responsibility for their actions ad words, and their effect on others. I'm not referring to any group in particular just think it is something to be aware of as it is easy for a clique to unintentionally alienate people then become defensive if someone outside of the 'group' challenges their dynamic.

[Isoverity]

Cliques a fact of life. As far as the site goes there have always been cliques - some quite delightful. Some got a little carried away because the site let them and not because they existed per se. A forum like this to me is like a public square. You see people from around the world and find the differences are not as important as the similarities. There are always nuggets of wisdom as well as dead ends. Sorting through them has its merits. You can actually do that better online than in real life. People say you dont know people "for real" online. While that can be true I've found I can often know more that's real about people online than off. I swear I know people in real life for 10 and 20 years and cant say I have a clue what they are about lol. Online I can know more sometimes in a few minutes

[akita]

Does that include the criticism said in jest? Sorry, it's early and i've only had 4 hours sleep.

[akita]

People say you dont know people "for real" online.
I met one of my best friends online and got to know her for real offline too.

[Pops.]

I agree that there have always been cliques. I first started visiting self harm forums when I was 16 (12 years ago) and was a regular member of one site for a lot longer than I have been a regular on RYL. There were so many different cliques, as there are on this site too. I do agree with Crys that investing so much time in to sites like these can be negative. I wouldn't use the words sick and twisted but I can definitely see the point being made and agree with it. These sites can be so dangerous for a person's mental health when they are vulnerable. It's all about finding the right balance. I've definitely struggled with finding that balance in the past, but it is important to take a step back and really think about the site and what you actually gain from it, in terms of helping you to be mentally healthier.

More specifically related to the cliques thing though - I've seen several cliques on this website over the past 4 years, some more dominant than others dependant on how many members are included in any one clique. But they happen, and they will always continue to happen. A clique will disappear and another one will blossom in the blink of an eye, and there will always be members feeling left out or irritated or intimidated by such cliques, if they think the forum is being taken over by them.

I don't think that it should be ignored just because it always happens though. I think we all need to recognise that RYL is a community for ALL of us, and to be honest I don't think there is anyone that needs reminding of that. We all know this. But we cannot ignore that the clique thing keeps being brought up time and time again. It obviously upsets people and I think everyone needs to accept that and all come together to try and find a solution. There's no point in beating about the bush. There are several members here who think that there is a clique on RYL that is almost "taking over" RYL, so why aren't we all being mature adults and discussing it together to try and work with each other and bridge any gaps that people feel there may be? We ARE a community after all. Why can't we work together? There are so many things being bitched about on here and left unsaid when there is a chance for it to be said in a constructive way.

I don't think anyone in any clique that people feel exists, intends to make people feel the way they do, and I don't think the people upset by these cliques intend to single out these members in a hurtful way either. It'd be nice if everyone could be constructively honest.

I didn't fully read the thread in question that led to this thread being made, but I know that it most probably stemmed from a difference in opinion that in itself has stemmed from different cliques "clashing". I don't know if I'm the only person making that observation or not.

To be honest, I may have just babbled so much bullshit, but wanted to try and piece together my thoughts as honestly as I could. It would be nice to try and bridge some gaps but I guess people need to remember that in the real world, not everyone gets along with each other. There will always be different friendship groups formed that will naturally clash with each other, but maybe on RYL, we could learn to be more understanding of each other and somehow reach middle ground

[griddlebone]

I agree that cliques will always happen and are a natural part of human nature, however how much those cliques choose to take responsibility and prevent others from feeling uncomfortable varies from clique to clique and I do think that even if there is no ill intent people need to take responsibility for their actions ad words, and their effect on others. I'm not referring to any group in particular just think it is something to be aware of as it is easy for a clique to unintentionally alienate people then become defensive if someone outside of the 'group' challenges their dynamic.

So so true.x

[The One Who]

There are several members here who think that there is a clique on RYL that is almost "taking over" RYL, so why aren't we all being mature adults and discussing it together to try and work with each other and bridge any gaps that people feel there may be? We ARE a community after all. Why can't we work together? There are so many things being bitched about on here and left unsaid when there is a chance for it to be said in a constructive way.

In an ideal world, that would be great. However, we don't live in an ideal world, we live in one with people and those people are mentally ill. People get defensive, and that helps nothing. If anything, it just makes things worse.

[Gone.]

In an ideal world, that would be great. However, we don't live in an ideal world, we live in one with people and those people are mentally ill. People get defensive, and that helps nothing. If anything, it just makes things worse.
So we're completely powerless and shouldn't try to do anything? No, we're not going to get rid of cliques and friendship groups because we're a community and of course people get on better with different people. In any social networks cliques will seem to arise and people will feel left out but this thread is to try to get the community feel of RYL going, so knocking it isn't really productive. I agree with Louise, especially her point about us respecting that there are cliques and trying to talk through the problems that are being experienced. Being 'mentally ill' is not an excuse not to do that. I also think that too much time on RYL can be detrimental but it isn't sick and twisted. Like Louise said, some people are at that stage in their point of life, so that's what they need. That doesn't make them sick and twisted.

The threads that have popped up recently have caused a lot of distress and hurt on all accounts. However, they have been created for a reason and clearly people are feeling that there are problems with the forums. Hopefully, we can all come together and this can be used to propel us forward positively.

[Pi.R^2]

I agree that cliques will always happen and are a natural part of human nature, however how much those cliques choose to take responsibility and prevent others from feeling uncomfortable varies from clique to clique and I do think that even if there is no ill intent people need to take responsibility for their actions ad words, and their effect on others. I'm not referring to any group in particular just think it is something to be aware of as it is easy for a clique to unintentionally alienate people then become defensive if someone outside of the 'group' challenges their dynamic.
I'm getting bored of people saying "I'm not talking about any clique in particular". It's kind of annoying.

See, I think there's a big difference between a community coming together and deciding on rules, and a community coming together to discuss how they don't like certain people and how they feel alienated by them. Like, I didn't like the fact that when we started getting old London meets going again a few years ago and 'older' members were just like 'eww, new members, ceeb for that', and then when they finally started attending meets they sat at a separate table and didn't really talk to us. However, that's the way they choose to behave and I felt excluded and upset but so what? They weren't breaking any rules towards me, that's just the way the clique mentality worked at the time. What do you suggest we do? Force members to like every other member, to talk to every other member? To carefully make sure that they equally distribute their time between every single board and every single member so as to make everything fair? I was going to say that this sounds like primary school politics, but even at ten years old I was told by my teacher that it was OK if I didn't want to play with a certain person on the yard every day.

I think it's arrogant and wrong of people to challenge a certain group's dynamic, but go ahead and do it if you want but as a top tip, I imagine they'd take it better if they were challenged politely. Saying "I think your friendship group is pathetic" isn't the greatest way to get a discussion going.

[griddlebone]

See this is why this discussion doesnt work,because people get their backs up and will defend their group no matter what(naturally) with no admittance that there might actually be a problem. This isnt going to get solved so its all a bit pointless unfortunately

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

Like, I didn't like the fact that when we started getting old London meets going again a few years ago and 'older' members were just like 'eww, new members, ceeb for that', and then when they finally started attending meets they sat at a separate table and didn't really talk to us. However, that's the way they choose to behave and I felt excluded and upset but so what? They weren't breaking any rules towards me, that's just the way the clique mentality worked at the time.

I don't like the fact that you keep bringing this up, even though this wasn't what happened at all (at least from mine and a few others point of view). We sat at the end next to people we knew because the big table was already full up by you guys, we all said hi at some point, and we tried to entertain everyone.

But again, this is a perfect example of how different people view a situation, and how easily wires get crossed because no one is psychic.

Maybe if we just give everyone psychic powers, this will fix everything. That or we can have interesting conversations in our heads.

Wait. Don't people do that already?

[Pi.R^2]

See this is why this discussion doesnt work,because people get their backs up and will defend their group no matter what(naturally) with no admittance that there might actually be a problem. This isnt going to get solved so its all a bit pointless unfortunately
I personally only get defensive when my friends are called pathetic or a 'depressing case'. If given an example of a situation where members have been made to feel excluded and I will happily discuss what can be done, to not necessarily 'change' the clique, but make the clique more aware of itself, and to make the website itself more accessible. Whilst people continue to publicly mock my friends (and this time there is evidence that the 'victims' DO take offence to it), I will remain defensive, as will others and discussion WILL be pointless.

I don't like the fact that you keep bringing this up, even though this wasn't what happened at all (at least from mine and a few others point of view). We sat at the end next to people we knew because the big table was already full up by you guys, we all said hi at some point, and we tried to entertain everyone.
I didn't realise I'd brought it up a lot to be honest, sorry! It wasn't a big deal, it was just in addition to comments that some people made whilst outside smoking and stuff with previous meets that upset me, but I'm aware that a)people are going to stick with the people they know and b)My perception (and that of everyone else who was uncomfortable) is not necessarily right.

My exact point was that whilst you guys made us feel a bit uncomfortable, it's not something that should be regulated or that you should be criticised for.

I think it's cool to hear from others on how they've felt at meets and try to make suggestions of how to make people feel more included, as it's cool for you or Katie to brainstorm ideas for how to make people feel less excluded on RYL, but it would be wrong for me to say that you're wrong for the way you and your friends conduct yourselves.

[Unbreakable.]

. This isnt going to get solved so its all a bit pointless unfortunately



Can anyone point out to me again what exactly is the issue that we want to solve? Because I lost track of things. Everyone agreed that groups are a natural thing to happen, so the very existence of groups can't be the problem at hand. To me this looks like one group telling off another group for being a group. I am not meaning to attack anyone with that statement, I am just trying to explain myself.

If the issue is that something about one or several groups around here makes RYL a less supportive and safe community then can people please explain to me how that happens and what they suggest people can do to prevent that from happening?

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

If only everyone could be as rational as that Jenna, the world would be lovely.

Personally I can't remember anything that was said because that meet was a long freaking time ago, but I distinctly remembering doing a lap of the table to say hi to you & everyone else because of you guys being new and looking a bit lost, and we had a discussion about people lying about a mental health problems. See, I can rememeber that in clarity but I can't remember who else was there :P

That is all I have right now, I forget what words are.

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

Can anyone point out to me again what exactly is the issue that we want to solve? Because I lost track of things. Everyone agreed that groups are a natural thing to happen, so the very existenz of groups can't be the problem at hand. To me this looks like one group telling off another group for being a group. I am not meaning to attack anyone with that statement, I am just trying to explain myself.

If the issue is that something about one or several groups around here makes RYL a less supportive and safe community then can people please explain to me how that happens and what they suggest people can do to prevent that from happening?

I think part of the issue is people who are not in your group feel threatened. You guys are very close and have all your own lingo, hijack all the threads, talk about everyone outside RYL (or at least it seems like that, to me and a few others at least), and if someone so much as disagrees with you then they get stomped out by the rest of your group. I think people get a bit worried and concerned that they can't compete with any of you, and that because they are not part of your group of friends that they aren't wanted, etc. I think also people get worried that you guys will put out a hit on them (for lack of a better term), and then will be ridiculed. So this makes people scared to say things.

I am using you as a general statement, not you personally. I also may be talking out of my arse but I am spouting off ideas that seem rational and came up in the discussion about this with the last "cool group" as it were. I used to get lots of PMs telling me I was a horrible person for being in a "cool group". It was fun.

[Unbreakable.]

Thanks for explaing, that made a lot of sense and would also account for why people get so wound up about this. I will try to come up with something constructive to say and hope that other people will have suggestions as to how to reduce that effect. I am sure people are willing to listen to suggestions.

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

Thank you for not eating my face off :P

[Pi.R^2]

Can anyone point out to me again what exactly is the issue that we want to solve? Because I lost track of things. Everyone agreed that groups are a natural thing to happen, so the very existence of groups can't be the problem at hand. To me this looks like one group telling off another group for being a group. I am not meaning to attack anyone with that statement, I am just trying to explain myself.

If the issue is that something about one or several groups around here makes RYL a less supportive and safe community then can people please explain to me how that happens and what they suggest people can do to prevent that from happening?
This.
I think it would be really helpful if people could be honest and precise. Vague whining and general points get us nowhere. I cannot speak for others, but I would find it much more helpful if people were to say "I have a problem with X that happens regularly on board Y. I don't like it because of Z, and I feel like it causes the following problems". When you clearly define the issue and what you want to achieve it facilitates understanding from all present in the discussion and allows people to have a meaningful discussion.

I don't know whether or not this is actually the case, but from where I'm sitting it feels like the perceived problem is that Mike is very popular, that him and his friends post quite a lot in general about things that others don't find as interesting, that people use in-jokes (and will happily explain to others what the joke is) and that there's an unsavoury amount of people dwelling in my rear end. Apart from the latter which is actually quite uncomfortable, I don't see any of those things as actual problems, hence I'd appreciate clarification on the problems that people have.

[Pi.R^2]

Oh balls, I was ridiculously out-ninja'd. One moment whilst I read please :P

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

Gutted, your ninja skills are lacking.

[Pi.R^2]

Thanks for explaing, that made a lot of sense and would also account for why people get so wound up about this. I will try to come up with something constructive to say and hope that other people will have suggestions as to how to reduce that effect. I am sure people are willing to listen to suggestions.
This. Thank you for the explanation. It's very interesting to hear a polite explanation of how 'we' are perceived by others.
You say that people feel that they aren't wanted and are scared to disagree with us. Do you feel like there are lots of examples of people being 'stomped out' or unwanted, or that it's more just the 'image' that the group gives off?

Because as I always prattle on, I love getting new people involved in stuff and I found the uni student thread very welcoming when I first joined it, so I wonder if any of that intention comes across or not?

Without talking about practicalities or anything, in an ideal world, what would be one big thing that you feel would help to make people feel less threatened?

[Unbreakable.]

Thank you for not eating my face off :P


Well, you explained it very well and from the way you said things I could finally understand why people from outside the group [can we please stop pretending we're not talking about QK here?] would perceive them in a certain way. For me a lot of the issues you mention come down to the fact that a lot of the more frequent posters are from our group, so it is probably natural that it looks like we're "taking over RYL". Maybe something can be done though to reduce that effect despite our lot posting a lot.

[Pi.R^2]

Well, you explained it very well and from the way you said things I could finally understand why people from outside the group [can we please stop pretending we're not talking about QK here?] would perceive them in a certain way. For me a lot of the issues you mention come down to the fact that a lot of the more frequent posters are from our group, so it is probably natural that it looks like we're "taking over RYL". Maybe something can be done though to reduce that effect despite our lot posting a lot.
I don't think it is just QK that is under fire here actually, although I think there are probably some misconceptions about who that actually is! I remember Sophia (talaiporia) once being like "Oh, more uni thread people", when I was talking about two people who I don't believe had ever posted in the uni thread, but she bundled all people that I chatted to outside of RYL as "uni thread people". I don't imagine she's the only one who does that, which gives the uni thread a bad name for being all over the place, when actually, just because I have an in-joke with someone, it doesn't mean they're necessarily from the uni thread clique.

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

This. Thank you for the explanation. It's very interesting to hear a polite explanation of how 'we' are perceived by others.
You say that people feel that they aren't wanted and are scared to disagree with us. Do you feel like there are lots of examples of people being 'stomped out' or unwanted, or that it's more just the 'image' that the group gives off?

You're welcome. Nothing gets solved if we all tiptoe around what supposed group we are talking about and everyone gets defensive because no one can be bothered to go "oi, its you i have a problem with." Hopefully now I've started this other people can come forward and expand on my thoughts and we have a proper adult discussion with tea and biscuits and whatever else adults have in meetings.

Personally, I feel that if I ever disagreed with anyone from the QK group, I would get a lot of abuse back. I understand defending your friends opinions and sticking up for your friends, but sometimes it goes a bit too far and people tend to not say anything in fear of the repercussions. Especially because it is also well known that QK'ers talk about people on fb, etc. Though this might be me being paranoid because I don't like people not liking me, all I want to do is make people's lives as easy as possible and I feel bad if people don't like me. I don't know if this is the way anyone else feels, but that is my thought process.

As with all friend groups, I think it's just QK'ers have each others backs, as it were, so everyone knows that there is at least 2 of you who will stalk the other and back them up if necessary (or unnecessary, whatevz bruv.)


Because as I always prattle on, I love getting new people involved in stuff and I found the uni student thread very welcoming when I first joined it, so I wonder if any of that intention comes across or not?

I don't like the uni student thread. I also don't like any of the big zillion page long threads. I don't feel comfortable posting there, because once again it's turned into a group. I think me and Liv have mentioned this before in the other threads about rooms (I will look this up a bit later after I have replied to all of you) about not feeling welcome and then deleting our posts. I think it might be because it's very chatty oriented (or at least was when I tried to join in) and I don't know how to talk to people at the best of times, let alone a group who has all the lingo and memes and all that jazz. I don't see anything wrong with it, if you wanna go ahead and chat then be my guest, but that is just my take on it.

Without talking about practicalities or anything, in an ideal world, what would be one big thing that you feel would help to make people feel less threatened?

I'm not sure on this one. I think sometimes without meaning to, QK'ers get really excited and tend to talk over other people or spam memes (which is another thing that really annoys me, we are not 4chan/9gag/reddit, but again, personal pet peeve!) and people get a bit overwhelmed and don't know how to respond to the group. Which leads to them not posting and things. I guess maybe tone it down a bit? Sometimes I feel you guys are a bit larger than life and I don't know how to deal with that. Maybe also think about the way you conduct yourselves - for example, Nic had a point on the other thread that sometimes angry people are just really upset, and you guys didn't see why you should ask if they're okay instead of just reporting it and leaving the mods to deal with. (I don't think conduct is the right word and I think that is what the point was, I wasn't on the internet at the time, shock horror! I also don't really remember where this point was going so I will leave it here.)

Well, you explained it very well and from the way you said things I could finally understand why people from outside the group [can we please stop pretending we're not talking about QK here?] would perceive them in a certain way. For me a lot of the issues you mention come down to the fact that a lot of the more frequent posters are from our group, so it is probably natural that it looks like we're "taking over RYL". Maybe something can be done though to reduce that effect despite our lot posting a lot.

I'm pretty sure it's just because you guys post a hell of a lot, you are everywhere, everyone seems to like you and wont disagree with you, and it's just a bit.. everywhere? You seem to be in every board all the time with something and sometimes I think it'd be nice to just go somewhere without all the flashing images and the memes and stuff.

I am sorry for wall of text, and this is all my personal opinion with a bit of guessing going on. I am going to have a cigarette now whilst you read this and then if you have anymore questions, go ahead and I will answer them when I get back.

Also, thank you for being civil and respectful and actually wanting to fix things instead of... not. :P

[Unbreakable.]

Shall I call it "Jenna's circle of friends and others"? :P
Yeah, it's probably not exclusively QK but that's defintely one of the groups people have issues with. I'm probably just getting geuniely defensive about what I'd consider "my group" on here. :S

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

Bloody hell I took 8 minutes to write that mother*****er. Cigarette is deserved!

I'd also like to say I don't have a problem with you guys personally, I'm sure you're all very nice people (or there wouldn't be a group) it's just your actions that annoy me (and maybe others sometimes).

I also have to stop using ()'s.

ANYWAY CIGARETTE.

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

Shall I call it "Jenna's circle of friends and others"? :P
Yeah, it's probably not exclusively QK but that's defintely one of the groups people have issues with. I'm probably just getting geuniely defensive about what I'd consider "my group" on here. :S

I'd consider you part of the QK'ers. If that helps?

[Snow White.]

I would like to know what QK is... :3

I think this is all interesting to read, though it must be making the "QK" group paranoid as hell. But I always thought they were friendly. I guess I haven't witnessed the 'stomping out' you describe Tiff. I remember a big clique years ago who delighted in sarcasm across the boards among other rule breaking. And that never started a thread like this.

(I recognise though that I was a mod then, not now, so I may be missing important pieces).

[squirrelspit]

Some points from a drunken charlie.

- i think its sad how everyone focuses on te QKers spammings/activity in the general board when they are actually hugely active in the support boards.

- i think its sad how Jenna seems to be in the role of spokes person.

- Has no one else noticed how group QK is actually encompassing a tonne more people (most noticable for me has been Stellata Katie, then Kiran, now Lucy) and i dont thinkt hats a bad thing either.

- Can you imagine how quiet RYL in general would be without that group of people.

- i can remember when we had the exact issues with 'the gays', people come and go.. oh well.

- i have never deliberately ignored people at a meet, i am just shy if i dont know you and it comes across as antisocialness.

- its the ****ing internet.

[Snow White.]

Yay for Charlie, very wise words.

[Bellatrix]

^Quoting yourself for added effect? :P

You did it for me - basically I agree with what you said!

[Pi.R^2]

Your wall of text was a good read!

I hope that this discussion has shown that disagreeing with 'us' doesn't always cause us to become aggressive? I know that I am very defensive, and part of that is because I over-react to stuff, but part of that is that I often feel very attacked. You said that you feel like everyone likes us, but I actually feel like a lot of RYL dislikes both me personally, and my 'clique'. I know I over-react sometimes, but I think it would help if people could be politer? Like, if someone calls my friends pathetic, I will get angry and become intimidating (or as intimidating as a maths geek with a spoon fetish can be!).

*hands out biscuits*

The event of the past few days have made me realise that I have a problem with my temper and I create unnecessary drama and I think you made a good point about cutting people some slack when they appear angry. Also that it isn't always imperative for me to jump in and back people up!

With the uni student thread, I accept that you don't like it. Do you feel like it should change, or that it's OK for there to be threads that don't interest you?

Where do you feel like we're larger than life? Is it more a general thing, or are there certain places where you feel meme-ing and joking about are really especially unwanted?

[Unbreakable.]

Tiff, I have a feeling that (like I said) a lot of those issues seem to be caused by the fact that QKers (or what people see as QKers) are among the most frequent posters on here. I am not sure it would be legit to expect people to reduce that. [I am aware you didn't say that but it's the only thing I could think off.]

Thank you Aimee and Charlie, it's good to see that people do perceive QK as something positve too. :)

[Pi.R^2]

Oh for Christ's sake I need to stop taking so long to type things!

I feel like I should take a step back and stop speaking for people!

[Pi.R^2]

But before I shut up!

I would like to know what QK is... :3
It's a sideways ninja- tilt your head to the left and the K is the arms and legs, and the Q is a face with a ninja mask :)

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

Some points from a drunken charlie.

Hi drunk Charlie, from a drunk Tiff. Apparently when drunk I forget I am scared of people and I can find words easier than usual. Who knew!

- i think its sad how everyone focuses on te QKers spammings/activity in the general board when they are actually hugely active in the support boards.

I think because the spam is a lot more prevalent than their support, though I no longer visit support boards because of reasons, so I cannot comment on their support giving. I will take your word that they are hugely active and this is great, good job guys. This is what RYL is about after all.

- i think its sad how Jenna seems to be in the role of spokes person.

It seems as if Jenna is the "leader" of the QK'ers, I'm not entirely sure why but it looks like there is a Jenna, then others, all following. No idea if this is the case, but just how it feels to me (and a few others). Sorry Jenna, if you wish to stop being the spokesperson, do it!

- Has no one else noticed how group QK is actually encompassing a tonne more people (main noticables for me have been Stellata Katie, then Kiran, now Lucy) and i dont thinkt hats a bad thing either, nor do i think it can really be described as a clique any more.

I have noticed, but to me it just seems as if the group is getting bigger and I am the odd one for not being included, which makes me sad because what is wrong with me! :(

- Can you imagine how quiet RYL on heneral would be without that group of people.

A lot less image spam and probably a lot less conversation. A LITTLE LESS CONVERSATION A LITTLE MORE ACTION. Or something.

- i can remember when we ha the exact issues with 'the gays', people come and go.. oh well.

Again, I don't think this is a new thing. When apparently I was part of the old cool group, this thread was made but instead of QK'ers it was "gays and cool group". It's nothing new. Things change and move and I think that might also be another reason why people are a bit like :S because they miss the old times and the old people and feel they are not cool enough to fit in with the new people. This can also be said for previous cool groups.

- i have never deliberately ignored people at a meet, i am just shy if i dont know you and it comes across as antisocialness.

This to an extent, I am more comfortable talking to people I know/have known. Probably the same for a lot of people because RYL.

- its the ****ing internet.

RYL is an internet home for a lot of people though, a safe haven of sorts.

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

Your wall of text was a good read!

I hope that this discussion has shown that disagreeing with 'us' doesn't always cause us to become aggressive? I know that I am very defensive, and part of that is because I over-react to stuff, but part of that is that I often feel very attacked. You said that you feel like everyone likes us, but I actually feel like a lot of RYL dislikes both me personally, and my 'clique'. I know I over-react sometimes, but I think it would help if people could be politer? Like, if someone calls my friends pathetic, I will get angry and become intimidating (or as intimidating as a maths geek with a spoon fetish can be!).

I hope it does too, and this proves to people that sometimes people are actually nice and wont always attack you (apparently this also applies to me, I don't know if you've noticed but I find it hard to talk to people without offending them because I have no social skills and I phrase things badly because words) so I would like it if people could take from this that people are not all they seem!

*hands out biscuits*

Better be nice biscuits. Omnom.

The event of the past few days have made me realise that I have a problem with my temper and I create unnecessary drama and I think you made a good point cutting people some slack when they appear angry. Also that it isn't always imperative to jump in and back people up!

(Y).

With the uni student thread, I accept that you don't like it. Do you feel like it should change, or that it's OK for there to be threads that don't interest you?

It's the internet. There will always be things I dislike but I actually have the willpower to ignore it because it doesn't interest me, therefore I don't really care about it. Things like this happen all the time. Some subreddits on reddit bore me, so I don't visit them and don't care. Problem solved. It's only a problem when people forget that they can infact, just ignore people/threads/things, instead of jumping all over it and making things difficult for everyone else, and of course, everyone loves a good drama fest. I don't think it should change because it serves a purpose for a lot of people, and a lot of people are happy and comfortable there. Why should it change for just me? Such is life, I get over it and move on!

Where do you feel like we're larger than life? Is it more a general thing, or are there certain places where you feel meme-ing and joking about are really especially unwanted?

A specific example I can think of is the thread ashlee made about songs bits in review and recommendations, it just seemed a bit unnecessary to me to spam her thread with lots of irrelevant pictures and things.

Also, (sorry Mike, I don't mean to target you!) Mike does a lot of replies with just pictures. Personally I feel that we aren't that kind of forum, so it's unecessary, but again, is just me personally and I can get over it.

I think it's because the QK'ers are the largest posting entity at the moment, and you seem to be everywhere and you always have an input. Which happens! I'm not saying you need to all stop posting and become boring and whatever, I just feel that sometimes everywhere I turn there is a picture of a cat or a meme or ALL THE THINGS and I'm just like PLEASE I WANT A NORMAL CONVERSATION BEFORE MY HEAD EXPLODES.


Tiff, I have a feeling that (like I said) a lot of those issues seem to be caused by the fact that QKers (or what people see as QKers) are among the most frequent posters on here. I am not sure it would be legit to expect people to reduce that. [I am aware you didn't say that but it's the only thing I could think off.]

I really don't expect you all to stop posting, that's unrealistic and I definitely am not a prominent member that you would pay attention to me and stop or tone it down. I wouldn't expect that anyway, because... I don't own this website, I'm not a dick and I don't run your lives :P

Thank you Aimee and Charlie, it's good to see that people do perceive QK as something positve too. :)

You guys have got people talking, and have made some jolly good threads. You're not all negative, and I don't mean to portray you as such, because you have done a lot of good!

[griddlebone]

Tiff makes good points.x

[[Luna]]

Just wanted to say that I know I have been responsible for memes and maybe over used them sometimes. I have also been rude to some members when I wasn't thinking properly about their feelings but I want to say that I have been trying a lot harder to tone down the memes and I want to be genuinely supportive and open to other members old and new.

I want to apologise if I have appeared intimidating or dismissive or rude to other members as this has not been my intention.

Just wanted to put that out there :)

[griddlebone]

I think its difficult on forums when people deal with things in different ways and what one person might find funny someone else might find rude or upsetting or whatever,especially if youre not a member that uses the site that often.

Cliques have always been a part of RYL and I dont think theyre necessarily a problem, but there does need to be some sort of containing with it....because overrunning peoples threads, especially those group threads that arent general chat can be intimidating.

For example the 'say something' thread, it seems that thread in particular isnt running the way it should be, members are replying to each other and having conversations in that thread and that makes it intimidating for other people to post, its also unnecessary as there are a lot of other threads where conversations are going on.

Its always going to make people feel left out when there is a group of people who are prolific posters and who know each other in real life/have in jokes and so on. That in itself isnt a problem but as of late it seems to be becoming an issue.

[griddlebone]

Shall I call it "Jenna's circle of friends and others"? :P
Yeah, it's probably not exclusively QK but that's defintely one of the groups people have issues with. I'm probably just getting geuniely defensive about what I'd consider "my group" on here. :S


I think thats natural (I said that in my post before) its natural to want to stick up for friends and 'your group.' But anyone getting defensive doesnt really solve anything, I think everyone is guilty of being blind to issues within people/groups of people and its easy to ignore them. x

[Unbreakable.]

I am guilty of using the Say Here Thread wrongly and will do my best to at least tone it down if I fail to stop that. That is a good point and a something that people can change. So thank you for bringing that up.

[griddlebone]

Thank you for taking that well, I was worried about using that as an example :P x

[Alone and Scared]

I am so confused by this thread.... I don't even know what a Q-whatsit is, who one is, where one is or anything else.... I'm not, and never have been in a clique, well, there was a really nice little friendship group but one went to heaven and things were never the same after that.... Sometimes I feel a little like 'Oh shouldn't post on that thread' if it seems there is a friendship group - but I suppose that's just like the real world?

[Unbreakable.]

Well, I think people can understand that it borderlines on rule breaking. I think it is still acceptable to give short, encouraging replies at times as long as it is avoided to turn it into a conversation?

[The War Doctor]

I'd like to ask a question about the Say Here thread if I may. I agree with Liv in principle, because let's face it, the point of the Say Here thread is not to have full-blown conversations, and I admit I'm guilty of doing that many times. And I know that technically we're not supposed to talk about RYLers on that thread. However, the point of the thread is to say to someone what you can't actually say to them. Presumably this refers to real-life people that we feel we can't talk to in person. But where do you draw the line when it comes to addressing RYLers on that thread? Because many of us do know each other in real life, and sometimes we need to say things to each other and can't.

[sparklyshoes]

I know I'm breaking the rule and I have nothing important to add but Charlie had a great point



- its the ****ing internet.

[ChocolateMarvel]

If only everyone could be as rational as that Jenna, the world would be lovely.

Personally I can't remember anything that was said because that meet was a long freaking time ago, but I distinctly remembering doing a lap of the table to say hi to you & everyone else because of you guys being new and looking a bit lost, and we had a discussion about people lying about a mental health problems. See, I can rememeber that in clarity but I can't remember who else was there :P

That is all I have right now, I forget what words are.
Just to add on to this. I attended that meet and I distinctly recall someone on the other table from myself, calling themselves the 'cool table' which to overly-sensitive slightly insane people means: 'OMG THEY HATE ME AND THEY DON'T WANT TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH ME AND THEY THINK THEY ARE COOL, OMG IM NOT COOL' (you get the picture)

Anyway.... moving on! :p

I think this kind of open and frank discussion is very helpful as I (who considers myself a QK'er) do not always jump into threads to support my QK friends unless it is proper out of line as I am quite good at stepping back and going errrrr maybe a little bit of paranoia here! ALSO, I think that QKtype people are very accepting of newcomers- I know at the above meet for example, Laurawr came and we didn't know her but made friends with her and in fact I know that if someone looks scared or lonely at a meet or is apprehensive about travelling, we are some of the first people to jump on them (not literally) and try and make them feel welcome (perhaps not what Jenna did to Rob though) through random conversation or silly games.

ANYWAY, enough from me, because there have probably been 400 more replies since I started this.

[Leo Pard]

I'm just going to butt in with my two cents,
Basically, I agree with Tiff. Completely. This is basically because I have been on the end of it. A little while ago, everyone thought that a comment I made was directly attacking Jenna purely because of a disagreement that we had had before that. This ended with me getting 12 points. I'm not saying that I didn't deserve them for what I said, I'm not saying that I particularly care getting them. What I care about is people thinking that because Jenna and I had one disagreement that any comment that I make that is a bit mean is about her. It's not. I believe that I get on rather well with Jenna.
This entire situation has meant that RYL has started to piss me off a bit because I'm always scared that if I make a remark that people don't agree with, I will get peanalised for it.
I'm not saying this to prove a point or attack anyone or anything. What has happened has happened and I have got over it. I just hate the fact that people who don't even know me see me as this horrible person who is always being malicious to Jenna when I'm actually a pretty nice person who dosen't hold grudges unless people have done something particularly horrible to myself or my friends. I hate that no one will give me a chance because they automatically assume that if I say one thing that goes against something, I am being malicious about it when I'm really really not.
We had the gays, RYL has moved on, things like that will happen. We just have to not assume the worst of each other all of the time. We have to get together and make it work for the community as a whole because at the end of the day, there will always be the newbies and the oldies. People have to get over themselves.

[griddlebone]

I'd like to ask a question about the Say Here thread if I may. I agree with Liv in principle, because let's face it, the point of the Say Here thread is not to have full-blown conversations, and I admit I'm guilty of doing that many times. And I know that technically we're not supposed to talk about RYLers on that thread. However, the point of the thread is to say to someone what you can't actually say to them. Presumably this refers to real-life people that we feel we can't talk to in person. But where do you draw the line when it comes to addressing RYLers on that thread? Because many of us do know each other in real life, and sometimes we need to say things to each other and can't.

I personally think that it should be in RV if thats the case, simply because (and I have seen this happen) someone will say something and then the person its aimed at quotes and replies, then the other person quotes and replies back an really thats not the point of the thread. If it were my choice then it wouldnt be allowed to talk about/to anyone on RYL because it defeats the object of the thread,although were pretty lenient with the talking about other members on that thread.

I know its not entirely fair to make people take it to a ranting and venting thread but I think that would be the best solution.x

[griddlebone]

What I care about is people thinking that because Jenna and I had one disagreement that any comment that I make that is a bit mean is about her. It's not. I believe that I get on rather well with Jenna.
This entire situation has meant that RYL has started to piss me off a bit because I'm always scared that if I make a remark that people don't agree with, I will get peanalised for it.
I'm not saying this to prove a point or attack anyone or anything. What has happened has happened and I have got over it. I just hate the fact that people who don't even know me see me as this horrible person who is always being malicious to Jenna when I'm actually a pretty nice person who dosen't hold grudges unless people have done something particularly horrible to myself or my friends. I hate that no one will give me a chance because they automatically assume that if I say one thing that goes against something, I am being malicious about it when I'm really really not.


I have been in this boat too! Having my rants reported because people assume its about a person I have had a disagreement with and so on. Im a pretty non grudge holding person, I tend to say what Im feeling and then move on but its difficult when other people assume youre having a vendetta or something.x

[Leo Pard]

Exactly Liv. It's when people drag things way out of context and proportion that the sh*t hits the fan. It sucks but what can you do apart from trust people not to go mental about something.

[griddlebone]

Exactly Liv. It's when people drag things way out of context and proportion that the sh*t hits the fan. It sucks but what can you do apart from trust people not to go mental about something.

Indeed! Its especially hard when its your friend who has been flamed or whatever too,but I think in those cases its best to let the two people deal with it and move on in whatever capacity that is.x

[snailonvalium]

Probably not constructive but most of the time when i feel rubbish,i like the fact there are spammy threads in gc,I've always felt ok randomly jumping in and out of them as there isn't the feeling of committing to replying-whereas in specific support threads,i feel bad if i just randomly stop.
I find it comforting to know that even though i hardly ever post anymore,i can join in with a bit of banter and no one goes "who the hell are you???".
Maybe its just me though. Or possibly Im more comfortable with that sort of thing having come a long way from the person i used to be....

[squirrelspit]

i would like to say, that whenever i post something on RYL, or when i was moderating if ever i had to intervene in a QK thread.. and indeed in my replies on this thread just now.. i imagine that you all talk about what everyone is saying and pick apart what people have written because i have heard rumours (as, i think, have most people) of a facebook group that you all have and it is to talk about people here.

thusly, it makes me paranoid about my activity here. I dont like the thought of being ripped to pieces behind my back.

(i dont think thusly is a word but ive thought about it so much that it sounds ridiculous anyway so im not sure at all)

[griddlebone]

i would like to say, that whenever i post something on RYL, or when i was moderating if ever i had to intervene in a QK thread.. and indeed in my replies on this thread just now.. i imagine that you all talk about what everyone is saying and pick apart what people have written because i have heard rumours (as, i think, have most people) of a facebook group that you all have and it is to talk about people here.

thusly, it makes me paranoid about my activity here. I dont like the thought of being ripped to pieces behind my back.

(i dont think thusly is a word but ive thought about it so much that it sounds ridiculous anyway so im not sure at all)

I have heard this too (and seen evidence) of it and it makes me sad and paranoid too.x

[ChocolateMarvel]

i would like to say, that whenever i post something on RYL, or when i was moderating if ever i had to intervene in a QK thread.. and indeed in my replies on this thread just now.. i imagine that you all talk about what everyone is saying and pick apart what people have written because i have heard rumours (as, i think, have most people) of a facebook group that you all have and it is to talk about people here.

thusly, it makes me paranoid about my activity here. I dont like the thought of being ripped to pieces behind my back.

(i dont think thusly is a word but ive thought about it so much that it sounds ridiculous anyway so im not sure at all)

I have heard this too (and seen evidence) of it and it makes me sad and paranoid too.x

OK soooo...

Yes some people are part of a Facebook group, yes those people may all be members of this site but it is not there for us to talk about people here on. YES, it happens. But this is a private entity away from RYL. I may talk about someone here, I may talk about someone from (god forbid) my 'real life'..... as these both affect me. Its like am friends with lots of random people at uni but I have a specific group for those I (used to) spend most time with.

I also know and have seen evidence of other members and a mod having inappropriate RYL-related conversations on FB (neither Liv or Charlie I hasten to add). People forget how visible FB can be.

Don't be sad and paranoid Liv or Charlie..... I do believe the general consensus is that you are both pretty cool! :p

[griddlebone]

OK soooo...

Yes some people are part of a Facebook group, yes those people may all be members of this site but it is not there for us to talk about people here on. YES, it happens. But this is a private entity away from RYL. I may talk about someone here, I may talk about someone from (god forbid) my 'real life'..... as these both affect me. Its like am friends with lots of random people at uni but I have a specific group for those I (used to) spend most time with.

I also know and have seen evidence of other members and a mod having inappropriate RYL-related conversations on FB (neither Liv or Charlie I hasten to add). People forget how visible FB can be.

Don't be sad and paranoid Liv or Charlie..... I do believe the general consensus is that you are both pretty cool! :p

Yeah...see we know its away from RYL and therefore nothing to do with us, but I think anyone would feel the same way really....its like, in a perfect internet world what happens on RYL should stay here,I dont like feeling paranoid about it but I know it has been in the backs of our minds when handing out points etc. I guess its never nice to feel like people might be talking about you behind your back.....even though you know it happens all the time, when its being brought to your attention it kind of sucks.x

[Unbreakable.]

I think the main function of said FB group is to make it easier for more than two people at a time to have a conversation. And most of the time people use it to post about personal issues they don't want on a public forum. It is definitely not about talking behind people's back.

[squirrelspit]

:) thats nice to know.

thanks.

[ChocolateMarvel]

its like, in a perfect internet world what happens on RYL should stay here,I dont like feeling paranoid about it but I know it has been in the backs of our minds when handing out points etc. I guess its never nice to feel like people might be talking about you behind your back.....
Saying that though, in a perfect world, should everything that happens at uni stay at uni and everything that happens in my family stay in there? No of course it shouldn't because I would explode. I get paranoid about what is being said in mod and community team threads and I am guessing that being as you have seen evidence (god knows what or how) you talk about us. This place is paranoia central.

I think the main function of said FB group is to make it easier for more than two people at a time to have a conversation. And most of the time people use it to post about personal issues they don't want on a public forum. It is definitely not about talking behind people's back.
What Lana said! Also, I feel more comfortable on FB in public places and therefore can get support there when I don't feel comfortable being on RYL- ie at uni, when with family....

In other news, there is heavy precipitation where I am!

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

In other news, there is heavy precipitation where I am!

Know that feel, whoever said living on the coast was awesome lied! It's lovely in summer but in winter it's like ****ING HELL GUYS, WHO EMPTIED THE RIVER UP THERE.

[griddlebone]

Saying that though, in a perfect world, should everything that happens at uni stay at uni and everything that happens in my family stay in there? No of course it shouldn't because I would explode. I get paranoid about what is being said in mod and community team threads and I am guessing that being as you have seen evidence (god knows what or how) you talk about us. This place is paranoia central.


What Lana said! Also, I feel more comfortable on FB in public places and therefore can get support there when I don't feel comfortable being on RYL- ie at uni, when with family....

In other news, there is heavy precipitation where I am!

Thats why Im saying in a perfect world :P

Nope infact I was randomly PMd one day when I hadnt even spoken to anyone about anything like that!Honestly unless there is a mod issue to do with someone I dont tend to discuss members and what they do, I try and keep my worlds seperate! x

[squirrelspit]

i know i had a paranoid attack about one of your rants liv and reported you and pm'd you like 'why are you talking about me behind my back? why cant you talk to my faceeeee?'


im totes normz yo.

[squirrelspit]

dont know why i had to write down how insanely paranoid i get.. liv probably knows thats what i did. seen as we talked about it.

nice one brah.

[ChocolateMarvel]

Dude I wish we had a perfect world.... (I wonder what everyones would look like)....

Its really hard to not discuss people and things you care about though. I am rubbish at keeping things separate. :p I am sure a therapist would have something to say about that!

The coast is AMAZING! Mank weather or not! I would love to be all wrapped up warm at the seaside now watching the waves crash against the shore whilst holding onto something as not to get blown away! :p

[griddlebone]

i know i had a paranoid attack about one of your rants liv and reported you and pm'd you like 'why are you talking about me behind my back? why cant you talk to my faceeeee?'


im totes normz yo.

Yeah....

and that time when you came in chat and you were like WHY ARE YOU SLAGGING ME OFF I BET IT WAS ABOUT ME' and then ran away and I was like D: D: D:

Those incidents both happened within like 2 weeks of each other!

Youre so normal :3 I do the same though when you make vague rants im like OMGSHEHATESMEWHATDIDIDO.x

[squirrelspit]

i promise that if i am cross with you about anything i will tell you to your face.

[griddlebone]

Dude I wish we had a perfect world.... (I wonder what everyones would look like)....

Its really hard to not discuss people and things you care about though. I am rubbish at keeping things separate. :p I am sure a therapist would have something to say about that!

The coast is AMAZING! Mank weather or not! I would love to be all wrapped up warm at the seaside now watching the waves crash against the shore whilst holding onto something as not to get blown away! :p

I wonder too!

See thats the thing, RYL stuff doesnt spill over....I dont think I have ever said anything on FB about it and I only have a few people from here in my real life, but thats my decision,not saying its better or anything

. Just what Im saying is that I wouldnt ever go looking to see if people are saying with about me or whatever and I already have enough things to complain about without complaining about people from here :P I just want to be clear that were not gossiping about you or whatever!x

[griddlebone]

i promise that if i am cross with you about anything i will tell you to your face.

Im so paranoid Im like....never seeing charlie ever again just incase ¬_¬ x

[PassedExpectations]

ok... sorry i left this for so long, i've been ill so far this weekend, and trying to get massive first week back homework done. just read this now, and am in a daze, so i'm sorry if i missed anything.

again, thank you all for keeping this as respectful as it has been. how about some ideas now about how to make it better. what can each of you do so that these arguments/paranoia/etc don't happen again or happen less often?

[ChocolateMarvel]

I think we need to try and think the best about each other. I for one think that both Charlie and Liv do a great job so they shouldn't worry. Bitching occurs in life- its a way of letting off steam but its the overall opinion about individuals that matters.

I do try and think the best about people here until I see evidence to the contrary.... so errrrr yeah- turn the thinking around.... good luck with that though.... we could have RYL group therapy sessions where we all talk about our feelings and how hurt stuff makes us feel :p

Sorry my mind is now just trolling with silly ideas.....

[griddlebone]

I think we need to try and think the best about each other. I for one think that both Charlie and Liv do a great job so they shouldn't worry. Bitching occurs in life- its a way of letting off steam but its the overall opinion about individuals that matters.

I do try and think the best about people here until I see evidence to the contrary.... so errrrr yeah- turn the thinking around.... good luck with that though.... we could have RYL group therapy sessions where we all talk about our feelings and how hurt stuff makes us feel :p

Sorry my mind is now just trolling with silly ideas.....

Thank you!x

I always wanted to do something like that in chat but it would be a total bloodbath and everyone thought I was crazy for thinking it was a good idea.....so high five for being in the crazy idea boat :P x

[offlineforever]

I've wanted to say something for days in this thread but I didn't want to say it when I was feeling emotional as it wouldn't help anyone.

Anyway, I do try to keep FB and RYL seperate and yes I am a QK'er and yes we do sometimes overlap. I admit that I too have discussed members from RYL off RYL, but usually this is when I am having a fit of paranoia and feel someone has said something negative to me and need the reassurance that I am overeacting from friends I trust.

In hindsight, and insight from people who are not in this friendship group, I see that this may well not be the best plan of action and in future I feel that maybe it would be better for me to contact the RYL member involved, something that I will be doing from now on.

I also would like to take a moment to say to anyone that I have annoyed or upset with my actions, I am truly sorry. I honestly didn't realise that my actions where hurting people. I have to say though, if you feel I have upset you in any way, do feel free to message me and discuss it. I'd rather know and learn from my mistakes than go on with someone hating me for something I didn't realise I had done.

And I agree with whoever mentioned being able to read minds, it would make it a lot easier in the long run!

Also as a final point, I was penalised a few years ago for something that I wasn't actually that involved with at the tine, based on known friendships/arguments between members in real life rather than online, which really upset me at the time as it felt like I was being punished just for knowing people rather than not behaving. So I understand the feelings some people have surrounding things going on offline behind people's backs.

[offlineforever]

Also, on the idea of how to deal with issues. I suppose the only thing is to suggest talking to the person involved directly via PM or something to try and talk through the issue instead of just jumping down each others throats.

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

Yes I really encourage the "if you have a problem with me, please PM me and tell me so I can fix it" attitude, because if I don't know I'm upsetting you then I'll just carry on because I don't realise!

Obviously you can be nice about or or a dick, but you get the gist.

[griddlebone]

See the only problem I have with that is you dont know who is fine with getting a PM like that and who isnt. I know that most people will say they would prefer it but I feel like in reality if you started getting PMs with a list of how you were pissing me off it would be different.x

[Pi.R^2]

Probably not constructive but most of the time when i feel rubbish,i like the fact there are spammy threads in gc,I've always felt ok randomly jumping in and out of them as there isn't the feeling of committing to replying-whereas in specific support threads,i feel bad if i just randomly stop.
I find it comforting to know that even though i hardly ever post anymore,i can join in with a bit of banter and no one goes "who the hell are you???".
Maybe its just me though. Or possibly Im more comfortable with that sort of thing having come a long way from the person i used to be....
I'm glad to read this. This is the impression I've got, as I see lots of new people jumping in to chat-type stuff and they are always welcomed cheerfully, in my opinion.

Charlie, apart from a strongly worded PM you sent me nearly two years ago, I have never had a bad word to say about you. Honest! So you really don't need to be paranoid.

I have heard this too (and seen evidence) of it and it makes me sad and paranoid too.x
So. I'm not sure if your evidence is from the same incident I am thinking of, but let me share a fun story. An RYL member came to our house and said that my friends and I were 'disgusting' for having a facebook group to bitch about RYL members. We were obviously upset by this, and also like 'dafuq??', because we do not have a facebook group to bitch about people. To prove this point, Jodie went into the group and browsed the last twenty or so conversations and found none of them to have any mention of other RYL members. Not that we should have to defend our private conversations, but for the record, this facebook group has mainly fun stories of our day, mundane queries (e.g. how do I tell if this smoothie has gone off?), heroic tales, and woe posts. Very occasionally we talk about RYL members. At least we have the decency to do so in private and not on public facebook statuses. If anyone here can hold their hands up and say they've never talked about someone on RYL on faceook, in person or via PM, then they can throw the first stone. (oooh, I just went all biblical!).

As a further fun fact, said facebook was originally called 'spams' because we were spamming RYL a bit much and wanted to be less annoying, so had our overflow spamming on facebook.

I honestly think that this has been blown out of proportion. I know of a facebook group that exists/existed entirely to mock one particular RYL member but that is not what we are about, and to my knowledge not a single one of my friends is part of that group.

I think the main function of said FB group is to make it easier for more than two people at a time to have a conversation. And most of the time people use it to post about personal issues they don't want on a public forum. It is definitely not about talking behind people's back.
This this this.

i know i had a paranoid attack about one of your rants liv and reported you and pm'd you like 'why are you talking about me behind my back? why cant you talk to my faceeeee?'
Liv is so good at inducing paranoia it would seem! I always assume her rants are about me, even though she barely knows me :P

See the only problem I have with that is you dont know who is fine with getting a PM like that and who isnt. I know that most people will say they would prefer it but I feel like in reality if you started getting PMs with a list of how you were pissing me off it would be different.x
Maybe people should have in their signatures "I am pro-PMs about disagreements" :P
I guess as long as they are polite, they shouldn't cause an issue, and people can just ignore them if they want?
Like, with the Flem issue (hi Flem!), instead of getting upset maybe I could of politely PMed Flem and said that I felt he had a problem with me and asked if I'd done something to offend him? I didn't do that because I had decided he hated me and thought he would of shouted at me, but maybe we don't always need to assume the worst in people! It sounds like neither of us actually had a major problem with eachother, and if I'd not been a cowardy custard, we perhaps could of had a civil chat about it earlier on and stopped things getting out of hand.

[FabulousMike]

Probably not constructive but most of the time when i feel rubbish,i like the fact there are spammy threads in gc,I've always felt ok randomly jumping in and out of them as there isn't the feeling of committing to replying-whereas in specific support threads,i feel bad if i just randomly stop.
I find it comforting to know that even though i hardly ever post anymore,i can join in with a bit of banter and no one goes "who the hell are you???".
Maybe its just me though. Or possibly Im more comfortable with that sort of thing having come a long way from the person i used to be....
I have nothing else to add but this comment makes me supper happy!

As one of the "top" spammers in GC with me being active in the chatty chat thread it's never my intention to make anyone feel not welcome.

There's a lot of stuff that goes on in the background with threads like the chatty chat one that the mods or anyone else can't see..

Like when in the chatty chat thread someone new joins the thread, I take the time out to PM them and welcome them to the thread and give them heads up about the speed, sometimes comments get missed etc etc, just to make said new person feel welcome and at home in said thread...So just keep in mind a lot of stuff happens in the background that you don't see.

Ok, pointless post over.

[griddlebone]

So. I'm not sure if your evidence is from the same incident I am thinking of, but let me share a fun story. An RYL member came to our house and said that my friends and I were 'disgusting' for having a facebook group to bitch about RYL members. We were obviously upset by this, and also like 'dafuq??', because we do not have a facebook group to bitch about people. To prove this point, Jodie went into the group and browsed the last twenty or so conversations and found none of them to have any mention of other RYL members. Not that we should have to defend our private conversations, but for the record, this facebook group has mainly fun stories of our day, mundane queries (e.g. how do I tell if this smoothie has gone off?), heroic tales, and woe posts. Very occasionally we talk about RYL members. At least we have the decency to do so in private and not on public facebook statuses. If anyone here can hold their hands up and say they've never talked about someone on RYL on faceook, in person or via PM, then they can throw the first stone. (oooh, I just went all biblical!).

As a further fun fact, said facebook was originally called 'spams' because we were spamming RYL a bit much and wanted to be less annoying, so had our overflow spamming on facebook.

I honestly think that this has been blown out of proportion. I know of a facebook group that exists/existed entirely to mock one particular RYL member but that is not what we are about, and to my knowledge not a single one of my friends is part of that group.


I think if people know you have a facebook group with a lot of members from here then people will assume youre bitching about members, it isnt the first time and its a conclusion people always jump to. You dont need to defend your conversations, personally I couldnt care less if all of your conversations revolved around what a horrible person I am, BUT whatever convos you do have people will be paranoid about it, tis a.human nature an b. the nature of the website.

I will throw the first stone about FB, never mentioned an ryler there, never will, but again thats personal choice. If you have that group then why is there even more spam than usual around at the moment? :P

It hasnt been blown out of proportion....it was two people saying that in light of rumours/what they have seen/heard that we felt a little paranoid, then it was explained to us, then we were no long paranoid so I think thats a bit unfair.



My rants are pretty vague but most of the time if people have a think youll realise its not about you and if youre worried it is you then you've obviously been doing something wrong :P But seriously, I dont rant about members here, I have a sounding board elsewhere for that too.x

[Bellatrix]

Rumors. They will always bend the truth. That's the problem.

Like Chinese whispers. Eventually the story is only loosely based in fact.

That is what is happening here. And I'm growing weary of people basing their opinions on stories and rumors that are barely grounded in truth.

[Pi.R^2]

It hasnt been blown out of proportion....it was two people saying that in light of rumours/what they have seen/heard that we felt a little paranoid, then it was explained to us, then we were no long paranoid so I think thats a bit unfair.
Yeah, sorry, I worded that wrong. I mean that everyone got paranoid (understandably, I know) and that because we had no idea that you guys thought that about us, we weren't able to reassure you, and so there is probably a lot of resentment towards us that didn't need to be there, because there was a widely-held belief that we did something that we did not.

With regards to the spam, I'm talking about stuff a long time ago. It was probably about two years ago at a time when the uni thread was very very busy and often got quite spammy. And that spam did reduce when the group was created.

A lot of the recent spam is actually nowt to do with the people in our facebook group. Again, I feel like people assume a lot of people are in it who are not.

[FabulousMike]

I know right, i'm not even in this Facebook group *sobs*

[Pi.R^2]

This is where it gets awkward. There's a million people who aren't in it, and we tend not to mention it on RYL because that's awkward. I'm only discussing it and defending it because other people brought it up, but I do feel really uncomfortable about doing so.

[FabulousMike]

Hahah I don't care about it, to be honest :P

I already knew about it anyways :P

[Gordon.]

Just wanted to say that I know I have been responsible for memes and maybe over used them sometimes. I have also been rude to some members when I wasn't thinking properly about their feelings but I want to say that I have been trying a lot harder to tone down the memes and I want to be genuinely supportive and open to other members old and new.


This.

& From reading this thread, I feel as if we're trapped inside that many rules about what we should and shouldn't do because it gets on peoples nerves or leaves other members out. For instance, people are saying that the "Say Here" thread is not working as it should. Is there a set way for it to work? If I came into a thread and there was a conversation going on that had trailed off from the thread, I wouldn't feel uncomfortable posting, I'd use my initiative and just post and bring it back to the original topic if I needed to ask something about it.

Everyone deals with things differently and I never really feel intimidated by other 'groups'. In fact I don't even perceive people as in 'groups'. I don't know if that's just something about my personality, but I usually feel comfortable talking to most people regardless of who their others friends are.

People are more sensitive than others, and the forum is never going to be perfect but I obviously would never intentionally offend anyone. At the same time though, I don't want to feel restrained to all of these rules so that I can't post what I need to.

I feel as if we're OVERaware of all of this and it actually makes it harder to post because I'm always wondering if it's going to offend someone or if someone's going to judge me for it or find it annoying.

[griddlebone]

Yeah, sorry, I worded that wrong. I mean that everyone got paranoid (understandably, I know) and that because we had no idea that you guys thought that about us, we weren't able to reassure you, and so there is probably a lot of resentment towards us that didn't need to be there, because there was a widely-held belief that we did something that we did not.

With regards to the spam, I'm talking about stuff a long time ago. It was probably about two years ago at a time when the uni thread was very very busy and often got quite spammy. And that spam did reduce when the group was created.

A lot of the recent spam is actually nowt to do with the people in our facebook group. Again, I feel like people assume a lot of people are in it who are not.

I feel like I should be clear that were not sitting around talking about anyone or saying that youre slagging us off. It wasnt everyone, it was literally a couple of us.We were both aware of the group and we both separately felt like that, I havent spoken to charlie about feeling paranoid about it as far as Im aware. I dont think there is a widely held belief as I havent ever talked about there being a FB group and didnt respond to the person who made me aware of it.

I wouldnt say its chinese whispers either,its based on what I have seen.But Im not going to get into it because obviously the person who got in touch with me doesnt want to be involved.

I think we will differ on the spam thing to be honest!

[griddlebone]

[QUOTE=Stephh;3490013] For instance, people are saying that the "Say Here" thread is not working as it should. Is there a set way for it to work? If I came into a thread and there was a conversation going on that had trailed off from the thread, I wouldn't feel uncomfortable posting, I'd use my initiative and just post and bring it back to the original topic if I needed to ask something about it.

/QUOTE]


There is a set way it should work. It is supposed to be you saying something to someone that you cant say, there isnt supposed to be conversation in that thread, or quoting other peoples posts. Its basically RV in a thread. Thats fine that you would use your initiative but think about it from other members, new members etc who dont feel like they can just jump in.

[Pi.R^2]

I was just saying you, Charlie and the person who was mean to me in my house all thought it was a bitching group, so I worried that more people thought that too.

It's fine to differ on the spam thing, but I just hope you'll take into account that not everyone who you think is in the group actually is!

I'm glad that this discussion has taken place. I feel like it's good to know what people dislike about us. It feels like we still wouldn't be able to come back and say the things that annoy us about the way we are treated on RYL, and that we are being made to feel at fault in all the ways, but I'm happy to change the way I do things in order to please people, because things being less hostile is worth more than me feeling free to post as I wish.

[The One Who]

Quickly skimmed through this thread, but wanted to add my tuppence worth.

1. I agree completely with Tiff, Charlie and Liv. (As per usual, it seems like!)

2. The spam in GC (and elsewhere) pisses me off, to the extent that I'm simply not bothering. Yes, we can ask "well look out quiet it would be", but then the flip side of that is that maybe others would feel more comfortable posting there without having to wade through the spam, or thinking that a thread will just get completely derailed. There have been too many threads where I have looked and thought it'd be interesting, only to get to the end to find it has been completely hijacked.

3. I don't see the need for people to continuously jump in on threads where there has been rule-breaking or similar. A recent one I can think of is a member asking for moderator input. After the first couple of posts which answered their query, it should have been left rather than getting a touch flame-y and just unnecessary.

4. If someone has an issue with me say it to my face/PM box. Have the balls to say something to me rather than bitching behind my back.

5. I think I've addressed everything here I wanted to. To be honest, I don't think anything will come of this discussion since the two camps are so opposed.

[Pi.R^2]

5. I think I've addressed everything here I wanted to. To be honest, I don't think anything will come of this discussion since the two camps are so opposed.
I don't think that's fair. Lana and I in particular have bent over backwards to understand the things that have been said about us and tried to suggest ways in which we could reduce the divide.

With regards to hijacking threads in GC, that is definitely not on, and I don't think I do it a lot, but I know I can get carried away! Would it not be best to report such hijacking? Hijacking is against the rules, so hopefully if it is problem in any particular thread, it can be reported and dealt with so that the thread can get back on track.

[The One Who]

You are two people though, and some of the "worst offenders" (I'm sure they know who they are) haven't been very active on this thread. It would be nice to see their opinion on things.

[Unbreakable.]

You are two people though, and some of the "worst offenders" (I'm sure they know who they are) haven't been very active on this thread. It would be nice to see their opinion on things.


I think the reason for that is that those people are not part of QK and this thread looks like it is about QK.

[The One Who]

I think the reason for that is that those people are not part of QK and this thread looks like it is about QK.

No, this thread is about everyone, not one particular 'group'. At least that was my understanding.

[Unbreakable.]

I meant to say that it might look form the outside as if it is or if you only read the comments about groups. As far as I am aware the people you are likely to refer too aren't considering themselves as part of any group on here.

[Snow White.]

I remember another group having a separate group on facebook in the past.

The say something here to the person you can't say it to thread, kindof implies you can't say it to the other person. But if you're writing messages to them in there then... you can say it to them as you know they will read it. That reads confusing, sorry.

The quoting I guess might cause members who don't get quoted to feel overlooked, like new members who may not understand what is happening.

[Gone.]

I think the reason for that is that those people are not part of QK and this thread looks like it is about QK.
I agree.
Most of the posts in this thread seems to have been targetted at QK.

Also, if you call someone a 'worst offender' they're probably less likely to come forward because they will feel as though they're going to be jumped upon. If they enjoy spamming and they have a different opinion on that, surely that doesn't make them an 'offender' anyway, it just means that they don't think the way that you do?

As an aside, I know of people that have full on bitched about me behind my back (and I was only aware of this because someone had access to that board) and I was very upset by it. I don't like that people are saying that they'd prefer a PM about being upset by something because I did send a PM (early?) last year when I was upset by something and I, and others, were painted as completely horrible people. It's all very well to say that you'd welcome a PM from someone saying that they're upset with you but actually honour that if you say it.

[Pi.R^2]

I think the reason for that is that those people are not part of QK and this thread looks like it is about QK.
This.
Now that we've stopped pansying about not saying who we're talking about, maybe people could be a bit clearer who else they mean? Lana and I are the main ones from our facebook group who spam say here and stuff, and we've explained ourselves and committed to being slightly less annoying. But as Claire said, I don't think it's just us who are considered a 'problem'.

[Snow White.]

Jenna that makes me sad about your not posting freely and being unhappy about how you're being treated. Surely all sides deserve to have their views expressed, including you.

(this references a post half way up, sorry I am on my phone).

[The One Who]

I meant to say that it might look form the outside as if it is or if you only read the comments about groups. As far as I am aware the people you are likely to refer too aren't considering themselves as part of any group on here.

This thread may have turned in to that, but I was under the impression that it is not ONLY about one particular group, but problems generally.

Also, if you call someone a 'worst offender' they're probably less likely to come forward because they will feel as though they're going to be jumped upon. If they enjoy spamming and they have a different opinion on that, surely that doesn't make them an 'offender' anyway, it just means that they don't think the way that you do?

Jumped on? I thought this was meant to be an adult discussion? They may enjoy spamming, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed as an issue, should it? Especially if it is far-reaching, constant and putting people off GC.

I don't like that people are saying that they'd prefer a PM about being upset by something because I did send a PM (early?) last year when I was upset by something and I, and others, were painted as completely horrible people. It's all very well to say that you'd welcome a PM from someone saying that they're upset with you but actually honour that if you say it.

I would, depending on how and what was said.

This.
Now that we've stopped pansying about not saying who we're talking about, maybe people could be a bit clearer who else they mean? Lana and I are the main ones from our facebook group who spam say here and stuff, and we've explained ourselves and committed to being slightly less annoying. But as Claire said, I don't think it's just us who are considered a 'problem'.

There are problems across the board, and like I've said, I thought this thread was more general than simply targetting one group of people. I would rather not name names, especially as they do not seem to be active in this thread, and frankly, I'm sure they know who they are.

[Pi.R^2]

Aimee, I do feel attacked and I'd rather just be a bit quieter than cause a scene. Whether I like it or not, I do not have an input in how RYL is ran, and the people who do don't like the way I post. If I had it my way, Mike could post spam threads, I could troll the say here thread and the uni thread could be about whatever people wanted to talk about, and people who didn't like it just wouldn't read Mike's threads or the uni thread and would just post in say and ignore me. But I don't have it my way, and being the way I am is causing divides so I don't mind changing to make things easier.

[The Herbalist.]

I have noticed, but to me it just seems as if the group is getting bigger and I am the odd one for not being included, which makes me sad because what is wrong with me! :(





I didn't even know about this group and many people don't. That doesn't make us feel any better. :)

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

I assume everyone is in the QK? I don't know if that's the case but that is what I assume.

[Gone.]

Jumped on? I thought this was meant to be an adult discussion? They may enjoy spamming, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed as an issue, should it? Especially if it is far-reaching, constant and putting people off GC.
Yes, I agree.
But wording it as 'worst offenders' can mean that people will think they're going to end up getting upset. If it's an adult discussion that means accepting that there are two sides to this debate - or, several sides - and you've already made an assumption by calling them the 'worst offenders'. You could have asked for people more involved or for people who have a different opinion to yours to come forward.

[Pi.R^2]

The QK thing is confusing! There's a very small amount of people in a facebook group of the same name. But there are many people who talk about QKs or who have QK in their signature. I am at the point where I have no idea who is being talked about anymore hence I've been careful to say "the facebook group" and not QK, as it is ambiguous!

[FabulousMike]

I'm guessing i'm one of these evil 'worst offenders' that have been mentioned so before I head off and have one of these life things I feel i must put my point forward.

Yes, I do do a lot of spamming, yes, I do use a lot of meme's, yes, I probs do get on a lot of people tits but what of it? If i'm not breaking any rules what's the problem? And if I am breaking rules than report my arse and i'll happily take the points.

There is an ignore button and a block button go forth and use it.

I would say i'm going to suddenly stop being me and stop posting the way I do but i'm not, that's me, I post the way I want to post and the way it helps me and in a way it cheers people up.

That's right, when I spam I don't just spam for the hell of spamming, threads in GC actually help me stay sane, without them I would be in a lot worse place than I would be now.

There have been times i've been on the verge of killing myself but the only thing that has stopped me is spamming in GC and having a laugh and all that, so no, I don't do it just to get on peoples nerves etc etc.

Ok, I think i've said what I have to said, take it how you want.

I'm out of here :)

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

Aimee, I do feel attacked and I'd rather just be a bit quieter than cause a scene. Whether I like it or not, I do not have an input in how RYL is ran, and the people who do don't like the way I post. If I had it my way, Mike could post spam threads, I could troll the say here thread and the uni thread could be about whatever people wanted to talk about, and people who didn't like it just wouldn't read Mike's threads or the uni thread and would just post in say and ignore me. But I don't have it my way, and being the way I am is causing divides so I don't mind changing to make things easier.

If it helps, I also feel bad because I just cannot like and think and join in the way you guys do - I feel like I'm one of the only ones who doesn't appreciate your sense of humour and things. I'm sorry that no one else has bothered to input on anything and it's been you and Lana explaining things, because that's not entirely fair.

[The Herbalist.]

I've read through the entire thread and still do not know what QK is, what it means, what it is, why people want it on their signatures and what it does when it's there. and I've been chatting here almost three years and am active on the forum.

Also, when you are lonely and feel like "spamming", how is it different to post in active, existing threads and get replies? I do not understand why people create threads to post a single funny photo or just ask how everyone is (there are MANY threads already about that)... I don't get why people don't post on existing threads when they are lonely and want people to talk to them... :/

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

I'm guessing i'm one of these evil 'worst offenders' that have been mentioned so before I head off and have one of these life things I feel i must put my point forward.

Yes, I do do a lot of spamming, yes, I do use a lot of meme's, yes, I probs do get on a lot of people tits but what of it? If i'm not breaking any rules what's the problem? And if I am breaking rules than report my arse and i'll happily take the points.

There is an ignore button and a block button go forth and use it.

I would say i'm going to suddenly stop being me and stop posting the way I do but i'm not, that's me, I post the way I want to post and the way it helps me and in a way it cheers people up.

That's right, when I spam I don't just spam for the hell of spamming, threads in GC actually help me stay sane, without them I would be in a lot worse place than I would be now.

There have been times i've been on the verge of killing myself but the only thing that has stopped me is spamming in GC and having a laugh and all that, so no, I don't do it just to get on peoples nerves etc etc.

Ok, I think i've said what I have to said, take it how you want.

I'm out of here :)

Yes, there is an ignore button. But I shouldn't be forced to ignore entire boards. Also you don't need to be so defensive and so... angry, we're having an adult discussion about this and so far it's been very level headed and
mature.

As I've said before, I do not expect you to change your posting habits. I do not run your life or RYL. All I want out of this thread is if you maybe take a look at how you are posting and consider other people's points of views.

[Pi.R^2]

I explained what a QK actually was in post 71!

[Snow White.]

I didn't realise most of the people replying here on behalf of the QK were part of it to be honest.
But then my memory fails me a lot.
I guess I don't look at people and wonder what group they are from either, I just think "oh there's username."

[snailonvalium]

I still have no idea who qk'ers are but this thread turned from "constructive comments" about the board,to what has seemingly become lets bitch about groups we (personally)have a problem with.

A lot of you have mentioned hijacking in threads,to me this has turned into that. The last few pages (when.viewed on tapatalk) are people all talking about a group that half the people on ryl don't know exists.
It just looks like a load of teenage bickering from where i am.
You're never all going to agree,same for.the boards,people are never going to agree on how things go,or who's posting most or who's getting most replies.
Last year the ed board had one big clique,in a few months people will be complaining about another.

/rant

You can't stop people making friends with other people,I've made friends with people on another board irl,the difference seems to be that on that board people don't care about there being groups of people who post and reply to each other because any new person is welcomed(or old person)...there is no bitching and rarely any drama.

Probably why spend more time there,than here.

[The Herbalist.]

I explained what a QK actually was in post 71!

Must've missed that but I've read the thread and still have no idea. Sounds like some weird organization... why not just be friends? No need to name things... naming things and making them out to be this big secret thing is what makes people feel excluded and bitter I think...

[The Herbalist.]

I guess I don't look at people and wonder what group they are from either, I just think "oh there's username."

I agree! I wasn't even aware that RYL seems populated with little named groups... it's weird. It's like RYL is divided into provinces.

EDIT: As a disclaimer if I'm coming across as or sounding rude, I am not. I've read 8 pages of thread not knowing what the heck everyone is on about and kind of feel like an utter n00b for being blind/left out of all these things, so naturally I am curious...

[FabulousMike]

Yes, there is an ignore button. But I shouldn't be forced to ignore entire boards. Also you don't need to be so defensive and so... angry, we're having an adult discussion about this and so far it's been very level headed and
mature.

As I've said before, I do not expect you to change your posting habits. I do not run your life or RYL. All I want out of this thread is if you maybe take a look at how you are posting and consider other people's points of views.

Not the entire board but the threads you don't like. I'm not being defensive and angry, i'm actually in a very happy mood right now, Was just trying to get my point across as it was asked for as i'm one of the 'worst offenders'.

I'll take a look at how i'm posting, the past few days i've recived quite a few hate messages regarding this so I must be doing something wrong and I will look at myself.

[Gordon.]

I guess I don't look at people and wonder what group they are from either, I just think "oh there's username."

[Gone.]

Must've missed that but I've read the thread and still have no idea. Sounds like some weird organization... why not just be friends? No need to name things... naming things and making them out to be this big secret thing is what makes people feel excluded and bitter I think...
The name QK arose because (I think) I posted QK on the Uni Student Thread and explained that it was a sideways ninja. Everyone ended up liking the sideways ninja and we soon put it in many of the posts and in messages to each other as a colloquialism. As we grew closer, we just used QK as a kind of name? It wasn't created to be exclusive or bitter, it just happened and new/different people were always welcome. I don't think that QK should be needing to be so defensive when people are saying that they want to talk about general groups on RYL. We aren't dividing RYL into 'provinces', there's no need to be sarcastic, we just enjoyed the little QK and ended up using it a lot. That's how it happened, from what I am aware.

[The Herbalist.]

I wasn't being sarcastic at all :/ just wasn't aware. I don't think it's unnatural for long time users to feel a bit left out when they've been coming here so long and nobody has ever even mentioned it or any other groups to them... it's not malicious.

[griddlebone]

I was just saying you, Charlie and the person who was mean to me in my house all thought it was a bitching group, so I worried that more people thought that too.

It's fine to differ on the spam thing, but I just hope you'll take into account that not everyone who you think is in the group actually is!


I do take it into account yep!Its very rare I do anything about spam,I keep hoping itll calm down on its own.x

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

I still have no idea who qk'ers are but this thread turned from "constructive comments" about the board,to what has seemingly become lets bitch about groups we (personally)have a problem with.

A lot of you have mentioned hijacking in threads,to me this has turned into that. The last few pages (when.viewed on tapatalk) are people all talking about a group that half the people on ryl don't know exists.
It just looks like a load of teenage bickering from where i am.
You're never all going to agree,same for.the boards,people are never going to agree on how things go,or who's posting most or who's getting most replies.
Last year the ed board had one big clique,in a few months people will be complaining about another.

/rant

I'm actually quite offended that you find me trying to have a mature discussion about/with a group who knows they exist and are quite prominent is teenage bickering. I am not a teenager. I am not bitching, I am explaining how sometimes I find them intimidating, as by request from them and the OP of this thread. If no one talks about it, the gap between "us" and "them" will get bigger and bigger, and there will be a bigger fall out unless we have this discussion. I for one am glad that Jenna and Lana have taken the time to reply, have this conversation and explain their actions from their point of view, and I have learned a lot.


You can't stop people making friends with other people,I've made friends with people on another board irl,the difference seems to be that on that board people don't care about there being groups of people who post and reply to each other because any new person is welcomed(or old person)...there is no bitching and rarely any drama.

Probably why spend more time there,than here.

Again, I don't give a crap about who is friends with who. It happens, it's life. People make friends, people spend more time in the company of people that they prefer. This is not what I have a problem with. I have a problem, as I have explained about 3 pages ago, with the fact that they seem very banded together and larger than life, and very in your face.

There will always be bitching and drama here. People are unwell, people take things the wrong way because text has no tone, and some people just start **** for the sake of it. If you like your other forum so much, go stay there.

I want to fix this problem, or at least give a damn decent reason as to why it needs to be fixed, or at least understood. I like RYL, I don't want people to feel threatened and intimidated by accident.

Everyone in this thread has been polite, open minded and mature about this entire discussion, and it is now descending into pot shots and emotional drama, and this is not what we need from this thread.

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

Not the entire board but the threads you don't like. I'm not being defensive and angry, i'm actually in a very happy mood right now, Was just trying to get my point across as it was asked for as i'm one of the 'worst offenders'.

I'll take a look at how i'm posting, the past few days i've recived quite a few hate messages regarding this so I must be doing something wrong and I will look at myself.

I can't ignore a thread before you/others have posted on it, because I don't know you're going to do that. I don't like ignoring users because sometimes when it's not spam, you guys have interesting perspectives and ideas to add to the conversation.

[FabulousMike]

I can't ignore a thread before you/others have posted on it, because I don't know you're going to do that. I don't like ignoring users because sometimes when it's not spam, you guys have interesting perspectives and ideas to add to the conversation.

Ok, i'm going to take that on bored and see how I can change the way I am and maybe cut down on the amount of spam I do. I can't promise anything but i'll try.

It's just the way I am, i've always been the "funny guy" (Even when i'm not funny but try to be haha) and never takes anything seriously but I do understand your view points and I take it on bored.

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

That's all I'm asking for! I don't expect you to change your posting habits as I explained before, just a little thinking.

I am highly aware I am one person in a forum of about 7k, one person will not change the world :P

[Bellatrix]

Lol, selfishly I'm wondering what people think about me now that I have a slightly different 'friendship group' than I did when i first joined. :P

[Gone.]

I guess there's a time and a place for spam and it's finding where that is on RYL?

[Gone.]

Lol, selfishly I'm wondering what people think about me now that I have a slightly different 'friendship group' than I did when i first joined. :P
Haha, I wonder the same thing!

But you're awesome.
Just sayin'.

[griddlebone]

I still have no idea who qk'ers are but this thread turned from "constructive comments" about the board,to what has seemingly become lets bitch about groups we (personally)have a problem with.

A lot of you have mentioned hijacking in threads,to me this has turned into that. The last few pages (when.viewed on tapatalk) are people all talking about a group that half the people on ryl don't know exists.
It just looks like a load of teenage bickering from where i am.
You're never all going to agree,same for.the boards,people are never going to agree on how things go,or who's posting most or who's getting most replies.
Last year the ed board had one big clique,in a few months people will be complaining about another.

/rant

You can't stop people making friends with other people,I've made friends with people on another board irl,the difference seems to be that on that board people don't care about there being groups of people who post and reply to each other because any new person is welcomed(or old person)...there is no bitching and rarely any drama.

Probably why spend more time there,than here.


I feel like you are seeing this from a different angle than everyone else. Its not about bitching, its about people being truthful about how they feel concerning certain groups. Would you prefer us to not say anything and let resentment fester?Thats what has been happening so far and its not healthy for anyone....its important for everyone to be honest about their feelings.

Its offensive for you to call it teenage bickering....as far as I am concerned everyone has conducted themselves very well and this discussion hasnt turned into flaming hell that needs locking.

[offlineforever]

On the 'inside joke' side of things. I'm pretty sure if someone wanted the joke explaining to them, people would be happy to explain it to them.

For example. A lot of us say 'buffet time!' or something similar. This actually stemmed from Jenna having a buffet at her house for her 21st birthday and an old RYL memeber saying that they thought you only had buffets at funerals. For some reason at the time we all thought it was hilarious and latched on to saying 'BUFFET' whenever a friend said they where dead in a jokey manner etc, just to try and raise someones mood if they have been down.

Not going to lie, this thread is actually starting to make me feel a little uncomfortable. It feels like it is going round in circles and getting nowhere.

However this is my problem, not anyone elses. As such, I am not going to comment on here any more.

[Gone.]

I feel like you are seeing this from a different angle than everyone else. Its not about bitching, its about people being truthful about how they feel concerning certain groups. Would you prefer us to not say anything and let resentment fester?Thats what has been happening so far and its not healthy for anyone....its important for everyone to be honest about their feelings.

Its offensive for you to call it teenage bickering....as far as I am concerned everyone has conducted themselves very well and this discussion hasnt turned into flaming hell that needs locking.
I agree.

[FabulousMike]

I feel like you are seeing this from a different angle than everyone else. Its not about bitching, its about people being truthful about how they feel concerning certain groups. Would you prefer us to not say anything and let resentment fester?Thats what has been happening so far and its not healthy for anyone....its important for everyone to be honest about their feelings.

Its offensive for you to call it teenage bickering....as far as I am concerned everyone has conducted themselves very well and this discussion hasnt turned into flaming hell that needs locking.

For once like ever, I actually agree with you Liv.

[The Herbalist.]

Hopefully this isn't too off topic but I guess I have never understood inside jokes. I do have them with people but if we laugh about it it is in private. I've always felt outwardly expressing inside jokes makes others who don't understand uncomfortable so I keep things like that to myself. But that is just me so please be gentle...

Also, I agree with Liv. Well said

[Gone.]

Hopefully this isn't too off topic but I guess I have never understood inside jokes. I do have them with people but if we laugh about it it is in private. I've always felt outwardly expressing inside jokes makes others who don't understand uncomfortable so I keep things like that to myself. But that is just me so please be gentle...
That's fair enough. I don't think that 'inside jokes' are said with the specific intention of making others uncomfortable, they are just said because they fit the moment.

[Buttons.]

I'm getting bored of people saying "I'm not talking about any clique in particular". It's kind of annoying.

See, I think there's a big difference between a community coming together and deciding on rules, and a community coming together to discuss how they don't like certain people and how they feel alienated by them. Like, I didn't like the fact that when we started getting old London meets going again a few years ago and 'older' members were just like 'eww, new members, ceeb for that', and then when they finally started attending meets they sat at a separate table and didn't really talk to us. However, that's the way they choose to behave and I felt excluded and upset but so what? They weren't breaking any rules towards me, that's just the way the clique mentality worked at the time. What do you suggest we do? Force members to like every other member, to talk to every other member? To carefully make sure that they equally distribute their time between every single board and every single member so as to make everything fair? I was going to say that this sounds like primary school politics, but even at ten years old I was told by my teacher that it was OK if I didn't want to play with a certain person on the yard every day.

I think it's arrogant and wrong of people to challenge a certain group's dynamic, but go ahead and do it if you want but as a top tip, I imagine they'd take it better if they were challenged politely. Saying "I think your friendship group is pathetic" isn't the greatest way to get a discussion going.
I know this was pages ago but just wanted to reply, politely.

When I said I don't mean any individual clique I genuinely meant it, I'm not singling anyone out, I have seen many cliques come and go and see little to any point singling one out.

I disagree with that attitude at a London meet it isn't helpful and I'm sad to hear that that has happened.

Personally I don't see how politely challenging is arrogant or wrong, I know when I've been in cliques sometimes we have been unaware how certain things come across and so and so forth and although none of us particularly wanted to hear it it was useful seeing things from another's perspective even if we didn't agree with them.

The last thing I want to do is offend or upset anybody, but I just wanted to clarify one or two things.

Now the stuff below is a little more personal:

A small add on as well, if I am the RYLer in question about the 'disgusting' comment I'd just like to say that if I said that a) I apologise, that was rude b) I think it was regarding comments about a particular member that upset me and c) not an excuse and I should never have come when I was that ill but I really was in a pretty messed up head space, and I know that people around me down here both friends and professionals have unfortunately born the brunt of my mood which is really truly terrible of me and I am working on it. I'd also like to add both here and in rant threads/wherever I would strongly appreciate people PMing me about any issues, rather than posting in public about it.

*really quite worried I'm going to get jumped on here*

[The One Who]

Yes, I agree.
But wording it as 'worst offenders' can mean that people will think they're going to end up getting upset.

Note that it was put in "scare quotes". I was not out-and-out calling them that, but I could not think of a better term.

I'm guessing i'm one of these evil 'worst offenders' that have been mentioned so before I head off and have one of these life things I feel i must put my point forward.

Yes, I do do a lot of spamming, yes, I do use a lot of meme's, yes, I probs do get on a lot of people tits but what of it? If i'm not breaking any rules what's the problem? And if I am breaking rules than report my arse and i'll happily take the points.

There is an ignore button and a block button go forth and use it.

First of all, no one said evil, and I resent the inference. Secondly, why should I, or anyone else, be forced to ignore entire boards? There is also the fact that the spamming is not contained to the one, single thread, which would be easy to ignore, if it wasn't for LFV, and so there is no way to know which threads are going to be over-run. This is also true of threads that disintegrate into nothing but spam, when they could have been interesting.

Just because something isn't against the rules, it doesn't mean that it doesn't annoy a lot of members, and something that should be looked at. As ADULTS, we shouldn't need to have rules for everything. Some things should just be forum and social etiquette.

I can't ignore a thread before you/others have posted on it, because I don't know you're going to do that. I don't like ignoring users because sometimes when it's not spam, you guys have interesting perspectives and ideas to add to the conversation.

This.

[The Herbalist.]

That's fair enough. I don't think that 'inside jokes' are said with the specific intention of making others uncomfortable, they are just said because they fit the moment.

That is also fair enough. :) I know people don't use it to make others uncomfortable... I think because I feel so strongly about it that is how I always see it, but you're right.

[squirrelspit]

For example. A lot of us say 'buffet time!' or something similar. This actually stemmed from Jenna having a buffet at her house for her 21st birthday and an old RYL memeber saying that they thought you only had buffets at funerals. For some reason at the time we all thought it was hilarious and latched on to saying 'BUFFET' whenever a friend said they where dead in a jokey manner etc, just to try and raise someones mood if they have been down.


I had wondered about this! i thought it was a whatsit where the letters stand for words.

My favourite i came up with was
Because
Uber
Fat
Females
Eat
Treats

I dont think i have a particular group here. And im glad this conversation is helping people, however,i dont think i have much else to add as it is reading in a slightly 'us against them' kind of way, and i dislike that when so many of the people posting are dealing with so much **** in their personal lives.

[Gone.]

I had wondered about this! i thought it was a whatsit where the letters stand for words.

My favourite i came up with was
Because
Uber
Fat
Females
Eat
Treats
I love this.

Elijahbear, I think that, also, people use inside jokes if they feel insecure about themselves? I know that I have - albeit unintentionally but subconsciously intentionally - used inside jokes to prove that not everyone hates me. Does that make sense or just sound very emo? :P

[snailonvalium]

I feel like you are seeing this from a different angle than everyone else. Its not about bitching, its about people being truthful about how they feel concerning certain groups. Would you prefer us to not say anything and let resentment fester?Thats what has been happening so far and its not healthy for anyone....its important for everyone to be honest about their feelings.

Its offensive for you to call it teenage bickering....as far as I am concerned everyone has conducted themselves very well and this discussion hasnt turned into flaming hell that needs locking.

You're right,Im seeing this from a different angle,my post wasn't meant to be one that offended people but that doesn't make my comments any less valid.
The thread started off as post a comment/post an example of things to try change that. From where i am looking in it *does* look like bickering,yes you're airing it all out but rather than just outright say which people you have a problem with,its all cloak and dagger.
If i were new(or any of you were),which Im not and came to post in this thread as a fairly new member thinking of something they'd like to see on the board,would they not be put off or intimidated by what's currently going on in here?
How is that different to some of the complaints already mentioned here?

[The Herbalist.]

Elijahbear, I think that, also, people use inside jokes if they feel insecure about themselves? I know that I have - albeit unintentionally but subconsciously intentionally - used inside jokes to prove that not everyone hates me. Does that make sense or just sound very emo? :P

It makes sense, just don't think I've ever been able to or in a position to do that

[snailonvalium]

I'm actually quite offended that you find me trying to have a mature discussion about/with a group who knows they exist and are quite prominent is teenage bickering. I am not a teenager. I am not bitching, I am explaining how sometimes I find them intimidating, as by request from them and the OP of this thread. If no one talks about it, the gap between "us" and "them" will get bigger and bigger, and there will be a bigger fall out unless we have this discussion. I for one am glad that Jenna and Lana have taken the time to reply, have this conversation and explain their actions from their point of view, and I have learned a lot.




Again, I don't give a crap about who is friends with who. It happens, it's life. People make friends, people spend more time in the company of people that they prefer. This is not what I have a problem with. I have a problem, as I have explained about 3 pages ago, with the fact that they seem very banded together and larger than life, and very in your face.

There will always be bitching and drama here. People are unwell, people take things the wrong way because text has no tone, and some people just start **** for the sake of it. If you like your other forum so much, go stay there.

I want to fix this problem, or at least give a damn decent reason as to why it needs to be fixed, or at least understood. I like RYL, I don't want people to feel threatened and intimidated by accident.

Everyone in this thread has been polite, open minded and mature about this entire discussion, and it is now descending into pot shots and emotional drama, and this is not what we need from this thread.


So who is the "us"? Since i felt i didn't fit with either side,id put my p.o.v across and it was just that,it wasn't meant in an offensive way.
But Point taken,I'll beggar off to my other forum and leave you all to go round in circles.

[PassedExpectations]

do people feel that discussion on this particular clique topic is going to move forward anymore? i'm glad that everyone could stay relatively calm and polite, i'm really proud of you for all that, because when i started the thread i was concerned that if this came up, it would turn into a full out war *star stickers to everyone*

if not, i invite people to bring up other issues they have with ryl (not particular members) and brainstorm ideas of how to make those better. i really liked what someone said about us being adults and that we shouldn't need rules for everything, we should just have etiquette. i tend to think similarly but think of the "culture' we have here, and how to influence it...

[Unbreakable.]

lol Charlie, that is brilliant!

About hijacking/spamming of threads: I personally find it helpful if I get a little reminder that I am doing something that people might find hurtful as I am derailing their thread. I don't think I am doing that a lot but it has happened. Just sometimes it is hard to tell if changing the topic is acceptable or not, I've seen a number of threads where the OP didn't mind at all and joined in whatever it was the topic was changed to. So whenever that happens and people are having an issue with it I'd appreciate it if people would post something along the lines of "can this please go back on topic?", I know it is done sometimes already, but mostly with support threads, hardly ever in GC.
I never mean anything by going off topic or joining an off-topic conversation. I get kind of carried away I guess. So a polite reminder will usually make me either comment on the original topic or (if I don't have anything to say about things) back out of the thread. And I think that is what a lot of people feel like. Another possibility would be to actually report people, I am sure that at least the majority of people would get the message if they got warnings for hijacking.

I am someone who feels that as long as nobody complains about it things are alright. Like with the conversations in Say Here: I figured people would complain or maybe report me if they felt it was annoying them. But as nobody ever did I felt that people probably don't mind.

[griddlebone]

There have been complaints,but a lot of them are informal (not PRd) and for whatever reason some people would feel intimidated if they posted asking for the thread to stay on track. But now I have mentioned it hopefully it will go back to what its meant to be for :) x

[Unbreakable.]

There have been complaints,but a lot of them are informal (not PRd) and for whatever reason some people would feel intimidated if they posted asking for the thread to stay on track. But now I have mentioned it hopefully it will go back to what its meant to be for :) x


Could people be encouraged to PR things when they make informal complaints? Though I know the mods are ALL the busy as it is!
I think it was you posting the rule about hijacking in one thread not too long ago? While at the time I found it a little harsh it was very effective and as far as I can tell people made an effort to go back to discussing the original topic again. Little reminders help and while I can only speak for myself I think that the majority of people would don't mind as long as it's done politely.

[griddlebone]

You're right,Im seeing this from a different angle,my post wasn't meant to be one that offended people but that doesn't make my comments any less valid.
The thread started off as post a comment/post an example of things to try change that. From where i am looking in it *does* look like bickering,yes you're airing it all out but rather than just outright say which people you have a problem with,its all cloak and dagger.
If i were new(or any of you were),which Im not and came to post in this thread as a fairly new member thinking of something they'd like to see on the board,would they not be put off or intimidated by what's currently going on in here?
How is that different to some of the complaints already mentioned here?

Im not being cloak and dagger, I dont have a problem with a particular person I have mentioned the things that annoy me as have other people.

For a lot of people it isnt one person, also have you ever stopped to think about how someone would feel if everyone had an issue with them? Say for example there were 15 people who had an issue with Charlie, I cant imagine she would feel that awesome if she was reading this thread and everyone was saying how everything she does pisses them off.

Also its not about individuals or their personalities, its about things that people do, thats not clique specific, its about behaviour that people find annoying and so on.

As most people know I constantly remind people to think about how new members would feel, however in this case I dont understand why it wouldnt be obvious to new members that we are trying to solve something that has become a big issue to a lot of members. As I said in my last post, what would you have us do?Let it fester?


I dont understand the 'how is that different' comment, what do you mean?

[The One Who]

So whenever that happens and people are having an issue with it I'd appreciate it if people would post something along the lines of "can this please go back on topic?", I know it is done sometimes already, but mostly with support threads, hardly ever in GC.

If it was my thread, I'd say, although if I came back after a few hours to find a page or two of spamming, I'd probably just go "sigh, ffs" and let it die its death/delete it. It's not really fair on the mods to have to go through and delete posts which aren't specifically breaking rules.
If it was someone else's thread, I wouldn't feel comfortable asking people to stay on topic, since it's not my place to say so. It might also just increase the spamming, or descend into an argument. When Liv did it, it came from a mod, and so would possibly get a different reaction than if I said something.

For me, there is a difference between a thread organically and naturally evolving and developing into something different, and a thread becoming a spam-war between a small group of people. The former I am totally fine with, it is the latter that irritates me.

[griddlebone]

Could people be encouraged to PR things when they make informal complaints? Though I know the mods are ALL the busy as it is!
I think it was you posting the rule about hijacking in one thread not too long ago? While at the time I found it a little harsh it was very effective and as far as I can tell people made an effort to go back to discussing the original topic again. Little reminders help and while I can only speak for myself I think that the majority of people would don't mind as long as it's done politely.

I find its a lot of members who come into chat who will informally complain and I do encourage people to PR but its not always effective.

Yes that was me, the thing is I know its effective but I do hate to feel like Im being the bad guy and pissing on peoples bonfires. Its something I should be used to but not always!

Was it harsh because of the way I said it or because I said it at all? I tend to be quite informal in chat when I tell people to stop general chatting in 4 so maybe Im not as formal on the forum as I should be, I dont know....its hard to remember to do everything right :P x

[griddlebone]

If it was my thread, I'd say, although if I came back after a few hours to find a page or two of spamming, I'd probably just go "sigh, ffs" and let it die its death/delete it. It's not really fair on the mods to have to go through and delete posts which aren't specifically breaking rules.
If it was someone else's thread, I wouldn't feel comfortable asking people to stay on topic, since it's not my place to say so. It might also just increase the spamming, or descend into an argument.

I would agree with this.x

[The One Who]

Im not being cloak and dagger, I dont have a problem with a particular person I have mentioned the things that annoy me as have other people.

Also its not about individuals or their personalities, its about things that people do, thats not clique specific, its about behaviour that people find annoying and so on.

Exactly. And that is why I'd prefer to not name names, as it becomes about the person, rather than the action/behaviour.

[Unbreakable.]

Liv, I think I was mostly being sensitive and taking it personal at the time. Right now I think it was a good and legit move. A few of us got carried away and I'd rather have people tell us to stay on topic then complain about us while we will never know how people feel about it. One of my thoughts was indeed that things tend to be less strict in GC due to the nature of the board. But I think you were very right to make people aware of what they were doing in that thread.

I can understand the point of people not bothering with threads that have gone off topic for more then a few posts. I also see how people would think they would get a negative reaction. Just unfortunately I don't have any other suggestions how to deal with the issue.

[PassedExpectations]

i personally don't feel like PRing lots of things is effective, because I've found that a lot of issues can be handled without needing the mods. for instance, a lot of "rule breaking" that i see (and i'm mostly on the support forums, not general) is by new members who don't know how things work, or by someone who is really upset, and all that is needed is a gentle reminder. if we PR everything, i feel like it turns the mods and normal members into police, and causes friction, and excessive work for the mods... perhaps it would be helpful if we tried to teach people a little script to use when they want to remind someone of rules, so that it doesn't seem so personal, and regular members are more empowered to speak up respectfully when something like hijacking has happened

[Gordon.]

What is PR? Just wondering!

[Unbreakable.]

Then again I've seen such reminders turn into full-blown dramaz. There are things like people posting numbers etc where telling the person that it's rule breaking might help. But sometimes people feel attacked and get defensive.

[Unbreakable.]

What is PR? Just wondering!

Post report (I think). It's when you use the report button next to a post to let the mods know a rule has been broken.

[The One Who]

Then again I've seen such reminders turn into full-blown dramaz. There are things like people posting numbers etc where telling the person that it's rule breaking might help. But sometimes people feel attacked and get defensive.

Exactly. If the first person to reply responds with a polite and helpful reminder of the rules it's fine. But when the next three, four, five posters all post and lambast the original poster it is unnecessary.

If there is rule breaking (like numbers) I would post to tell the thread starter, as well as PRing the post, as that way I can be sure the post will be edited if the thread starter doesn't. If that makes sense.

[PassedExpectations]

maybe it would help to tell people that if it has been said once, they don't need to chime in with it again?

i'm sorry if any of my ideas are stupid, i really am trying i swear. let me know if i am wasting time

[The One Who]

TBH, I don't like the idea of yet more rules, more guidelines and of telling people what to do/what not to do. Some things should just be common sense. Although RYL is a public forum, it is a forum for us all, and consideration and general etiquette should be a part of that. But that sort of thing comes from individuals, not from the top.

[griddlebone]

Then again I've seen such reminders turn into full-blown dramaz. There are things like people posting numbers etc where telling the person that it's rule breaking might help. But sometimes people feel attacked and get defensive.

I made a thread a while ago called 'escalating posts' where I asked people why they PRd a thread and then replied saying the same thing as a lot of times it blows up and then gives the mods a lot of work....its quite an interesting read!x

[Gordon.]

TBH, I don't like the idea of yet more rules, more guidelines and of telling people what to do/what not to do. Some things should just be common sense. Although RYL is a public forum, it is a forum for us all, and consideration and general etiquette should be a part of that. But that sort of thing comes from individuals, not from the top.

and thanks Alpha :)

[PassedExpectations]

i wasn't thinking of it being a rule. i was thinking of it being a suggestion for people. like in school when they try and teach people effective ways to communicate. it doesnt' mean that everyone HAS to do it, but it means that people at least have an idea of how to if they want. like, i think i remember there being a sticky a while ago about effective ways to ask for support and to give support. no one was forced to follow it, but the information and tips were there for people who wanted to

[griddlebone]

Exactly. If the first person to reply responds with a polite and helpful reminder of the rules it's fine. But when the next three, four, five posters all post and lambast the original poster it is unnecessary.


I find this is very very common, if one person has said it I never understand why other people say the same thing!x

[Bellatrix]

For a lot of people it isnt one person, also have you ever stopped to think about how someone would feel if everyone had an issue with them? Say for example there were 15 people who had an issue with Charlie, I cant imagine she would feel that awesome if she was reading this thread and everyone was saying how everything she does pisses them off.

this is what this thread feels like, though =/

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

I can honestly say I don't have a problem with one specific person, otherwise I wouldn't have commented because it would have been obvious.

[snailonvalium]

this is what this thread feels like, though =/

This is what it looks like.

I tried twice to say it had gone off track.

If the people who have problems with other people pm them when they notice these things happening,you wouldn't end up with a thread like this,where it does like like things have been left to fester for far too long.

Im not siding with one side or the other,where as the majority on this seem to be,that's why i commented,to offer a different perspective,maybe i shouldve chosen my wording better,its something for me to think about when.i post replies.
Though i do draw the line at basically being told to pee off somewhere else just because i offered my view.
Very welcoming.

[griddlebone]

this is what this thread feels like, though =/

But is hasnt been person specific has it?I understand where youre coming from but I dont think that was the intention.x

[PassedExpectations]

i think the discussion on cliques has worn out, and isn't going to get anywhere farther at the moment. i'd really appreciate it if we could refocus..

[griddlebone]

Im not siding with one side or the other,where as the majority on this seem to be,that's why i commented,to offer a different perspective,maybe i shouldve chosen my wording better,its something for me to think about when.i post replies.
Though i do draw the line at basically being told to pee off somewhere else just because i offered my view.
Very welcoming.

There are no sides, thats the whole point of this thread, to stop there being sides.

Who has told you to pee off?

[griddlebone]

This is quite irritating....to me it seems that we are making head way, there has been discussion which has brought out issues, some false information has been rectified and were trying to meet a consensus that works for everyone.

Whats the point in cutting off the conversation when we are trying to understand each other and come to some sort of resolve? If conversation stops now it will just go back to how it was, its important to see things through to a solution otherwise what was the point of the last 9 or so pages?

[PassedExpectations]

im sorry. just never mind. it just seemed like the same conversation had gone on for 6 or 7 pages now. and generally once conversations get that long, they reach a stagnant point i think where things keep going around and around. that is just my impression though, and i apologize. i was not suggesting that this should never be talked about again, i was just suggesting that a break from the conversation might be good for a while. continue on though

[Bellatrix]

I can honestly say I don't have a problem with one specific person, otherwise I wouldn't have commented because it would have been obvious.

it's not one person. it's a group of people. And it's clear who they are.

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

Yes, but the problem is not with the people themselves, but their actions. I agree with Liv, I feel this has gone very well and everyone has listened and we are all talking about it like adults and we're making some headway.

It'd be a shame to stop it now.

[PassedExpectations]

ok, i take back what i said. keep going on. i'm sorry that i've annoyed people

i like what has been said about separating people from actions.

i see from the bottom that there are people reading this thread who haven't said anything at all or in a while. please feel free to join the conversation.

[Epicene]

So, I'm going to go ahead and respond to this because as a relatively new member who is outside of any 'cliques', as it might offer a different perspective.

Personally, I don't mind about anyone posting memes/using private jokes/referring to real life events provided that:
- Other members are made to feel welcome
- People are clued in on jokes/events if they ask for clarification
- Support is offered as well as just using the place to chat and catch up

As far as I've seen, everybody on the board who appears to be affiliated with any particular group of friends seems to do this. The only thing I find slightly awkward is that if a new member becomes friends with someone within a clique, is there then an obligation to get to know the rest of their friends? I've tried to retain a degree of anonymity on these boards and for me, the idea that revealing my name to one person means that other people find out makes me a little uncomfortable.

But, aside from this, I can't see any problem. As long as people remain respectful, everyone should have a choice in how they interact with the site. Thousands of people must register to RYL and lurk, and that is their choice. If others want to post frequently, meet in real life and make RYL somewhere to socialise as well as seek support, then so be it.

Before joining, I personally found it really helpful to be able to get an insight into peoples' sense of humour and interests. It made me feel more aware of the type of site I was joining, and that has been far more helpful to me than a closed board on one that is overly prescriptive.

[The One Who]

But is hasnt been person specific has it?I understand where youre coming from but I dont think that was the intention.x

People seem to want to make it about particular people and a particular group, for some reason. Apparently this thread is now only about the so-called 'QK' clique.

i think the discussion on cliques has worn out, and isn't going to get anywhere farther at the moment. i'd really appreciate it if we could refocus..

I'm sure you are just trying to move the discussion on (I agree that this will probably end up going around in circles), but since we are being all open, some of your posts are coming across a little patronising. It's as if you are a teacher trying to control a class of normally unruly children who are managing to do their work for once. I don't think anyone needs to be thanked or praised for managing to hold an adult discussion, for example.

[griddlebone]

Yes, but the problem is not with the people themselves, but their actions. I agree with Liv, I feel this has gone very well and everyone has listened and we are all talking about it like adults and we're making some headway.

It'd be a shame to stop it now.

Im quoting in agreement but Im basically agreeing with you agreeing with me Agreeception!x

[offlineforever]

Clare, not meaning to be argumentative or anything, but tbh, this did turn into a discussion about 'QK' because this group seems to be the one the issues at the moment are arising from.

That said, I am aware that this conversation has happened a few times when there have been groups that seem to be overtaking RYL.

At the end of the day, that is the dynamic of the site. It seems like this isn't the first time, nor will it be the last that people have issues with these groups.

I personally feel that this thread has helped me see how people percieve this group, and I am unhappy that it took this for me to see how people feel about us. It shouldn't have come to this, but it did. I for one intend to learn and move on from it.

When I first joined RYL I felt intimidated by groups and their in-jokes. And tbh, I do still feel like an outsider to RYL even though I do try to contribute to the site as much as possible. I think my issue here though is my own problem and not anyone elses.

[The One Who]

Clare, not meaning to be argumentative or anything, but tbh, this did turn into a discussion about 'QK' because this group seems to be the one the issues at the moment are arising from.

When myself, and others, have tried to discuss other groups, or other related issues it is stopped with "they aren't a part of QK" or "this is about QK". So is it that people like myself are focussing on that one group, or is it because that group won't let it move away from them onto a broader discussion?

I don't think keeping all the focus on one group of people, or in this thread a few people who seem to be talking for the group, is particularly helpful. It does come across as targeting one group, when it doesn't have to.

[whirlpools]

And tbh, I do still feel like an outsider to RYL even though I do try to contribute to the site as much as possible. I think my issue here though is my own problem and not anyone elses.

I think this is a really interesting point, and one I keep thinking about when I consider replying to this thread, which I'm a bit nervous about for my own reasons so bear with me as I'm not sure how to word it.

Basically I really relate to this point, and as someone who isn't part of any group or clique, need to recognise my own part in that. I don't think I've ever got the feeling that I would be unwelcome if I were to try and engage in any RYL group, but for my own reasons which aren't specific to RYL but rather my whole way of interacting with people, I haven't made the effort.

So what I am, perhaps contentiously, saying, is that I don't think it's just up to the 'cliques' (hate that word, but you know what I mean) to work to involve people who aren't involved, but up to those people themselves to pluck up the courage to interact.

That said, it's warming to hear that people want to generally involve each other and to think about how to help those more nervous people to do so. As I do empathise and recognise how frightening and difficult that can be to come into an established group.

[offlineforever]

When myself, and others, have tried to discuss other groups, or other related issues it is stopped with "they aren't a part of QK" or "this is about QK". So is it that people like myself are focussing on that one group, or is it because that group won't let it move away from them onto a broader discussion?

I agree, it does keep coming back to that, but I ponder if the issue here is that QK members feel like they are being attacked for being a member of an outside group? That is how I feel about it tbh. But Also, I can see why people have issues with it.

And I am now going to drop the QK issue as it is going in circles.

I've read this thread from start to finish. I'm a bit confused and bemused, have no idea who the QK are, or anything about any of them. For what it's worth, I felt this summed it up.

With anything like cliques, as long as no rules are being broken, then any issues remaining are the responsibility of the person and the person only, not the other people.

I too felt like an outsider when I arrived. I worked my arse off, became known for support and felt, at that point 'included' because I was 'needed'- that was all hollow because I was just 'used' by people. I was still an outsider. I felt like an outsider when I wasn't a mod, when I was a mod, after I was a mod (both times). I would consider myself disliked/hated and I know I am, and have never been, part of any clique.

But all those are my issues, and not anyone elses (again, as long as no rules have been broken). It's my issue if I don't like a person, it's their issue if they don't like me. If I don't like a person, what do I do about it? Generally, I avoid them, because my dislike of them is my issue, not theirs.

Feeling lonely, isolated, a outcast, and more, is going to be so prevalent on a site like this because they do often come hand in hand with depression, but that doesn't mean that the situation is what and how you feel. That is 'just' how someone feels, and will likely differ from what someone else perceives.

So, in these situations, it's often a case of looking internally and working out what's going on and what we, as individuals, can do to change the situation we find ourselves in and how to make it better for us. That's not easy, but we are responsible only for ourselves, not others.

Over the years I've worked hard and tried to change the things I've felt needed changing (things like 'bully to avoid being bullied', upping the support posts on forums/people who weren't receiving much, working to improve the support department WAY in the past), and it never worked- both due to me (often due to me) but also due to circumstances as well. Now I just accept how things are. when I want to, I come on and post, and when I don't, I trundle off, look but don't sign in, visit other places where I feel welcome, feel comfortable and dislike things less- ultimately though I will always come back to RYL, I would guess, because, despite it not being as it was, and me not feeling as I did about here, it is still 'home'. All swings and roundabouts.

And- this is totally off topic, but I swear earlier on in the thread it mentioned about just posting on the thread to remind people to stick to topic or get back on topic, and that was sort of done here, in that it was an effort to diffuse a situation, and the person was shot down in flames.

And I am not entirely comfortable with posting this so I'll probably have a panic and delete this in a bit.

I agree with all that Dash has said here too actually.

[The One Who]

i'm being thankful because i was scared that i would start a war and it would be all my fault. fighting upsets me, and i'm thankful because since i'm already feeling ill, and insecure, and indecisive, i don't think i could handle arguing right now. i'm sorry it is coming across as patronizing, i was trying to be nice. i was under the impression that it was positive to point out what people were doing well. i think i'll just leave the thread now if no one minds.

This is why these discussions always fail... People get defensive, people don't like discussion and eventually things will die off.

[snailonvalium]

There are no sides, thats the whole point of this thread, to stop there being sides.

Who has told you to pee off?

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

That post is still there. You don't need to screen shot it. I didn't tell you to piss off, I said if you prefer another forum, go stay there.

[Pi.R^2]

My favourite i came up with was
Because
Uber
Fat
Females
Eat
Treats
This is beautiful Charlie!
On the topic of inside jokes. I don't see them as inside jokes, they're just jokes that not everyone knows yet. Though of course I don't expect everyone to find them funny, and I respect anyone's right to think I'm the least funny person on earth. Like there was that thing about 'gooby plz' that people always used to say and I had no clue what it was, but I just asked, and then I didn't quite get it, so I didn't really laugh, but I didn't think it was an inside joke.
I've seen ceeb and buffet and NPD crop up all over the place from loads of people who weren't there at the origination of such jokes, which is why I don't feel like it's a little cliquey in-joke. I've explained QK, ceeb and buffet about 167 000 times (approximately :p), and I think what defines an in-joke is if someone asks what it means and they just get told they won't understand or "oh, it's just an in-joke".

Although RYL is a public forum, it is a forum for us all, and consideration and general etiquette should be a part of that. But that sort of thing comes from individuals, not from the top.
But you are essentially saying that you don't think people should be allowed to post stuff that you don't like? So it's not really for us all, it's just for people and things you approve of.

So, I'm going to go ahead and respond to this because as a relatively new member who is outside of any 'cliques', as it might offer a different perspective.

Personally, I don't mind about anyone posting memes/using private jokes/referring to real life events provided that:
- Other members are made to feel welcome
- People are clued in on jokes/events if they ask for clarification
- Support is offered as well as just using the place to chat and catch up

As far as I've seen, everybody on the board who appears to be affiliated with any particular group of friends seems to do this. The only thing I find slightly awkward is that if a new member becomes friends with someone within a clique, is there then an obligation to get to know the rest of their friends? I've tried to retain a degree of anonymity on these boards and for me, the idea that revealing my name to one person means that other people find out makes me a little uncomfortable.

But, aside from this, I can't see any problem. As long as people remain respectful, everyone should have a choice in how they interact with the site. Thousands of people must register to RYL and lurk, and that is their choice. If others want to post frequently, meet in real life and make RYL somewhere to socialise as well as seek support, then so be it.
I'm glad you feel like groups on RYL are welcoming. And for the record, I never told anyone your name, don't worry! I think most people round here know the value of privacy and wouldn't disclose what they knew to be sensitive information to others, even their close friends :)

So what I am, perhaps contentiously, saying, is that I don't think it's just up to the 'cliques' (hate that word, but you know what I mean) to work to involve people who aren't involved, but up to those people themselves to pluck up the courage to interact.
I agree with this. Although I would like to try to work on ways that we can make shyer people feel less afraid to post!

I also think that people in cliques shouldn't be shouldered with the responsibility of all the exclusion issues on RYL. I'd still like to make a better effort at replying to support threads of people I don't know, but I think there's things that every single member can do to be more welcoming, regardless of if they're in a clique or not.

[griddlebone]

I also think that people in cliques shouldn't be shouldered with the responsibility of all the exclusion issues on RYL. I'd still like to make a better effort at replying to support threads of people I don't know, but I think there's things that every single member can do to be more welcoming, regardless of if they're in a clique or not.

I agree with this, its not one persons fault or one groups fault or whatever it is, there is things that everyone can do to feel more involved/less left out. Thats why I think this thread is good, Im sure its not just me that has thought about how to change/improve.x

[griddlebone]

Also, as someone who was around when there have been big cliques before, it has always taken either a thread like this or some form of massive drama for the dynamic to shift for everyone, sometimes we need something to happen to be able to look at stuff objectively, to see the things that we have done wrong and those things that we could be more careful about in the future. I find drama always seems to lead to insight and thats one of the reasons why,compared to a few years ago there is a lot less drama.x

[The One Who]

But you are essentially saying that you don't think people should be allowed to post stuff that you don't like? So it's not really for us all, it's just for people and things you approve of.

Not at all. It's about consensus. I know I'm not the only one to feel and think the way I do. That's the way most of what can/can't be posted has been decided, I think. I would love to say some things, but can't because it goes against the rules.

[makedamnsure]

For me my main "issue" with RYL is that "popular" members (and I am not talking QK or any other group here, more individuals) get more replies to support threads.

I don't much care what goes on in GC, spam or not so long as its not hurting/mocking anyone. But I do think it must hurt sometimes for your thread to get no replies, or just one person repeatedly replying, and another support thread to get several pages. It also kind of puts more pressure on that one person to keep replying than if there's a few replies.

I know to some extent it is natural. And I know that I personally need to make more effort at this too, as I'm far more likely to reply to threads of people I know, just because even if I have no advice, I will want to leave hugs and support. Whereas other threads I don't always know what to say, or have no practical advice to give so I don't say anything. I suspect though that most people, me included, could formulate some kind of helpful reply to most threads.

And so maybe everyone can make more effort to reply to threads when they feel able regardless of who has posted them? Some people are already doing this I know.

I've also sometimes thought that "serious" threads can sometimes once the initial crisis has past become more chatty and I'm not always sure if this is a good thing or not. For me personally if I post in serious it's because I'm in a lot of distress, and once that distress has waned a bit I would most likely let the serious thread die and perhaps start a new thread in general or mental health or wherever it fits best looking at ways to move forward. I don't know if others find this a problem though.

There are also some lovely lovely members who I have noticed consistently offer a lot of support so a huge thank you to them.

[yourockmysocks]

I've also sometimes thought that "serious" threads can sometimes once the initial crisis has past become more chatty and I'm not always sure if this is a good thing or not. For me personally if I post in serious it's because I'm in a lot of distress, and once that distress has waned a bit I would most likely let the serious thread die and perhaps start a new thread in general or mental health or wherever it fits best looking at ways to move forward. I don't know if others find this a problem though.


I don't like this because it does take away from other threads on the support boards from people who actively need help with a problem.

I think the spam has gotten much better on the general boards. If people still think that it is a problem, then the best solution really would be if people want to post spam and memes than that should all go in fun and distractions, not general chat.

[GlitterTrashDoll]

I haven't posted in here yet as I've been reading this thread on my way to and from work so I apologise if I talk about something from earlier - I just haven't had time to put my two cents in.

I just want to say that I love that everyone is having an adult discussion and getting everything in the open and explaining how they feel about things. I don't mean this in a patronising way at all (sorry if it sounds that way though!)

One of the things that does annoy me is the spam. Personally I feel that the spam threads, such as the one on GC/the chatty chat thread such be in Fun and Distractions as essentially that's what they are and where 'room' threads have been in the past where there's been a group who post a lot (for example a few years ago we had the MCR lovers thread which was a 'clique' - and I was a part of - but that was in Fun and Distractions) which is where I would kind of expect that type of thread.

Now don't get me wrong - I like memes - but not all the time and post after post of them as response to threads is annoying (I admit I have done it in the past but not as excessive as it has been recently). I think there is a time and a place for them.

I'm not annoyed with spam/memes/In jokes in General Char as much as I am when it spreads in to the support boards. I understand that you might be replying to a friend or such who will understand the meme or joke or whatever but I don't think it's appropriate there. It has its place for it and that place is not the support forums. It could also discourage new members from posting or asking for support when they see the spam/memes/in jokes in the support forums as they might think the same thing will happen to their support thread. I know it more than likely wont turn out like that but it could seem like that to someone who isn't that well aquatinted with RYL and the kind of humour or such that members have.



I do agree its annoying when a 'popular/well known' member of a group/clique/RYL gets more replies/hugs and a new or less known member gets a few at best. I can see how that would make someone feel - like they were less important - for lack of a better word - than others and that could discourage them from posting in that forum/at all in the future as they might see there no point because they won't get a response. This could also stop them from posting in longer/group threads when they see a popular or more well known member has posted in that thread so they might automatically assume - because of what they have seen around forums - that there post will be overlooked in favour of other posts/members. I know this wouldn't be how it would be but that's how it could come across. So I think we could benefit if we make sure we try and reply to threads which haven't got that many responses rather than going straight to posts from people we know or have a few replies already. I lone I haven't beeen doing this as such but it's something I've been thinking about (plus the previous thread in GC in the recent few days about rude posts has just got me thinking about things!)

With PRing - unless it's blatant rule breaking that I'm always not too sure whether to report something or not because I don't want to seem like I'm beig silly about something small or whatever. (My brain fails me for words tonight!)

There was some other things that I wanted to say but I forgot what it was! Plus I'm replying to this on my phone and its annoying me so ill return when I go on my laptop later and can remember what I wanted to post (it was something about QK but I can't remember what, and I know that the conversation has moved on since then, but as I said I've been at work all day so only just had chance to read and reply to this thread.)

[Snow White.]

But, aside from this, I can't see any problem. As long as people remain respectful, everyone should have a choice in how they interact with the site. Thousands of people must register to RYL and lurk, and that is their choice. If others want to post frequently, meet in real life and make RYL somewhere to socialise as well as seek support, then so be it.



(emphasis added)

I wholeheartedly agree! Thank you for posting this.

[Snow White.]

Thus far the discussion has seemed mostly one-directional 'please think/change your posting habits' so I was very happy to see this crop up, and I think it is a REALLY important point.


Basically I really relate to this point, and as someone who isn't part of any group or clique, need to recognise my own part in that. I don't think I've ever got the feeling that I would be unwelcome if I were to try and engage in any RYL group, but for my own reasons which aren't specific to RYL but rather my whole way of interacting with people, I haven't made the effort.

So what I am, perhaps contentiously, saying, is that I don't think it's just up to the 'cliques' (hate that word, but you know what I mean) to work to involve people who aren't involved, but up to those people themselves to pluck up the courage to interact.



This to me is about respect, and I sense Tiff alluded to a similar thing earlier. It's respectful I feel because it takes into account both parties, as it were. The 'clique' but also the person finding it uncomfortable/annoying. I think its particularly relevant as many have expressed not being upset by this, or not knowing what it was even about, so maybe its not as global as this thread portrays it.

[Alone and Scared]

I used to post for my own support, but I don't anymore as I don't feel that I will get replies.... There does seem to be a higher reply rate for some people. That's my feeling though and others may feel very differently about it. There are always going to be people who are more popular, unfortunately that is the way of life.

[ChocolateMarvel]

If it helps, I also feel bad because I just cannot like and think and join in the way you guys do - I feel like I'm one of the only ones who doesn't appreciate your sense of humour and things. I'm sorry that no one else has bothered to input on anything and it's been you and Lana explaining things, because that's not entirely fair.
I tried to explain things. And found 'no one else has bothered' a bit rude as that implies people have read and just not bothered replying whereas this is probably not the case. But its like you mentioned, we cannot get tone and other non-verbal cues from text which can be a bit confusing.


You can't stop people making friends with other people,I've made friends with people on another board irl,the difference seems to be that on that board people don't care about there being groups of people who post and reply to each other because any new person is welcomed(or old person)...there is no bitching and rarely any drama.

Probably why spend more time there,than here.
I actually kind of agree with what you said here and I think the perhaps what you are saying isn't comig across how its meant hence people getting a bit stressy in responses!

Must've missed that but I've read the thread and still have no idea. Sounds like some weird organization... why not just be friends? No need to name things... naming things and making them out to be this big secret thing is what makes people feel excluded and bitter I think...
On FB you have to give a group a name. To be fair, the idea of a secret is that people don't need to know about it and granted it doesn't always work that way... I don't think anyone has made it out to be a 'big secret thing'.

Not the entire board but the threads you don't like. I'm not being defensive and angry, i'm actually in a very happy mood right now, Was just trying to get my point across as it was asked for as i'm one of the 'worst offenders'.

I'll take a look at how i'm posting, the past few days i've recived quite a few hate messages regarding this so I must be doing something wrong and I will look at myself.
Mike, I must say I don't tend to read threads in GC where I guess you spam most but I know that you are one of the most supportive members on the site and that you try and make people feel welcome so actually I for one think you should carry on as you are!

I had wondered about this! i thought it was a whatsit where the letters stand for words.

My favourite i came up with was
Because
Uber
Fat
Females
Eat
Treats

I dont think i have a particular group here. And im glad this conversation is helping people, however,i dont think i have much else to add as it is reading in a slightly 'us against them' kind of way, and i dislike that when so many of the people posting are dealing with so much **** in their personal lives.
Is it an acrostic? I think thats the word! :p Either way its beautiful! I also enjoy your wisdom about people dealing **** in personal lives.... I think often in heat of moment people forget that!!

I don't think I have anything else to add at the moment!

[Gordon.]

acronym!

[Muir]

I haven't read this whole thread because it's long (I'll go back & have a read later though). I've been around RYL quite a while, I'm online a fair bit although not really active so I wanted to give a kind of outside perspective.

It seems like 'in-jokes' are a big issue. It reminds me of school really, there were people I was friends with and two of them had these 'in-jokes' and particular interests that no one else liked but they talked about it constantly. If any of you seen it happening at the lunch table in school you would probably think that it was rude and feel left out. On the other hand those people just happened to be really interested and excited about certain things and most likely would have been happy to explain about it more and probably wished that the others would take more interest in the things they liked.

This website has gotten so big that it's really going to be impossible to prevent some people feeling left out. The people who are in groups with people they are comfortable with need to try and reach out to people who might be a bit quieter or maybe new members trying to find their place on the site. The people feeling left out need to learn to make more of an effort to talk to others. I think it's something that many members on here need to learn to do in real life also, people wont include you if you sit in a corner and don't talk. You will not be included if you come onto a website and don't post.

I don't think anyone is intending to upset anyone else. But it's pretty simple, if you want to be included well then include yourself in the conversation, join in. If you don't want to feel like you are excluding other people then maybe save the jokes for times when you are just chatting with those people, or threads relevant to those people, but not like every thread - but also don't then decide to only post in certain threads where you talk to those friends, make an effort to expand a bit too & talk to other people. It takes an effort from both sides instead of just complaining.

Also, from a support thread point of vie where people don't feel supported. Maybe for every support response you make to a friend you could try making one for someone you don't know so well. Also, if you don't have many friends, try offering some support and maybe you will make some.

[Freedom Fighter]

I am of the minority opinion that most, if not all, threads over 1000 pages need to be killed with fire. I can't think of one positive thing that has come out most of these super threads. They often are hotbeds of groupthink, self appointed leaders, bullying, railroading, and in-jokes that the group thinks need to be spread to every thread on the boards (They don't).

I don't think this thread will end up going anywhere, but kudos to you for trying to be helpful. I think generally people on RYL would be better off if they spent far less time on RYL. People get so emotionally invested in this website it is sick and twisted.
As someone whos been here for like....8 years (as has crys) its easy to tell! Its not a judgement....if you want to spend your life here thats your decision,but it isnt healthy....just like its not healthy to revolve your life around any one thing.
QFT. It would pay off if a segment of the "power users" of RYL spend part of the time they would be on this site doing something irl.

(Source: The amount of time I spend on the internet and my general happiness are inversely proportional)

[Snow White.]

I disagree completely about the benefit of threads with a lot of pages. I know when I was at uni and had a panic about exams or something it helped enormously to go into the uni student thread (just one example) and share my concerns and be encouraged.

I often do the same by popping into the big comfy couch for example. I am not frequent in either of these threads but always get support for brief things that would not require their own thread.

So, there is one positive thing for you.

And Tom unless you know what the real-life lives are like of that so called power group I actually think that is an unfair assumption. Unlike you, I, Crys and Liv (all whom have been or are moderators), this website is social and, I expect, tied in with people from real life (and not a place you have to be on guard in case you need to mod, or filled with responsibility). But even if not, I just feel that is a strong judgement about people when you don't actually know what their lives entail.

[Leo Pard]

I'm gonna lie and said that I read all of those many pages since I last posted thoroughly. I didn't. Too many words make my brain hurt.

My feelings on this are that it is a good disscussion to be having and I hope that people can talk on board what everyone is saying and continue to be adult about it. I also agree lots with Tiff* and Liv and Charleh but not because they are awesome (okay, that's a lie too) and they have managed to say anything and everything that I would try too and fail miserably at saying.

I would also like to add that if anyone has a problem with anything I say, please PM me as it is very likely that I meant it in an entirely different way and was probably not even talking about what you thought I was. Again with the I AM A NICE PERSON thing.
I don't really have more too add but yeah.

[snailonvalium]

That post is still there. You don't need to screen shot it. I didn't tell you to piss off, I said if you prefer another forum, go stay there.

Some of us only have limited access to computers and don't have the energy to delete half a quote.
Go stay there to me,means the same thing.

[The Herbalist.]

I'm teetering slightly in agreement with Tom about mega threads. On all the forums I've been on, I've never seen so many! I've always felt too intimidated to post in any of them either way and it is hard to post a reply and have to dig through three pages to find it the next day because people post over you or ignore you... on some forums there would be ONE mega page in the general forum for general chat. It WAS indeed mostly used by groups who wound up getting a bit alienated from the rest of the forum because they only seemed to prefer interacting with each other and when they interacted with others, they had to make all these in jokes and stuff... I guess I've just never personally understood it. I'm the type of person who befriends people from anywhere... I don't feel I am associated to a "group" at all. I just talk to anyone who is nice to me... so it is weird to see people sort of separating themselves from the big group that is RYL into little subgroups. Maybe it's because I've never had a big group of friends or never been part of one (not in an emo way) that I don't fully understand the dynamic or how it works.

[Pi.R^2]

There's lots of people who feel too intimidated to post on RYL at all, or people who feel too intimidated to go into chat. Doesn't make chat or RYL fundamentally flawed.

I also befriend people from anywhere. I have friends from the uni thread, but I'd say I probably have considerably more friends from RYL who are NOT part of the uni student thread. And I imagine that would be the case for many people. In fact, I can think of about ten people off the top of my head who never really posted anywhere on RYL until becoming involved with the uni student thread, and who now post all over the place, having become a bit more confident from the friendly uni thread environment.

[The Herbalist.]

There's lots of people who feel too intimidated to post on RYL at all, or people who feel too intimidated to go into chat. Doesn't make chat or RYL fundamentally flawed.

Does not mean we should make it harder for them when we have the ability to make it easier for them.

[Snow White.]

I don't mean to be contrary, but I am one of these people who feel intimated when posting my own thread on the forum but find it easier to post on the longer threads. I guess there is less attention paid to me and if things go wrong in that thread it won't be my fault.

So in that sense, the longer threads do make it easier for me to get that support I otherwise may not be confident enough to post about.

Again, I don't mean to be argumentative or contrary, but unfortunately my opinion and experience is different, but might be that of others so I thought I would share a different view. I expect many have different views on this, horses for courses and all that. We will never please all, it should be about creating a compromise I suppose instead.

[Shenanigans]

I'm not a "popular" member or a "power user" or part of a group so I'm not sure how much my contribution is worth. But I've been following this thread a while now and feel like a creep for lurking and not contributing.

I don't find group threads intimidating, just tiring. I tend not to post in threads with more than a couple of pages worth of replies because (to be perfectly honest) I can't be arsed scrolling through pages and pages of posts to gain the gist of what the thread is about/where the conversation has gone from etc. I also assume (more with threads in GA but to some extent other more "support" group threads) that the thread has become more directed to the frequent members of said thread, rather than a place for newcomers to parade in with their ideas or problems. That's just a general assumption and not something I can base on fact. I can see how they are intimidating to some people, especially if you are in a delicate state. I think when you are in a group and know the people it is very hard to see that group as anything but supportive and lovely (which I'm sure everyone in them is) but from an outside perspective the group appears tight-knit and threatening. You upset one, you upset them all sort of thing? And for many people RYL is somewhere that they use as a safe environment and that threat of ostracisation is very upsetting. It's not a problem that should be set down entirely at the groups door, I think it's a problem with the assumptions made about these groups as well as perhaps some actions (not all) that reinforce these assumptions (such as the in-jokes and such.)

However, I don't feel these things detract from my experience on RYL. I don't see group threads pushing support threads off the boards but I think perhaps it can become upsetting for people who have posted (especially in support boards) where a group thread such as The Uni one continually get updated and replied to where their thread posted hours ago has no replies. However, this isn't something I have noticed recently.

I guess I really didn't have a lot to say....

[snailonvalium]

I actually kind of agree with what you said here and I think the perhaps what you are saying isn't comig across how its meant hence people getting a bit stressy in responses!




Thanks,i maybe should've explained a little more x

[The Herbalist.]

Again, I don't mean to be argumentative or contrary, but unfortunately my opinion and experience is different, but might be that of others so I thought I would share a different view.

I don't find you to be argumentative. :) Like I said earlier, I don't have much experience with friends and friends in large groups so my experiences are probably a bit different. I'm posting here to share my opinion, yeah, but to also try and better my understanding towards people who like big threads and the like, if that makes sense.

[Snow White.]

That does make sense. And I have done the same and learned about the opposite feelings to mine, also, which was helpful.

[offlineforever]

Compared to what it used to be like though, the uni thread has calmed down a lot. Sometimes people don't post in it for days, other days they do.

It is the same with some of the other popular 'room' threads.

Saying that, I too find some room threads difficult to post in, but again, this isn't the fault of RYL but myself. I suppose the reason I find the uni student thread so useful if because I set it up. But the first posts does try to let people know we try to welcome everyone to the thread and include them in discussions etc.

That was a slight tangent.

[griddlebone]

I've also sometimes thought that "serious" threads can sometimes once the initial crisis has past become more chatty and I'm not always sure if this is a good thing or not. For me personally if I post in serious it's because I'm in a lot of distress, and once that distress has waned a bit I would most likely let the serious thread die and perhaps start a new thread in general or mental health or wherever it fits best looking at ways to move forward. I don't know if others find this a problem though.


I think this too and I think its quite a big problem and something that needs looking into.x

[offlineforever]

For serious threads, woould it be possible to move them to general once the inital crisis is over, or would that be too problematic as you would have to PR it to the mods?

[griddlebone]

I think it would be a problem because of the triggering nature of some of the thread. Also moving it would just push down other threads which would be a bit unfair.x

[offlineforever]

That did cross my mind after I posted that!

[Bellatrix]

Can we create a sub-forum of serious called 'resolved' or something - where the main triggering issue is resolved and people are just offering continues support.

Maybe. I don't know.

[griddlebone]

Thats not a bad idea!Apart from the headache of there being another sub forum, but it might help!xx

[Muir]

Instead of a sub forum, is it possible to put in like a label (like the trigger labels) so the post can be edited to have a *Resolved* label in the title?