Ban on drug and alcohol numbers?

[random.swirls]

Hi all

Currently the rules ban number relating to weight and self harm but don't ban numbers relating to drugs and alcohol.

This is an odd anomaly that has been brought to our attention recently and as a result the mods have decided to see what the members think about whether we should introduce a ban on these numbers.

Attached to this post is a poll so we can have an overall idea of what members think however, when considering whether to implement this then we will pay more attention to the posts made.

[Bleeding Angel]

I dont feel any real ban for alcohol numbers as i think its pushing it, after all its something thats legal that people like to do and might like to say to someone if they have had a glass or two of wine (but then how do you define alcohol numbers??), maybe drugs as it kinda ties in with the numbers thing with pills and i assume its illegal drugs.

[talaiporia]

Surely drugs ban would fall under medication/OD ban? I mean, there would be some overlap at least. I haven't noticed a problem with alcohol numbers mentioned, but I can see the advantage of a ban.

[Bleeding Angel]

I think its not just binge drinking though, been plenty of posts where people are having some banter and someone will mention something like (having a bottle of wine/on my second beer/etc), because its something legal and only a minority abuse it its too much to ban it and again its how do you define numbers as in the units or just the general 1 bottle/glass.

[squirrelspit]

im not aure if the same competative atmosphere exists within those that are alcohol dependant/drug dependant.

im not aure someone would say 'that person drinks 8 pints a day, i must be a better alcoholic and drink 12' but im not sure.

When i used to take coke i never felt superior/inferior cos i took more or less than someone else, i just used to feel ****ing **** if i hadnt taken the amount that i needed to send me into oblivion.

its hard to explain. to me self harm andeating disorders seem to be an ourward sign of how you feel inside so the numbers do matter, wheere as drugs and alcoholis just what it takes to put you into nothingness.


so basically, i think its context relevant, and as alcohol is legal, i think its taking it a bit far.

[talaiporia]

Surely just ban anything seen to be tipsharing or glamourising drugs, alcohol self harm then, rather than numbers.

Then, "I've had a glass of wine with dinner." would be okay, but "I've had two bottles of vodka and I'm heading for a third" would not be.

[squirrelspit]

^^ but then how do you define excess? people that dont drink might think a bottle of wine is a lot, where as for aome people its the start of a night out.

[random.swirls]

The thing is the rules need to be clearcut because if they aren't then it's subjective according to the mods which is never good.

I personally don't care as I'm not a big drinker and I don't do drugs so the numbers don't impact on me.

However, this post has come about because we have had a few post reports on this subject recently.

[GlitterTrashDoll]

I think yes depending on the context of which its posted.

I.e it's fine in GC and other non support forums where its a passing comment in a concersation etc as long as you are not glamourising underage or binge drinking. And should not be allowed in support forums where an op is describing a situation etc for example they could say 'I had a small amount of wine' or 'I had a little beer' or 'I had a lot to drink' - I don't think it will change the way members support if they know the exact amount of glasses of wine said person has, all they need to know is they had a little or a lot etc.

On the subject if drugs, I assume we are talking illegal (as numbers are banned on pills etc already) then this should apply to all kinds of drugs too. Again, just say I had a little or a lot. But I think no numbers on the amount of drugs used, as I think it falls under the same category as pills.

[Gone.]

I think that anything glamourising medication and alcohol usage should be banned but not the numbers in themselves. As Charlie said, I don't think that the same competition exists in drinking and drugs that does in self-harm and EDs. If the post is meant to be obviously competitive, then I think there is a problem but simply mentioning numbers is okay, I think.

If a member is underage and drinking/taking drugs then I don't quite know where the line is. I mean, obviously, it's illegal, but we've all been there... so as a passing comment in GC, I suppose it'd be okay, and if the OP is seeking help in a support forum, but not as something negatively portrayed.

[Buttons.]

im not aure if the same competative atmosphere exists within those that are alcohol dependant/drug dependant.

im not aure someone would say 'that person drinks 8 pints a day, i must be a better alcoholic and drink 12' but im not sure.

its hard to explain. to me self harm andeating disorders seem to be an ourward sign of how you feel inside so the numbers do matter, wheere as drugs and alcoholis just what it takes to put you into nothingness.


so basically, i think its context relevant, and as alcohol is legal, i think its taking it a bit far.
This.

^^ but then how do you define excess? people that dont drink might think a bottle of wine is a lot, where as for aome people its the start of a night out.
And this.

I think that anything glamourising medication and alcohol usage should be banned but not the numbers in themselves. As Charlie said, I don't think that the same competition exists in drinking and drugs that does in self-harm and EDs. If the post is meant to be obviously competitive, then I think there is a problem but simply mentioning numbers is okay, I think.

If a member is underage and drinking/taking drugs then I don't quite know where the line is. I mean, obviously, it's illegal, but we've all been there... so as a passing comment in GC, I suppose it'd be okay, and if the OP is seeking help in a support forum, but not as something negatively portrayed.
And this.

[Bellatrix]

I don't think the amount of alcohol and drug consumed is relevant. It's the feeling the person has, or the opinion others hold, over their usage and whether there is a problem or not.

I think like with BMI, the criteria for various 'health levels' (eg, 17.5 = anorexia; 18.5 - 25 for a health weight, 25+ overweight) should be numbers that are allowed to be quoted where relevant, things like alcohol units and what is considered a 'healthy daily amount' should be able to be mentioned as a form of comparison.

SO an individual can think, 'well X is a healthy number of units, and I have been having Y units every day for the past week' but when it comes to posting can just reference consuming 'more than the recommended limit' which is the same kind of thing as on the ED board with saying 'I am classed as underweight'.

[Stellata]

I pretty much agree with Jodie there. :)

[Zedebee]

What Jodie said.

Personally am not 'triggered' by amounts mentioned, moreso other things, which can't be avoided and really you can't get too carried away with rules because it's bad enough in the real world....

[FabulousMike]

I have nothing to add apart from I voted 'no'.

[Rodolphus]

I agree with Jodie also.

The only thing I can think of is that some people may see other people saying they drink X amount, and rationalising their own unhealthy habits with 'well, I drink less so its okay'.

[MissAnonymous]

If its drug numbers then ban them, all drugs are illegal and it's akin to saying how much you have overdosed on in my opinion.

Alcohol is legal, but drinking to excess is very unhealthy, so talking in terms of units in a 'this many is recommended as okay' would be fine, but saying 'I've drunk a bottle of vodka and I'm now cracking open the whiskey, gonna tank up tonight, nothing better than being leggless' would be glamorising and blatantly anti-recovery so should be edited. However, I have not actually seen anyone say something like this, so would a rule be pointless?

Please anyone say if they have come across a problem on the forums, enlighten me :P

[squirrelspit]

does this mean we should also ban people saying how many cigarettes they smoke a day?

[The War Doctor]

I think like with BMI, the criteria for various 'health levels' (eg, 17.5 = anorexia; 18.5 - 25 for a health weight, 25+ overweight) should be numbers that are allowed to be quoted where relevant, things like alcohol units and what is considered a 'healthy daily amount' should be able to be mentioned as a form of comparison.

While I agree with the point you're making, saying things like "a healthy daily amount" is very vague when it comes to alcohol, isn't it? If I were a short, skinny woman, a healthy amount of alcohol for me would be a lot less than if I were a tall, heavyset man. So if I were 6'6" and weighed 250lbs, saying "I had a bottle of wine with dinner" might come across as excessive to some people when it probably isn't for me.

[SavingGrace]

does this mean we should also ban people saying how many cigarettes they smoke a day?

Pretty much this in all.

I don't believe that drug numbers should be allowed but then it is really hard to gauge the numbers in a lot of drugs. As with alcohol, its a case of what I might take or drink in a night may be totally different to what someone else might take. What I think is a reasonable amount could be really excessive or nothing in someone else's eyes.

With medications we can say 'what's on the label is okay,' but Drugs and alcohol don't really come with that label, at least they didn't use to. =)

In terms of someone who is asking for help with these kinds of things, it is all relevant to the person and what is a lot for them, not what is a lot for me so it is really hard to gauge the numbers.

My question is, is it a problem on the boards for people glamorising or competing over amounts taken or are people being super careful lately?

[Eccentrics]

I think it should be done in the same way as numbers of ODs. as in.
I can say I had two paracetomol for a headache.
I can't say I had xxxxx to kill myself.
I should be able to say I'm going out for a pint or two
I shouldn't be able to say I'm going to drink a leter of vodka with these pills.


This. Goes the same for drugs, too.

[Bleeding Angel]

The other thing is how many complaints have their been?

[random.swirls]

Mari there haven't been many but there have been a few in a very short space of time comparing posts mentioning amounts to the ban on numbers for eds etc hence this post.

Reading these comments makes me feel a ban on alcohol isn't workable

[Bleeding Angel]

Yeah i asked because i thought that, i think even with the responses here and they fact most people who have posted so far are against it. I guess another reason is if its is banned its taking the bubble wrap too far because whats going to be next.

[GlitterTrashDoll]

I think we should allow alcohol numbers (unless, if it's breaking rules, obviously) but we shouldn't allow numbers when referring to drugs as it's on par with pills etc.



I think it should be done in the same way as numbers of ODs. as in.
I can say I had two paracetomol for a headache.
I can't say I had xxxxx to kill myself.
I should be able to say I'm going out for a pint or two
I shouldn't be able to say I'm going to drink a leter of vodka with these pills.

^ this.

[Pomegranate]

I really don't see why a ban on alcohol units and drugs is necessary. Pretty much for the same reasons Squirrelspit posted.

I get that the self harm/ED/OD limits are necessary to protect some members from being triggered. But at the end of the day self harm/ED/OD numbers and methods are not talked about that much in public, general spheres whereas alcohol and drugs are spoken about a lot more openly, even in television dramas and don't have the same competitive nature either. If someone on here says I used X to cut because it gives a better Y and I needed Z number of stitches compared to when I used A (I ran out of alphabet letters sorry), then that is totally different to saying 'I drank a bottle of vodka to get hammered'. Everyone's limits are different and to be honest drinking etc is, for better or worse, a part of general culture. You would not see in magazines or on television or even in discussions that 'self harmers or those with disordered eating have found that using X method causes more weight loss/more damage' and for that reason there is an added danger for sites like this because they can so easily become a hub for tip giving and encouraging. It is not tip sharing to say 'I drank X to get drunk' and I also don't think it is particularly triggering (speaking as a borderline alcoholic).

[effervescence]

In my opinion, alcohol is a drug since it is a depressant substance and is open to being abused in the same way as medications and illicit drugs.

Therefore, all numbers relating to drugs and alcohol should be banned. It removes any form of discrimination and makes everything nice and same-y.

[Bellatrix]

I don't see a problem in referring to having a drink in general threads/chat/passing comments. But I think in the drug and alcohol forum it shouldn't be about amount consumed, it should be about it's impact. So I don't think numbers are relevant there.

[The Mad Hatter]

I have to agree drugs yes alcohol no. We are gonna end up bubble wrapping it to much I mean me saying I am drinking a Margirita after work is diffrent from me saying omg I a
Drinking a shot and a bunch of pills

[The One Who]

I always thought drugs were a no-no anyway, perhaps with the exception of talking about prescribed meds, ie. saying "I've been prescribed Xmg of Y drug". Although even if talking about illicit drugs, what is illegal in the UK may not be in some other places.

As for alcohol, what sort of numbers do we mean? Number of bottles? Number of units? Hardly anyone understands or uses units anyway.

I don't think having one rule of one board and another for elsewhere would really work on a practical level, so I think it should be all or nothing. So no 'it's okay to talk about it on GC (which is meant to be non-triggering), but you can't mention it on the Substance board' type rules.

[Bellatrix]

well in the SA section, you're talking about abusing the substance, rather than just using it... so amounts are more 'triggering' there.

[Buttons.]

^ *like* Then again same could be said for self harm and ED consequences. Sort of an ouch that's awful...but I also feel like a failure and should also be doing this to myself.

[Buttons.]

^ Love you :)

[hope51]

Guess another reason is if its is banned its taking the bubble wrap too far because whats going to be next.

^^^ Basically this.

I could maybe nearly understand it if this was a forum to help people with alcohol or drug problems as then yes it might be triggering to a number of people. But then i'm still not sure, as i've never found either triggering and both have been an issue at some point. Somehow it's not the same. i fail with words at the moment so that is all.

[Isoverity]

Never liked bans on words, numbers for most part. Forcing all the ED forum stuff site wide was suffocating imo. Commence tomato throwing *ducks*

[The One Who]

well in the SA section, you're talking about abusing the substance, rather than just using it... so amounts are more 'triggering' there.

That's an incredibly blurry line there. It raises questions how how much of a substance qualifies as abuse (something already mentioned that the quantity will differ per person), or when is it abuse, etc.

Some people have been known to drunkenly post, which technically since they will no doubt have binged on alcohol (perhaps well over the weekly, never mind daily, limits for themselves) that could be classed as abuse and could also be seen as triggering by some.

I agree that it would be nice if people focussed on the feelings and thoughts behind the actions, and that goes for across the forums, but not everyone does.

[Bellatrix]

^very good point

[-Carpe Diem]

Alcohol, cigarettes etc don't bother me. (if its legal basically)
But the illegal stuff can hit me hard sometimes. We have a ban on tools for self-harm and drugs/the amount of drugs are, for many, just another tool if that makes sense?

[Cazki]

I don't really care to be honest. But what i will say is if this was to happen i don't think it would make much difference, also if its banned then other things will want to be banned to. There is only so much you can ban. Otherwise you might as well ban everything.

[Pi.R^2]

so basically, i think its context relevant, and as alcohol is legal, i think its taking it a bit far.
Self harm is also legal though, but we ban numbers for that...

I also wonder if the post reports were made because the people thought the posts were inappropriate or simply because they thought it was against the rules. Like, I PR stuff about numbers with EDs all the time, but that's not indicative of me thinking numbers shouldn't be allowed, it's just because I know it's against the rules and I want to help uphold the rules. So an increase in post reports does not necessarily imply that people think we should start banning numbers with drugs/alcohol, just that they thought that was the rule already and were trying to uphold it.

Additionally, I don't see a problem with a rule being subjective. I have a warning on my profile for joking in general chat that I needed to lose ALL the weight. Now, an anorexic thinking she needs to lose weight is hardly groundbreaking stuff and would be allowed in the ED board, but it was a judgement based on context and it was deemed by the mods to be 'borderline pro' and was removed. I don't see why the same couldn't be applied to alcohol, so the mods make an instinctive decision on whether they think the number is being used in a glamourising or provocative way.

[Intaytia]

Forgive me as I've not read all the replies to this, but I thought I'd give my input.

I voted yes, but now I'm more thinking 'Yes, but...'
As Jenna mentioned, you can't allow all the numbers for alcohol based on the fact that it's legal. Self-harm is legal (here) too, so if we're basing rules of legality, we should be able to say 'I did this last night with X and then I plan on doing Y', as long as it's legal.

As for competition, it was mentioned that people seem to think it's less likely for those involved with drink and drugs to be competitive. I'd like to argue against that and say that a lot of people on this site have addictive personalities and/or low self-esteem, so there's always the risk of them thinking that they're not doing the maladaptive behaviour well enough.

It's hard to define rules but then apply them subjectively, which is why I can understand the reasons for why Jenna's comment about wanting to lose weight was considered to be pro-ana, but at the same time, context is very, very important.

Taking the sentence 'I went out for a meal earlier and had a glass of wine', I would like to think that it would be accepted. It is not promoting or glamourising maladaptive behavior and it is part of what is deemed 'socially acceptable' in many cultures. The only time when this sentence might be a cause of concern is if the author of the sentence is known to be a recovering alcoholic. This is when others on the site can reply and give support, but in this case, I don't feel that numbers are a big issue. The OP will have had alcohol, it doesn't matter about the amount, as it is something s/he still has to deal with. It's just like a recovering self-harmer saying that they've had a tiny slip-up, unless they need to get medical attention, we one the site, do not need to know the exact details.

As for the comments about banning number of cigarettes... for the 5 years I've been here, I've not seen anyone talking in detail about smoking, but maybe I don't interact with the right people. For me, talking about smoking X cigarettes a day isn't something which should be banned, again, it is something which is socially acceptable in many cultures and I think it really would be a step too far to ban that.

We can't completely wrap people in cotton wool. Whilst this site is here for support and a safe place to talk/chill/make friends, people can't hide from the fact that, at some point, you have to interact with the outside, real world.

In short, yes I do think numbers on drugs/alcohol should be banned but within moderation. You can't ban these things completely, otherwise it will come to be that talk of cigarettes/tattoos etc will also be banned. Then before you know it, people will struggle to talk about a lot of things/feel at ease about asking for support.

I think, and hope, that I've made some sort of sense here...

[Sleepless123]

im afraid i havent read all the replies here as my concentration is not good eight now and what im probably going to say is possibly going to be controversial.

Firstly clearly decisions previously have not been based around legality because as said above self harm, suicide and drinking alcohol or having an eating disorder are not illegal but i do not think this is something we need to consider with illegal drugs here.Numbers for problems with things which arent illegal have been banned but for drugs have not.Maybe its an oversight or a strange abnormality but i guess we have to decide if we want to keep it like that.

i do think with alchohol [though not illegal drugs cos of the legality issue] context has to be taken into account if someone is saying 'i went out last night, had a brilliant night with friends and had a couple of G and T's and Vodka's' is different from someone sitting there saying 'ive had 1 bottle of wine and some beer and im now about to start my second lot of wine as i sit here and this is the sixth night this week' and im goinna and its clear they are trying to glamourise it or to use it to harm themselves.i realise these people may be in distress but again it is the feelings behind this that also need to be talked about.They can say 'i have/taken/am taking a large amount of illegal drugs/alchohol' still and they dont have to go into detail.

i realise the rules do have to be clear for mods and this is a really difficult one but i do think context [for alchohol only, no discretion with drug numbers] has to be taken into account.

i have to say when i first saw this thread i left it for a while to reply as it has brought up feelings for me.

i take a large number of over the counter tablets daily.Sometimes sure to harm myself but sometimes also etc cos my mind makes me think if i dont people may get hurt or because i feel im bad and need to be punished.

Why should it be that i taking large amounts of over the counter meds daily can only say that much on the Forum but that those taking illegal drugs or using alcohol potentially for the same reasons can currently say more and give actual numbers?Why should that be allowed and as said above with those taking illegal drugs it is illegal and though i dont think the whole decision should be based on legality why should i doing something not illegal be restricted in what i can post more than they are?Especially when they may be doing it for some of the same reasons.We cant know.

i found it really hard to eliminate numbers from my posts and im sure some with ED's/self harm have not because i want to glamourise etc or i think my situation more important or worthy of attention than others but because it is hard to explain the extent of my situation and in my case how unusual the amounts im taking are [this has been said by medical professionals] without being able to say them.However it is very true that its the feelings that mostly need to be dealt with and discussed although there is obviously the safety risk aspect which i think we should be aware of on RYL when people post [but is not much people here can do and i dont think it means other posts dont deserve equal attention as others may be really striving not to be at physical risk and all posts/problems are important and equal no matter what] and now i have learnt to post without the numbers but still try and get things across ultimately hopefully maybe [though im not always entirely sure] im better off for it.Regardless of whether i am better off i also realise the rule has to be in place for the sake of others and that matters more to me cos i dont want people to be badly effected or at risk by what i post.im sure those with ED's and who self harm also may have found it hard at first.

Why should especially those who REGUARLY abuse alchohol and drugs and post about it in detail [though as said above in this thread i am not someone who has actually seen much of this about] be exempt from the rule and be different from the rest of us.i think it is especially when these things are posted reguarly by the aame people that the rules need to change.

Also i note one person in this thread [sorry i cant remember who] saying theyve been a previous drug user and didnt feel the same competitive atmosphere was around drug and alcohol taking as things like self harm, ovrdoses, pill taking, ED's etc.i totally believe what they say but that doesnt mean this will apply to everyone especially those who come to the board feeling particuarly desperate and then read graphic detail about what these people have or havent taken. These types of posts like with self harm/ED's i feel may also be particuarly triggering to those who are recovering from those issues if they again stumble across such detail on a recovery based site and if it is presented in a context that would not be acceptable for self harm or ED posts.

And there may not be a competitive atmosphere on the board in regards to these issues now and if really isnt any at all then thats great but given previous problems i have seen here with the competition that has existed in other areas [not getting at anyone, im sometimes myself when feeling bad struggled to take responsiblity for not considering becoming competitive in other areas whether a conscious decision or not after reading posts] do we really want the chance for this to occur here to?Now we have tried to eliminate it in other areas.Yes i dont want the rules to become too stringent and stupid - none of us want that but they also have to be fair to people with all problems and if drug and alchohol numbers are being mentioned regularly by using with issues then i think other rules and this is allowed then i think other rules become unfair to other members.

Basically i feel that if a similar post would be edited if it were posted related to self harm or ED then it should be edited from drugs/alchohol at the end of the day.

At the moment i feel that because i have an over the counter medication problem im restricted with numbers ie not allowed to post but if i had suddently changed and had an ongoing problem with illegal drugs i could post them?How is that right?

i hope people understand at least some of what im trying to say even if they dont agree with it!

Sorry long post and rant over.

Just my two pennies worth and probably not very useful.

Love to all.

xx xx

PS im not voting in the poll cos i dont think i can give a straight answer how its worded.If it were my poll i would have two. i would separate drugs/alchohol. i would have 'Should drug numbers be banned' and my personal answer would be yes always. and then 'Should alchohol numbers be banned where members are posting about these in the context of them being a problem/issue or in a way that suggests they are/will effect the person negatively and/or they appear to be trying to glamourise alchohol abuse'. Then my answer again would be yes! And regarding alchohol [as above no discretion on drug numbers] especially if there is clear evidence they are posting numbers on a regular basis and have done so in several posts.

There you go i even managed to come up with an two alternative polls in my rant, sorry! Ignore me.

[Sleepless123]

Oh sorry i didnt see the 'yes but' option so i will vote.

i still prefer my polls! [joke!].

xx xx

[griddlebone]

With the self harm being legal thing....the SH stuff isnt banned because its illegal,its banned because of the triggering content so I dont think the comparison really applies between the two.

[Bellatrix]

Don't really see why people need to state secific amounts of alcohol though. " I had more than I should have" or "I feel i was out of control" are much more useful than "I drank a million bottles of vodka".

Likewise, it should be sufficient to say, 'I have a problem with class A drugs' or, 'I was doing really well and had a slip up with a Class B, help?!'

Just like it's not relevant to declare what tool was used to cut, or how many times a person has purged. The fact is, does that person feel there is an issue, or do they accept other people may think it's an issue.

[HopelesslyLost]

i think we should ban drug number but still be able to tell people that we used either a small or large amount this is only because it hits me in a special place i have watched 3 of my brothers throw away their lives for drugs and i hate when people talk about doing drugs because their doing the same thing

[griddlebone]

Don't really see why people need to state secific amounts of alcohol though. " I had more than I should have" or "I feel i was out of control" are much more useful than "I drank a million bottles of vodka".

Likewise, it should be sufficient to say, 'I have a problem with class A drugs' or, 'I was doing really well and had a slip up with a Class B, help?!'

Just like it's not relevant to declare what tool was used to cut, or how many times a person has purged. The fact is, does that person feel there is an issue, or do they accept other people may think it's an issue.

I agree with most of what you said, I just think that the comparison between alcohol legality and SH legality isnt really relevant to the rules for the site because its not the reason behind the SH censoring.


I dont agree with a ban on drugs/alcohol numbers,I really dont think its a necessary step to take.

[sajhfuahuefghaeg]

i think we should ban drug number but still be able to tell people that we used either a small or large amount this is only because it hits me in a special place i have watched 3 of my brothers throw away their lives for drugs and i hate when people talk about doing drugs because their doing the same thing

but then by that logic, everyone should stop talking about sex because i dont like listening to it.

[Bellatrix]

^ I didn't say they were the same! :P
But yes. I think for some people, drug and alcohol abuse can be competitive. Just as self harm is for some (but not for, say, me...).

[griddlebone]

i think we should ban drug number but still be able to tell people that we used either a small or large amount this is only because it hits me in a special place i have watched 3 of my brothers throw away their lives for drugs and i hate when people talk about doing drugs because their doing the same thing

Sorry but this has hit a nerve with me, that comes across as so judgemental and actually pretty guilt tripping. I dont think you have an idea of how that may possibly stop people reaching out for help with their addiction because of this attitude,not everyone who takes drugs or who has a drug problem is throwing their lives away.

[griddlebone]

^ I didn't say they were the same! :P
But yes. I think for some people, drug and alcohol abuse can be competitive. Just as self harm is for some (but not for, say, me...).

I didnt know who it was,but someone did say it was the same,but as I was responded to by you I assumed it was you!Sorry :] x

[Bellatrix]

No Problem!
Also, I agee with your above post. It is unfair to make a sweeping statement like that. People end up in situations out of their control for many reasons.

[The One Who]

I don't think it's possible to compare self-harm (in a general sense) and substance abuse, or the general use of drugs and alcohol. Technically, an eating disorder is self-harm, but they aren't thought of in the same way. I think the same applies in this case. So we can't say this works/doesn't work for self-harm there the same should apply to something else.

[Leo Pard]

But then by that logic, everyone should stop talking about sex because I dont like listening to it.
Eww. Sex. How very dare you talk about that!
I totally agree with Tiff* though...

Sorry but this has hit a nerve with me, that comes across as so judgemental and actually pretty guilt tripping. I dont think you have an idea of how that may possibly stop people reaching out for help with their addiction because of this attitude,not everyone who takes drugs or who has a drug problem is throwing their lives away.

I also agree with this. So much. Could not have said it better myself.

[Pi.R^2]

Just to clarify, I know that self harm numbers are banned for reasons unrelated to legality I was just pointing it out because Charlie appeared to be using alcohol's legality as a reason for numbers to be allowed to be posted about it

[Leo Pard]

That is not what Charlie was implying at all as she has said...

[Pi.R^2]

As I am aware. I am not saying that that is what she was implying as I too have read her more recent comments explaining what she said. Just that that was how it had appeared at the time of my writing my initial comment.
I was just, as I said, clarifying what I meant in my previous post.

[random.swirls]

Hello

So the mods have been reading the thread and have decided that for now we won't be making any changes to the rules.

The reason behind this is there isn't a huge consensus to change things as the poll is currently split pretty equal.

Thank you for all the opinions

The mods!

[Pi.R^2]

Thanks for the update :) Hopefully this thread will at least make people think about how they use numbers with regard to drugs and alcohol.