SRS BSNS... or is it?

[Pi.R^2]

So I have been PRing the hell out of the srs bsns board recently, and I too am guilty of making threads in that board which are not really serious enough to justify being there, due to it being too serious for GSA but not specific enough for MH, SH or ED.

I do not think I am alone in the feeling that Serious Discussions and Advice is being somewhat misused at the moment. [do feel free to correct me on that assertion!]. An abundance of only moderately serious threads means that acual srs bsns drops quickly to the second page, and i think also trivialises suicide.

I'v discussed the serious board with some members recently and one said that she thought it was somewhere that members should only post threads once or twice in their entire RYL 'career', and for really rather serious issues. And I find myself agreeing with that take on things. Is this how other people feel the board should be used?

Would it possibly be an idea to have another board bridging the gap between General Support and Advice and Serious Discussion and Advice? Like for example threads about being passively suicidal, going through a major life upheaval/family break up etc? If you are in a stalky mood, I would suggest all of the threads I have ever made in serious would be more suited in this hypothetical board I am describing.

As yet I have no suggestions for what such a board should be called. All I can currently think of is 'moderately srs bsns', which wouldn't do at all!

So yeah, thoughts?

[squirrelspit]

it confuses me and ive been here for too many years and have been a mod for umpteen years on top of that.

From my perspective, and i believe from the perspective of all the mods, we agree that yeah, serious should be where you post if you are literally like 'i need to talk to someone right now or there is a massive risk that i am going of off myself'.

But then, thats tricky because its difficult for us to asses what 'serious' constitutes as.
If the most stressful thing in your life is your schooling, it seems a bit unfair to move a thread about that when it is making you feel terrible.

I think as well that the mental health board does not get used enough. It seems to be used for discussion of diagnosed mental illnesses etc, when, in my opinion, it is where all the on going threads about peoples general mental health should be. Even if they are eventually moved there after the initial crisis.
I believe the 'support for' threads should for the most part be in mental health as they tend to document peoples struggles with an on going situation rather than immediate help needed now kind of thing.

I really believe the following would help:
1. if members would read the description of each forum before deciding to post.
2. If members would then look at the 'trigger labels' available for that forum. If you are discussing something that doesnt have a contains label, it likely shouldnt be there. ie: if you write a post in general support and advice and find yourself writing *contains sexual abuse*
3. if members would use the serious discussion board to update one thread about themselves if they are having an especially desperate period of time rather than creating several threads in one board.
4. if members asked for their thread to be moved elsewhere when/if the desperateness of the situation decreases.

Number 3 is not fair on the rest of the community more than anything, it means those that are trying to support end up repeating themselves, it also means that by creating several threads very close together, they are pushing others need for support off the first page.

[squirrelspit]

well.. that was quite a ramble.

[The One Who]

From my perspective, and i believe from the perspective of all the mods, we agree that yeah, serious should be where you post if you are literally like 'i need to talk to someone right now or there is a massive risk that i am going of off myself'.

But then, thats tricky because its difficult for us to asses what 'serious' constitutes as.
If the most stressful thing in your life is your schooling, it seems a bit unfair to move a thread about that when it is making you feel terrible.

As someone who never reads Serious (for several reasons), I agree with this. To me, Serious is 'the suicide board'. I don't think it matters why someone is feeling that bad, it's more the frame of mind that is important.

[Pi.R^2]

Charlie, I only saw your most recent post at first at thought you were talking about me and was like 'pfft, I think I was relatively concise' :-p

I agree with ALL of your points in theory. I just wonder, would the MH board not lose it's quality as being a good place to ask questions about specific MH conditions, if it were to become the main location for 'i'm struggling with being suicidal right now' and 'my family has fallen apart, I'm finding it difficult to cope' threads?

[Pi.R^2]

Oh, and Claire, I agree with you [how unexpected!], though do you consider there to be a difference between passive and active suicidality?
Like, when I was recently in crisis there probably was a risk of me actually offing myself, but most of the time, I kind of want to die, but am not really in danger of acting on that desire, and I would say that only the former would be an issue that should be in the serious board.

[The One Who]

Oh, and Claire, I agree with you [how unexpected!], though do you consider there to be a difference between passive and active suicidality?
Like, when I was recently in crisis there probably was a risk of me actually offing myself, but most of the time, I kind of want to die, but am not really in danger of acting on that desire, and I would say that only the former would be an issue that should be in the serious board.

Batten down the hatches, the world is about to implode! :P

Yes, there is a difference between active and passive, and I would agree that only the former really belongs in Serious. However, at the moment there isn't really a place for those who are passively suicidal to post, as MHD is more about specific illness and medications, and GSA is maybe a bit too happy(?!) for want of a better word for it.

[squirrelspit]

its a tricky one. Mental health is a very slow moving board, the first page covers the last 72 hours activity, i think thats because there are already established thread on some of the 'hot topics'* (eg: theres a Bordlerine thread and a disassociation thread that are massive and used by a lot of people).

i dunno like, perhaps we could do with a sub forum so that there can be a differation (what is the right word??) between ongoing mental health and specific mental illness?

As i said, its difficult to monitor what is classed as being serious without trivialising the board.

Oh, whilst im rambling, i also have a massive issue with people using serious as an extension of the ranting and venting forum where they just ignore any previous well thought out, supportive responses from members and make the rest of their posts within the thread just rants.

*terrible phrasing.

[Bleeding Angel]

I think its unfair to say someone should only post there once or twice in their time here, if people need to post they need to post, but there has to be a limit i think to people posting and people posting a new thread every second day.

I think people need to think about where it needs to go, anything about mental health should be in the mental health board, anything thats not serious and not about mental health should go in the general board and anything that is considered serious or people feeling in desperate need for support should go in serious.

But saying that i have noticed there has been an amount of depression threads in general support.

[Embles]

I think some people use the serious board to kind of go "Look! Look how ill I am! I'm so ill I'm posting in here!" Cue attention, people trying to help, that person realises that they got some help by posting in that board, without realising fully that it is a SRS serious board (through misunderstanding, not reading rules, room guides, etc etc) and the cycle goes on.

Ps. I am NOT saying people in there are attention seeking - I think some people have just fallen into habits of using that board reguarly.

[Bleeding Angel]

Thats why i feel that people should have only one thread going in there at one time rather than making new ones every few days when the old one can be bumped.

[Snow White.]

I kindof dislike the idea that the Serious discussion becomes an only actively suicidal board. I mean, to me it's basically that now, but if you removed the passively suicidal to somewhere else it really is going to turn the whole form into "go to the hospital" type replies, whereas now you have people calm enough to be able to work through the 'passive" suicidal feelings.

Also passive suicidal feelings can quickly turn to active ones, the line is blurred.

I agree with Charlie's list, and the point about people using it to rant and not take advice.

I just think if we make another forum things will be too fragmented. The description for Serious is actually 'what doesn't fit anywhere else' so theoretically with passive suicidal posts its doing its job. It's when posts that belong in GSA are put there that they should obviously be moved.

[ChocolateMarvel]

I recently started a SRS BSNS thread because it ALL felt rather SRS BSNS to me and stuffs and I have been really struggling. I think its hard because of perceptions but its really important to only have one thread as that is where I think things get a bit messy. :/

[effervescence]

Perhaps re-name it Urgent Discussion and Advice?

I have only posted in Serious once or twice, when I really felt totally desperate. I do try to go in there to support, but get put off by the sheer number of new threads, lack of detail in them (ie. entire post is "I just can't do it" then you reply asking for more detail which just wastes time) and some threads that maybe don't need to be there.

[Sketchy]

I have recently posted in serious about being passively suicidal, but I was a danger of acting impulsively on my thoughts. I felt serious was the appropriate place to go and was grateful of the advice I received. To be honest I feel a bit guilty having posted there now and maybe over thinking things. Sorry, I'm feeling stupidly mushy-headed. I think serious can cover a wide range of things to different people, so it can be a hard thing to say what goes where. I agree with Charlie about it being difficult for us to asses what 'serious' constitutes as. I would hate to think of anyone too scared to ask for support that they need urgently because they feel it is not considered serious enough. I do agree that it is more helpful if people update their threads rather than create more than one the first page.

[Animad]

I don't think Urgent Discussion and Advice is a good name as then it is likely to be misused and used by anything that people want a quick reply to and as well as that it doesn't really say what it's about.

I also agree that it can be hard to tell whether people are passively (have suicidal ideations) or are actively suicidal here and some members may not know themselves. I think people also don't see much of a difference until they've gone out of that stage and are improving again when they can look back and think 'actually I don't think I would've done it at all then'/ realise they hadn't really been planning things and such and had just been thinking of it. The problem is, with both of these the emotions can be the same and so people with either of those need to be respected and treated equally. Yes, 1 is more likely to have a terrible outcome but it could be the ones that seem to be passively suicidal on reading the threads that are the worst ones as sometimes people write things as if they're not that bad and others may do the opposite and not even mean to. There also really isn't anywhere else for passively suicidal threads to go apart from MH too and is it fitted to that thread, I'm unsure.

As well as that, I think with a lot of the threads which are none-suicidal (and I definately don't want serious just to continue with the same proportion(or even have more) of suicide threads it already has and it's better to have a variety but then people saying 'well is that serious?' as it's maybe not someone who's about to top themselves is just going to turn it even more into a purely suicide board. To me serious is about things which may be triggering and that to the user it is a really serious problem that maybe is worsening how they feel significantly and doesn't fit in elsewhere. I've posted in there before and my thread had nothing to do with suicide. It was based on something that hugely affected me then and still does now but to others it may seem not that great. The reason it was in serious was not because I was going to kill myself or wanted urgent help/ more attention, it was because I wanted a rounded reply and it did mention SI but wasn't a thread that would fit into the SI forum. Even if it didn't mention SI I may still have put it in serious because of the huge impact it was having on me and the fact it didn't fit into other boards (apart from GSA but I still think looking back it was maybe a bit too hard-core for that; the thread has been deleted so if I have any threads present in serious this isn't related to them). Really it is hard for others to say that a thread is not serious enough to be in there as it may be something that to most people, especially older members on the forum, is something that may appear quite trivial but then to the thread-starter it could be a huge thing and nothing else has come close to being as bad; if that was then moved to GSA because people think it's not 'serious enough' or similar how is that going to make the user feel? Could it lead to people over-exaggerating on purpose when putting things in serious just to get more attention and feel that their post would then be more 'accepted' as being serious than maybe it would've if not exaggerated to the same level.

Anyway, sorry for me rambling on and on and on and on and sorry if half of it doesn't make sense!

[-Carpe Diem]

I'm half asleep so this could be an ubershite idea, but is there a way of only allowing one thread per user? because users can edit their own thread titles to say when its been updated and stuff, and it'd be fairly easy to moderate if a user makes more than one thread and stuff? I guess this doesn't stop the people posting so much and others getting pushed onto page two... [which pisses me off imensly because as horrible as this seems, its the same people posting which is fair enough if theyre having a rough time, but when another user suddenly has a really bad day, they get pushed to page 2 because of the repetitive posting]

Edit this if needed. I make no sense

[squirrelspit]

I'm half asleep so this could be an ubershite idea, but is there a way of only allowing one thread per user? because users can edit their own thread titles to say when its been updated and stuff, and it'd be fairly easy to moderate if a user makes more than one thread and stuff? I guess this doesn't stop the people posting so much and others getting pushed onto page two... [which pisses me off imensly because as horrible as this seems, its the same people posting which is fair enough if theyre having a rough time, but when another user suddenly has a really bad day, they get pushed to page 2 because of the repetitive posting]

Edit this if needed. I make no sense

Theres no way other than for us to physically merge threads together, which (i doubt anyone notices) but we do do.. and often in all the support boards if someone has two or more threads we merge them together or encourage them to delete a thread they feel is no longer relevant.

So yeah, this does get enforced as much as we can, but its an 'as and when a moderator is online' rather than us being able to have a specific setting for it.

[Serendipity.]

I really, really dislike the idea of Serious becoming a 'suicide board'.

It actually makes me - and I'm sure I'm not alone in this - horribly uncomfortable reading 'I'm about to kill myself' and 'I've just taken an overdose' and I find the idea of a whole board of that absolutely horrific. Apart from anything else, if the situation is that urgent then an internet forum isn't really the appropriate place to be asking for help. I have been on forums where posting when you are in that sort of a crisis is banned. It makes a nice change. I DON'T actually agree with it and I'm not suggesting it for RYL BUT I do think there's a point to it and I don't think that having Serious as being ONLY for people who are feeling actively suicidal would be especially constructive.

I think there's already a mentality that in order for it to be important, to get more replies, etc, one has to be on the verge of doing something serious/be suicidal. I think that already people find it difficult to ask for help when that ISN'T the case, and I think that would be further enforced by making Serious ONLY for that sort of post.

I personally am at a point now (although I haven't always been) where I wouldn't find it constructive for me, or fair on other members, to post a thread along the lines of 'omg I'm about to/have od'd'. That doesn't mean I'm not feeling it. However I do have a thread in Serious currently where I've been asking for support and trying to work through some of what's going on for me at the moment and come up with manageable steps to change things. I don't really see the problem with this, it seems somewhat more constructive in all honesty.

I do think that the MH Forum should be used more. I'm not sure how that could be achieved, but yes, encouraging people to post there is a good idea.

Also, posting in here scares me :P *hides*

[talaiporia]

If these rules/guidelines http://www.recoveryourlife.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109583 were followed, none of these things would be a problem. (Unless I'm missing something).

Serious board is for serious stuff; maybe not just suicide, but crises, serious, urgent problems.

As far as I can see, the main problem is single members created four/five threads, but then, that's against the guidelines.

[Bleeding Angel]

Its also the fact that when people do create threads (not just on that board mind), they dont really ask for anything, use it as a rant almost, then get ubber pissed off with the replies as they dont match what they wanted - which is impossible to do if someone just posts a relative statement not asking for anything.

I do feel some of the attitudes of posters asking for help are just wrong, for the fact they get all defensive, pissy and rude when they don't get the help they wanted. I am also sick of the amount of people that post "dont know why im posting this as no one ever replies to me anyway"

[Shrink]

If these rules/guidelines http://www.recoveryourlife.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109583 were followed, none of these things would be a problem. (Unless I'm missing something).

Serious board is for serious stuff; maybe not just suicide, but crises, serious, urgent problems.

As far as I can see, the main problem is single members created four/five threads, but then, that's against the guidelines.


^^ this.

I think the problem is 'serious' can mean different things for different people. Right from when I first joined I thought and still think my 'problems' belong in serious, they aren't general chat worthy. I guess they could fit in MH, but it's serious discussion AND advice. I don't really think its for other to judge the seriousness of a problem. I disagree with it becoming a suicide board, think there's one upping now. There definitely will be then!!

[talaiporia]

For what it counts, I think you deserve to be in Serious, no question. I think this thread is more about people who spam Serious with non-serious stuff, or multiple threads.

I don't think any of this is new, rather, just a reminder to re-enforce the rules? Again, maybe I'm missing something.

[offlineforever]

I think this raises a good point. I often struggle to decide where threads I want to create need posting when they could either go in serious or general support. I believe any relating to my family have gone into general, but if I have been in a crisis that I don't feel belongs in a specific support place like MH/SI etc I will post in there.

However, I have refrained from posting in Serious recently because I worry that my asking for support may be ignored due to the amount of threads that are in there.

I also wondered if maybe there should be a specific support area for threads in support of people as they often end up dissapearing too

[Scumbelina]

To me serious is about things which may be triggering and that to the user it is a really serious problem that maybe is worsening how they feel significantly and doesn't fit in elsewhere.


Serious board is for serious stuff; maybe not just suicide, but crises, serious, urgent problems.

This is what I always thought. If I needed to talk about wanting to SH or already have then it would probably be graphic & triggering to other members & I wouldn't post in SI discussion because I thought it wasn't supposed to be that serious/triggering, just discussion on beating urges/talking to family about it/people asking questions/cover up tips etc etc & then serious is like - "I've had a really pants day & really want to cut & want to make it bad etc" (Am I mistaken?:ermm:)


Its also the fact that when people do create threads (not just on that board mind), they dont really ask for anything, use it as a rant almost, then get ubber pissed off with the replies as they dont match what they wanted - which is impossible to do if someone just posts a relative statement not asking for anything.

I do feel some of the attitudes of posters asking for help are just wrong, for the fact they get all defensive, pissy and rude when they don't get the help they wanted.

This :plain: Makes you not want to bother!

[whirlpools]

I'm also incredibly uncomfortable with the idea of Serious being a 'suicide board' just to put my 2p in. This might be a pretty personal issue, but I already feel like, because I don't communicate (and that is sometimes what it is, like it or not) by threatening/mentioning suicide anymore (or at least most of the time) then my issues can't be deemed 'serious'. I know this is not the case!

Who are we to define 'serious' for other people?

Erm, my mum just asked me to check the TV guide so I've lost my train of thought.

Edit: I had just skimmed the other posts so thanks Scumbelina for summing things up.

[Bellatrix]

I think a rule of having one active thread in serious/MH/ED/SI per member should be the rule. Enforce it with points and people will soon get the idea.

[talaiporia]

I think a rule of having one active thread in serious/MH/ED/SI per member should be the rule. Enforce it with points and people will soon get the idea.

Agreed, it's so frustrating.

[Pi.R^2]

Yeah, I guess I didn't really mean serious should be just suicide threads, because that would indeed be woeful! In fact, I'm not entirely sure what I mean, and anything I do say would indeed be judgmental and me enforcing my own personal criteria of what counts as srs bsns on other people, which isn't really on.

I do agree that two major issues are multiple threads and people using it to rant and ignoring ALL the advice and suggestions. Is it actually in the actual rules that you can't have multiple threads, or is it more of an unwritten rule? And if so, can I PR threads if the poster already has an active thread in the same board?

And how do people suggest we deal with people just using threads to rant and ignore advice? I'd say just stop replying, but I get the feeling some people think it's a bit harsh to ignore someone who continually posts "It's too late" "I'm going to end it tonight", and end up replying, even though they know they will be ignored?

[The One Who]

Is it actually in the actual rules that you can't have multiple threads, or is it more of an unwritten rule? And if so, can I PR threads if the poster already has an active thread in the same board?

I didn't think there was any such rule, and I'm hesitant to really agree with it. I mean, define "active"? Is that no replies in a day, a week, a month? The second page, the fifth page? Whilst I agree that someone having two or more separate threads on the first page is annoying (and fragmented), if they are dealing with two separate issues, then is it really right to force those two issues together?

And how do people suggest we deal with people just using threads to rant and ignore advice? I'd say just stop replying, but I get the feeling some people think it's a bit harsh to ignore someone who continually posts "It's too late" "I'm going to end it tonight", and end up replying, even though they know they will be ignored?

Depending on the content, you could PR them for "suicide notes" or similar? Or, you could suggest that they may find the R/V forum (or journals even) more useful if they are not actively seeking support for their issue(s).

[talaiporia]

It's in the "please read" guidelines. I think there are supposed to be new rules in the works though, so maybe it'll be in there.

I think when someone has started 10 threads in 24 hours across various boards, it really is something that needs handling, because not only do they not get help, it hinders others getting help. It's not about the number of threads so to speak because you might be creating 2 or 3 in a short space of time on different issues, and that's okay.

I generally just stop replying to rant threads; if they descend into suicide threats, then they're reportable, but otherwise they just unhelpful.

I tried (gently) pointing out to a member yesterday they would get more help from having one thread, and more/better advice, and they got really angry, so I'm reluctant to do that again...

[random.swirls]

This is what I always thought. If I needed to talk about wanting to SH or already have then it would probably be graphic & triggering to other members & I wouldn't post in SI discussion because I thought it wasn't supposed to be that serious/triggering, just discussion on beating urges/talking to family about it/people asking questions/cover up tips etc etc & then serious is like - "I've had a really pants day & really want to cut & want to make it bad etc" (Am I mistaken?:ermm:)


My take on it would be self injury discussion is for all posts relating to self harm as the board description states - Covers all areas of self injury. This forum includes advice, information, recovery and support - so what you have posted above to my mind would all fit in Self Injury. Some posts in here will be triggering and no where does it say threads in SID should not be triggering in the same way that the ED board is for all things ED.

I don't think that serious should become a suicide board but I do think the room description is important - For threads that may be triggering or graphic which do not fit in any other forum. So if it's a thread relating to self injury then the SI board should be used, ED posts should go in the ED board, threads related to mental health should go there i.e. i'm being admitted etc. That leaves quite a narrow spectrum of posts that would fit in serious but that's how it should be.

I'm one of those who think serious should barely be posted in and thats in part because I see it as a board for people in utter despair where maybe hospital is the solution and to think of people being in that frame of mind long term makes me sad.

I also think if Serious was used as a last resort then the other boards would have more serious threads posted in them and that may in turn mean that the boards may feel like they are less cotton wooled then they are currently. In part because when I first joined Serious wasn't a particularly active board and thus threads that covered triggering topics were spread across the relevant forum

[Stellata]

I have a question.
Say someone has a thread that started off intensely 'triggery' but did ease off, but could stir up again at some point, and that person wants to really limit the amount of threads they post so try, as far as possible, to keep discussion and support of this serious stuff in their Serious thread? Would the answer be to move said thread to MH, and move it back again to Serious if things got really rocky again?

I'm in particular referring to my current thread in Serious here. It started out from a crisis, and I'm needing/using/wanting it to keep reaching out when things feel especially wobbly, to try and keep me from falling into 'bad' crisis mode again. Does that make sense?

Maybe we even need a place for people needing/wanting/using ongoing support threads through extra stressful times - e.g. breaks in support, job situations, family troubles, severe housing strife etc? Justathought. I know there's the Journals, but no one ever really looks there - do they?

[talaiporia]

I think if it started in Serious, it'd be fine there.
I think the problems is lots of people making LOTS of threads, all without much content, just multiple ranty threads of about 5-10 posts.

Your thread has a lot of content, and you are actually seeking advice. And I'm sure if someone said something to you, you wouldn't get all angry with them, you actually do want people's help.

If people literally just want to rant/vent, then there are R/Vs, but multiple threads - not really a reason for them. It doesn't help them get more support (in contrast to bumping a thread) it just pushes other people's threads off the page.

[Scumbelina]

My take on it would be self injury discussion is for all posts relating to self harm as the board description states - Covers all areas of self injury. This forum includes advice, information, recovery and support - so what you have posted above to my mind would all fit in Self Injury. Some posts in here will be triggering and no where does it say threads in SID should not be triggering in the same way that the ED board is for all things ED.

I don't think that serious should become a suicide board but I do think the room description is important - For threads that may be triggering or graphic which do not fit in any other forum. So if it's a thread relating to self injury then the SI board should be used, ED posts should go in the ED board, threads related to mental health should go there i.e. i'm being admitted etc. That leaves quite a narrow spectrum of posts that would fit in serious but that's how it should be.

I'm one of those who think serious should barely be posted in and thats in part because I see it as a board for people in utter despair where maybe hospital is the solution and to think of people being in that frame of mind long term makes me sad.

I also think if Serious was used as a last resort then the other boards would have more serious threads posted in them and that may in turn mean that the boards may feel like they are less cotton wooled then they are currently. In part because when I first joined Serious wasn't a particularly active board and thus threads that covered triggering topics were spread across the relevant forum

OK, that makes sense :hehe:

[Stellata]

Thanks talai.