Live Help


Forum Jump
Post New Thread  Closed Thread
Old 28-12-2015, 09:22 PM   #61
random.swirls
Head forum moderator
 
random.swirls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Timbuktu!
I am currently:

We are never ever going to get it 100% right that is the joy of the internet. But if someone is explicit that they are in the midst of an attempt then I think that should go in the same way that we don't allow suicide posts to be posted.

That said this isn't a new rule it's a rule we have often edited under going back in time but it's begun to crop up more and more recently which is why we have posted this.




When we lose twenty pounds... we may be losing the twenty best pounds we have! We may be losing the pounds that contain our genius, our humanity, our love and honesty. ~Woody Allen
Is a chocolate muffin loving glitter ball


random.swirls is offline  
Old 28-12-2015, 09:39 PM   #62
talaiporia
Chat Mod
 
talaiporia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: W. London
I am currently:

I think this sounds like a very helpful point.

It's very difficult to support people who, for example, have overdosed, because all advice boils down to "go to A&E". It's difficult to give any advice to the contrary because that would be dangerous both to the member, and to anyone reading. Cam mentioned professional help, and I very much agree that RYL is not a substitute for professional help, but to supplement it.

There have been a lot of threads recently that have simply said "I've self harmed / overdosed /etc." where it is very difficult to give advice. There is no context to explore or offer help with, in contrast to, "I want to self harm because..." and there is no advice that can be given beyond seeking professional help. In this sense, they're not constructive, but at times they can be quite unfair on other members. At times they can even make others feel responsible or guilty that they didn't do enough to help.

People have suggested exemptions for such posts, but in the past it was never an excuse - there was a time when everyone was claiming to have DID and would suggest their 'alters' had done something bad, and at the time, this was not a suitable reason or excuse to avoid infractions.

I saw a post, asking the OP to explore their feelings behind an incident. This is an excellent suggestion - something one of the Supporters suggested to me as a technique a while back and it's so much more helpful than simply talking about things that have happened, as it helps identify why and stop it happening again.



It doesn't matter where you come from; it matters where you go.
No-one gets remembered for the things they didn't do.
We won't all be here this time next year,
so while you can take a picture of us.
We're definitely going to hell,
but we'll have all the best stories to tell.


talaiporia is offline  
Old 28-12-2015, 09:58 PM   #63
bodlonrwydd
 
bodlonrwydd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
I am currently:

I find the suggestion that the mods have no responsibilities further than maintaining rules and general housekeeping to be quite worrisome. While I appreciate that the staff here are volunteers, there must surely also be some recognition of the fact that it is a website for people with mental health issues. And since the website is moderated by people who either experience or have had experience of mental health issues, I'd expect a degree of compassion. In addition to this, a lot of the members here have been posting for a number of years, as Jack has pointed out, and we have come to know a lot about their personalities and, pertinently, how they react to things.

The difference between RYL and Mumsnet is that the former has come to exist as a space specifically for people with mental health issues in which to seek help, share experiences, and offer advice with reference to those issues. Mumsnet is for parents and, more specifically, mothers to do the same except with reference to motherhood. Talk of suicide or self-harm there isn't quite as routine as it is here. Mumsnet is also much bigger and, while I'm sure there are some long-term friendships there, they're probably not as concentrated as they are here.

My main point here is that, when someone makes a thread we find to be distressing, we can only guess at how distressed the OP is at the time. I don't think that it is particularly helpful or supportive to delete a thread and leave the poster hanging. I like the suggestion that links are posted to places that can offer proper support. But I think that people should be free to exorcise their feelings in threads, regardless of whether they're in R&V or not, when it's clear that they are in crisis. I think that the onus is on those of us who are not in crisis to be able to restrain ourselves from posting distressing things blithely in general threads, and if that is all that's in question here then I am totally in agreement.

Finally, I do think that the timing of this thread was a bit thoughtless. While Jodie's thread may not be what has caused the creation of this thread, I'm pretty sure we can all suss out that either it was the catalyst, or at the very least that this thread has been timed so closely to it that you'd be very slow not to take the same mental steps. I think Jodie deserves a lot more compassion and empathy than she is being shown at the moment.




Forget your perfect offering
There's a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

Leonard Cohen


bodlonrwydd is offline  
Old 28-12-2015, 10:09 PM   #64
Foxtrot Oscar
 
Foxtrot Oscar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South of the Centre
I am currently:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodlonrwydd View Post
I find the suggestion that the mods have no responsibilities further than maintaining rules and general housekeeping to be quite worrisome. While I appreciate that the staff here are volunteers, there must surely also be some recognition of the fact that it is a website for people with mental health issues. And since the website is moderated by people who either experience or have had experience of mental health issues, I'd expect a degree of compassion. In addition to this, a lot of the members here have been posting for a number of years, as Jack has pointed out, and we have come to know a lot about their personalities and, pertinently, how they react to things.

The difference between RYL and Mumsnet is that the former has come to exist as a space specifically for people with mental health issues in which to seek help, share experiences, and offer advice with reference to those issues. Mumsnet is for parents and, more specifically, mothers to do the same except with reference to motherhood. Talk of suicide or self-harm there isn't quite as routine as it is here. Mumsnet is also much bigger and, while I'm sure there are some long-term friendships there, they're probably not as concentrated as they are here.

My main point here is that, when someone makes a thread we find to be distressing, we can only guess at how distressed the OP is at the time. I don't think that it is particularly helpful or supportive to delete a thread and leave the poster hanging. I like the suggestion that links are posted to places that can offer proper support. But I think that people should be free to exorcise their feelings in threads, regardless of whether they're in R&V or not, when it's clear that they are in crisis. I think that the onus is on those of us who are not in crisis to be able to restrain ourselves from posting distressing things blithely in general threads, and if that is all that's in question here then I am totally in agreement.

Finally, I do think that the timing of this thread was a bit thoughtless. While Jodie's thread may not be what has caused the creation of this thread, I'm pretty sure we can all suss out that either it was the catalyst, or at the very least that this thread has been timed so closely to it that you'd be very slow not to take the same mental steps. I think Jodie deserves a lot more compassion and empathy than she is being shown at the moment.
Agree. 110%. Finally common sense has prevailed.

Furthermore the mods have a responsibility to apply the rules consistently and in a timely manner which both historically and currently has not been happening. As has been said above, this has resulted in Jodie becoming a scapegoat for this issue. I don't buy into the argument at all that mods have 647 (or however many) other jobs. If you aren't able to maintain the responsibility of being a mod here due to other commitments then you need to step down from the role. Surely you know what it entails when you take it on?




Sir Phillip: Veg-a-ta-pal extraordinaire!


Foxtrot Oscar is offline  
Old 28-12-2015, 10:44 PM   #65
Auror.
Aurors for the win.
 
Auror.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Godric's Hollow

Quote:
Originally Posted by The One Who View Post
Then we should err on the side of caution and close the entire site down. Who are we to say anything to anyone about anything?

Basically this rule is setting a rather dangerous and incredibly difficult to moderate precedent. It would be far, far easier to be more lax about the rules and allow more freedom. RYL is no longer mostly populated by young teenagers (thirteen/fourteen-year olds), but is now an older demographic who should be able to be responsible for themselves and what they do and what they choose to read.
That's not what I am saying. Nor is this to do with people reading the threads, necessarily and who chooses to read what. It's more about what is posted, and specifically what should be done if someone's life is potentially in danger. That's not something we can help with in an online setting, nor can we accurately determine the severity of a situation in that case. I think you're making a lot of leaps and generalisations with what is being said.

Obviously in terms of self harm and eating disorders, everyone and every situation is different. But generally, the things that people are posting about do not come about as a result of needing emergency medical care, and if they do, it's not generally while a behavior is happening. This doesn't apply to every situation, and from what I am understanding, situations will still be dealt with in terms of thread editing/removal on a situation by situation basis. The issue is that nobody should be posting about using/doing any kind of behavior while actually doing it. You should be waiting until you are in a place where you are physically safe to post.

At least that's what I am taking from all of this.



You can't always keep it separate.
This is happening, this is part of you.


Auror. is offline  
Old 28-12-2015, 10:47 PM   #66
Auror.
Aurors for the win.
 
Auror.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Godric's Hollow

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodlonrwydd View Post
Finally, I do think that the timing of this thread was a bit thoughtless. While Jodie's thread may not be what has caused the creation of this thread, I'm pretty sure we can all suss out that either it was the catalyst, or at the very least that this thread has been timed so closely to it that you'd be very slow not to take the same mental steps. I think Jodie deserves a lot more compassion and empathy than she is being shown at the moment.

For what it's worth, I really didn't see that thread enough to know what happened. But I can think of multiple threads, both in support boards and in rv recently that I have seen and reported that broke this same rule. As I also said earlier, it's something I have gotten a warning for in the past, I think last summer. So it's a long standing thing, but it does seem to be cropping up a lot more recently, not just with a single member.



You can't always keep it separate.
This is happening, this is part of you.


Auror. is offline  
Old 28-12-2015, 11:11 PM   #67
Aardbei
Mali - Deputy Head Forum Moderator
 
Aardbei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
I am currently:

Hi everyone,

I'm closing this thread for now as things are getting quite tense.

The post was intended as a clarification and explanation of the rules, not a platform to question the role or time-management of the moderators and discuss the closure of one particular thread. We try to do the best we can and we won't always be deemed as getting it right. Any further issues can be brought to us by PM - as has already been mentioned, discussion of moderator action publicly is against the rules.

Thanks,

Mali





Aardbei is offline  
Old 28-12-2015, 11:16 PM   #68
random.swirls
Head forum moderator
 
random.swirls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Timbuktu!
I am currently:

Last post before I sleep!

I mentioned mumsnet because I know they consulted professionals like the Samaritans and others when deciding their rules. Bipolar UK have similar rules and posts where someone is currently attempting to kill themselves are deleted. This is because the only safe action at this point is for the member to seek professional help.

A few years back we also clarified the rules around suicide - http://www.recoveryourlife.com/forum...=Suicide+notes at this point members were generally supportive of this rule.

Lastly I sent a member who hasn't currently posted on this thread a pm this morning about this issue so it really is a culmination of posts which other members posting in this thread have commented on.

Edit - I've just seen Alis closed this! I shall keep this post up though




When we lose twenty pounds... we may be losing the twenty best pounds we have! We may be losing the pounds that contain our genius, our humanity, our love and honesty. ~Woody Allen
Is a chocolate muffin loving glitter ball


random.swirls is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Members Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is ON
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:53 PM.

Back to top