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Old 27-12-2015, 09:56 PM   #1
Aardbei
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Rule Clarification

Hi everyone.

The moderators have been asked to clarify the rules and as we have recently noticed a sharp increase in the number of members posting whilst actively engaging in self-harming behaviours we thought this might be sensible. This includes posting under the influence of an OD/in the process of ODing, posting during a suicide attempt, and posting whilst undertaking an act of self-injury.

We would ask that you refrain from posting in the above manner. It can have a negative impact on other members, as posts with content such as this can cause a great deal of concern. Posts containing any of the mentioned issues will continue to be edited and moderator action may be taken. There is already a rule prohibiting suicide notes/suicide threats and we are considering this type of posting to be an extension of that.

Posting in the manner mentioned above makes it very difficult for people to support others as the poster is not in a fit state to give or receive support. It puts pressure on the people trying to be supportive, especially if they do not know enough to be able to access outside help for the poster (such as location, real name etc) - and, most importantly, it is not their responsibility to do so.

We recognise that people need to talk about their distress, but if a person is actively engaging in self harming behaviours, then support needs to be sought off-site. This forum is a wonderful resource, but it has limitations and cannot be a substitute for real life psychological or medical intervention. Of course, we do not wish to discourage members from seeking support with resisting urges or suicidal feelings, nor are we saying that members should not have support after having ended up in hospital etc. It is just that in the instance where harm is underway, the priority needs to be taking responsibility and seeking real life medical help, which RYL cannot provide.

Thanks.





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Old 27-12-2015, 10:19 PM   #2
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I understand the base concerns and agree with them. However there are cases where someone might (say) be suffering dissociation, psychosis etc. and might not be rational in casual sense. I mean people in such states can jump in front of trains or out windows. They won't always be worried about their post decorum, and shutting them down while they are trying to stay "in-touch" could make things worse. In some rare cases I think its wise to take things with a grain of salt. I mean if a car is topped at a traffic light, and suddenly is about to get hit by an out of control vehicle, do police worry about giving tickets if the lawfully stopped car moves to avoid being hit?



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Old 27-12-2015, 10:40 PM   #3
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^^ but how can you tell who is actually dissacoslciated and who is just claiming to be dissacociated to get around the rules?

Don't get me wrong, I understand your point of view Isoverity, but I totally understand the mods stance here.

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Old 27-12-2015, 10:41 PM   #4
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I can understand where this is coming from, but I agree with what Jack said as well. While in a dissociative state, for instance, where staying in touch with reality may be difficult, posting on RYL may be the only "anchor" so to speak, and/or the only immediate support available.



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Old 27-12-2015, 10:46 PM   #5
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I@m sorry
i know this is directed at me
to be honest I don't even remember what I wrote in that thread.




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Old 27-12-2015, 10:48 PM   #6
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Cat, i understand the mods stance as well, but i see the other point as well.

Also, i think if someone appears to be in significant distress, it should be taken as bona fide. if we applied that mentality to everything, how do you know if anyone is 'really depressed' for instance?



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Old 27-12-2015, 10:53 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Indigo. View Post
Also, i think if someone appears to be in significant distress, it should be taken as bona fide. if we applied that mentality to everything, how do you know if anyone is 'really depressed' for instance?
I don't have any strong feelings on the original topic of this thread but I would like to back this statement up 100%.

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Old 27-12-2015, 10:56 PM   #8
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Please could somebody explain what bona fide means? I'm not sure I understand.

Also, if rule infringements do occur, will they be dealt with in a timely manner?




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Old 27-12-2015, 10:59 PM   #9
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I also think that the line been posting while actively engaging in self-injury, for example, and saying you're going to do something, is very blurred.




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Old 27-12-2015, 11:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxtrot Oscar View Post
Please could somebody explain what bona fide means? I'm not sure I understand
It means "in good faith", "without deception, or fraud". Basically if someone appears to be unwell, it should be taken to be true, rather than questioning the validity of their claims, for instance, whether they're 'really dissociated'.



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Old 27-12-2015, 11:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxtrot Oscar View Post
Please could somebody explain what bona fide means? I'm not sure I understand.

Also, if rule infringements do occur, will they be dealt with in a timely manner?
Bona fide means authentic or true.

The moderators are all volunteers but we try to act on post reports as quickly as we can. We operate a 'rule of 3' system where we need 3 mods to agree before we take action to try and make it fair. Sometimes things take longer if there are many post reports or the issue is complicated and it can take us time to come to a decision, and then draft any PMs/warnings/infractions and act on that decision. We try our best to be efficient but try to remember most of us work full time and have other commitments outside of RYL.





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Old 27-12-2015, 11:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indigo. View Post
It means "in good faith", "without deception, or fraud". Basically if someone appears to be unwell, it should be taken to be true, rather than questioning the validity of their claims, for instance, whether they're 'really dissociated'.
Ahh OK, thank you Lucy, that now makes sense.




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Old 27-12-2015, 11:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aardbei View Post
Bona fide means authentic or true.

The moderators are all volunteers but we try to act on post reports as quickly as we can. We operate a 'rule of 3' system where we need 3 mods to agree before we take action to try and make it fair. Sometimes things take longer if there are many post reports or the issue is complicated and it can take us time to come to a decision, and then draft any PMs/warnings/infractions and act on that decision. We try our best to be efficient but try to remember most of us work full time and have other commitments outside of RYL.
Thank you.




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Old 27-12-2015, 11:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxtrot Oscar View Post
I also think that the line been posting while actively engaging in self-injury, for example, and saying you're going to do something, is very blurred.
I also agree with this. Sometimes it can be clear, but I think for ths most part, there is a grey area that a lot of posts will fall into.



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Old 27-12-2015, 11:06 PM   #15
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Like, I'm sorry I posted somethin wrong. I didn't mean to. I don't remember what I wrote and I can't check because now it's gone, and I'm in trouble. If I could have not posted the wrong things obiously i would have.




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Old 27-12-2015, 11:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indigo. View Post
Cat, i understand the mods stance as well, but i see the other point as well.

Also, i think if someone appears to be in significant distress, it should be taken as bona fide. if we applied that mentality to everything, how do you know if anyone is 'really depressed' for instance?
True. But I did say I see both points of view.

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Old 27-12-2015, 11:24 PM   #17
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^^ but how can you tell who is actually dissacoslciated and who is just claiming to be dissacociated to get around the rules?

.
Well RYL isn't what it used to be (2000 14 yr olds on at a time). There are a handful of people on here compared to then. Its often possible to know the course of someone's travails and triumphs. I've know people who write about spending a day out and about, and next day or so not remembering what they did - and being surprised by it. People have also seriously harmed themselves when blanked out. They've dreaded these episodes and do not mean to manipulate someone. Is that messy? Yes it is. Do I blame anyone with concerns for threads? No. Do I think its riskier to shut some people rare people down? Probably.

Maybe some pre-approved thread with appropriate warnings could be allowed for some people. RYL used to be MUCH more graphic and edgy compared to anything I've seen the past 7 years. Its so sleepy and routine now I don't really see it going to hell in a hand-basket if someone long known has an episode of this or that now and then. I mean compared to letting them space out alone while Jacob Marleys and headless horseman flit about the room. There were good things in past deleted threads and these could have been useful when calmer seas returned imo



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Old 27-12-2015, 11:47 PM   #18
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I don't think this is directed towards any one member in particular. If it were, it would be dealt with privately I assume. I've gotten a warning for this myself in the past, and I've noticed more than one thread where similar has occurred, both on support boards and in rv.

If someone is in that much distress, RYL is not the place to be posting AT THAT TIME. They need immediate, offline help. RYL isn't a crisis chat or crisis website, and we're all human beings, a lot of us struggling too. I think that the point is most important. By all means seek support from us when you are in a place to receive it, but when things hit a certain point, there's not much we can do. Nobody's saying not to post or reach out. Just that there are times when RYL can be appropriate and helpful, but there is a line.

At least that's what I am taking from it.



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Old 27-12-2015, 11:50 PM   #19
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but what if you need help seeking help?




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Old 28-12-2015, 01:59 AM   #20
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The moderators used to put a thread in the place of the thread they moved/deleted. It would say something about the member needing support. That's not a perfect solution, but neither is anything else.
A person in extreme distress is not going to be thinking of any rules, so maybe this "rule clarification" is more so others will understand why some threads are removed from view. Do moderators contact the member with information on how to seek immediate help? That might help with the situation.

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