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Old 26-12-2018, 06:33 AM   #1
Koriandr
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Contains sexual abuse - Bad sex =/= Rape, Right?

Someone I knew asked about rape...

They basically consented to the sex, but the sex was painful and they said, "Is that rape?"

I told her "no". But apparently everyone thought I was being an asshole and I was "victim blaming"...?

How can you blame a victim of *no* crime?
I don't want to sound invalidating. But it honestly makes me upset. As a rape victim myself, I feel like when people say things like that, it diminishes the severity of actual rape.

Does anyone agree with me that bad sex is NOT rape?

I am all for women coming out about sexual abuse...

But to me, saying things like, "I was raped because I had painful sex" is like saying, "I'm OCD because I wash my hands a lot"...

Sorry this was kind of a rant...
But I hope I'm not the only one who feels this way




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Old 26-12-2018, 09:14 PM   #2
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It depends on the situation.

Consent doesn't begin and end with "will you have sex with me" each action requires consent and when to stop too.

With out being in the persons head at the time it is hard for anyone else to know whether they were consenting. I think it is one of those situations where maybe giving the person the benefit of the doubt rather than to accuse someone than has been assaulted of making something out of nothing.

I have heard others do the opposite it and try to justify rape as bad sex when they clearly made their intentions (no) clear so it can be a tricky subject.

Maybe rather than asking whether it was rape maybe the question should have been was it what you wanted and did you consent?



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Old 27-12-2018, 09:29 PM   #3
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Thank you for explaining it that way!
To be honest, I did not think of it that way.

I'm definitely understanding of the whole "it's wasn't rape. it was bad sex" thing.. But I feel that in some situations, it's definitely a thing where people equate bad sex as rape. I don't think (I certainly hope anyway!) that it happens often though...

I've been in sexual situations where I froze. I did not say "no" but I did not say "yes". I was not drugged or drunk, but I was restrained.

I have calmed down since making this post, so I think I am more understanding now. I am just wondering, where does the line get drawn? I totally get it, that not every rape is the same...

But... Where does "bad sex" become rape?
Maybe this is a political question?




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Old 28-12-2018, 08:48 AM   #4
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I think that you are sensitive to the topic because of your experience, but from my experience my partner stopped when they acknowledged I was in pain, and asked if they should continue. I don't think it is a political question. Painful sex is not a given, but it is difficult to say whose responsibility it is to say this is painful so let's stop.
I agree with tiptoes comments.
My experience of non-consensual sex changed when I was restrained and choked so I couldn't vocalize stop. I disassociated to cope, and blamed myself afterwards for initially consenting and therefore getting myself into that scenario in the first place. Personally, I would not appreciate being told it was not rape but I had to be told it was.
If the person is a friend, I think that you should try to be supportive and listen and non-judgmental.....all which seems like a lot. But rape culture has really complicated expectations people have of sex.

"Bad sex" is a term you put on "painful sex". Immediately I see a conflict. I am not an expert and I am not judging you. But I know that sex doesn't have to be painful. Communication should be ongoing and each party involved should feel free to stop at any time.





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Old 28-12-2018, 10:06 PM   #5
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I honestly want to thank you both for explaining!

I do think I was upset because I was over-identifying. It made me a little upset as well because I felt invalidated. I've managed to calm down a lot since making this post.

I think in my mind, I was thinking more along the lines of, consent is only when you say "yes". I imagined if someone said "Yes" to sex and they were not drugged, drunk, restrained or coerced into saying "yes", then that's consensual sex...

Honestly, I've never had sex that wasn't painful. But I didn't consider it rape because I did consent to it. But in my situation it was my anatomy that made sex painful, *not* my partner...

Of course, in situations where someone doesn't stop when you ask them to, or if they prevent you from revoking consent that is no doubt, 100$ rape. But this particular person I was talking to did not tell their partner they were in pain... They just let it continue. So how would her partner have known? And is it still considered rape if she never told him?

I guess I took it personally that someone would accuse someone else of rape, when they never implied to their partner that consent was revoked. That was what upset me the most.

In my experiences with non-consensual sex, I either did not give consent (did not say "yes") or I clearly said "no" and was ignored... That, to me, was what *I* would consider abuse...

But I am not the law.




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Old 04-01-2019, 09:57 AM   #6
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I've recently heard about a campaign to change the emphasis from one party having to give a clear no to the other party getting an "enthusiastic yes".

When people talk about bad sex I think what often are saying is that it wasn't the sex they were expecting. This could be for a number of reasons from a premature conclusion to doing something that looked to be a good idea and wasn't to just not being into it. I think it is this last one that maybe you are talking about. Now you could decide ok I'm not getting anything from this fine but the other party is and I'm happy to continue for them. Or want to stop but not be sure you are allowed to because you have already given consent. Communication is key throughout sex both parties should be asking whether you both want to continue and without that enthusiastic yes maybe they should stop.

Not checking you have consent is not an excuse to have sex with someone without consent.



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Old 05-01-2019, 10:19 AM   #7
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I'm with you I don't class consntual bad sex as rape.



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Old 06-01-2019, 08:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiptoes View Post
I've recently heard about a campaign to change the emphasis from one party having to give a clear no to the other party getting an "enthusiastic yes".

When people talk about bad sex I think what often are saying is that it wasn't the sex they were expecting. This could be for a number of reasons from a premature conclusion to doing something that looked to be a good idea and wasn't to just not being into it. I think it is this last one that maybe you are talking about. Now you could decide ok I'm not getting anything from this fine but the other party is and I'm happy to continue for them. Or want to stop but not be sure you are allowed to because you have already given consent. Communication is key throughout sex both parties should be asking whether you both want to continue and without that enthusiastic yes maybe they should stop.

Not checking you have consent is not an excuse to have sex with someone without consent.
Pretty much agreeing with this. I think the term I've heard from other places recently is radical consent, and I think that's really important. I don't know enough to explain it better or different.

I'm sorry you felt invalidated, though I guess it's also worth reflecting on how you might also be invalidating of the other person's experience as well. I don't think consent is something that is either black or white, it's something that needs to be freely given and revoked at ANY point in time, and parties need to feel safely able to do so.

Again not an expert and I know a lot of others who could explain better, and don't necessarily claim that everyone should agree with me.



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Old 09-01-2019, 08:59 PM   #9
Koriandr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiptoes View Post
I've recently heard about a campaign to change the emphasis from one party having to give a clear no to the other party getting an "enthusiastic yes".

When people talk about bad sex I think what often are saying is that it wasn't the sex they were expecting. This could be for a number of reasons from a premature conclusion to doing something that looked to be a good idea and wasn't to just not being into it. I think it is this last one that maybe you are talking about. Now you could decide ok I'm not getting anything from this fine but the other party is and I'm happy to continue for them. Or want to stop but not be sure you are allowed to because you have already given consent. Communication is key throughout sex both parties should be asking whether you both want to continue and without that enthusiastic yes maybe they should stop.

Not checking you have consent is not an excuse to have sex with someone without consent.
I completely agree with this!
I firmly believe that if someone says "yes" and was not coerced into it, then it's consensual.

What I don't understand is, if someone consents and the sex isn't what they expect, but they continue with the sex without giving any indication that they have revoked consent.... How is their partner supposed to know that consent has been revoked? And if it was revoked secretly, is that fair to their partner to be accused of rape, when they were never given any indication that their partner revoked consent?

Yes, I understand that they may be afraid to revoke consent.... but how on earth would their partner know if they don't say/do anything? Especially if they were given the "enthusiastic yes"?

I just think it's unfair that someone can consent to sex, then later on either regret it, or not like it and then claim that it was rape.

It's not fair to their partner to be called a rapist, when their partner literally had no clue that consent was revoked...

It feels wrong to me. Like, when someone says, "Oh, I'm so depressed!" But they don't have depression? Or when people say, "I'm so OCD! I wash my hands all the time!"

You know what I mean? Like, how could you call someone a rapist when they were given consent, but were never told to stop, or given any indication that the consent was revoked?


Last edited by Koriandr : 09-01-2019 at 09:12 PM.



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