So, when I was in chat today someone asked that question, or at least a question along those lines. And people answered with, 'He does it for fun, just to pick on us and laugh." It can feel that way. But, it's important we know that it isn't that way. I ask the same questions sometimes. In fact, one night last week I had and 'episode'. I had run down the street with a pocket full of pills and a razor with the intention of going to the park to kill myself. Well, I backed out. When I went back home I was still pretty upset. When I walked into my room I tripped over my Bible that was in the floor and that triggered my questions of "Why God do you let me feel this way, what did I do to deserve it." Later on when I had calmed down, I went to straighten up my room where I had destroyed it earlier. I picked up a book called "Sticking Up For Who I Am" and opened it. It opened right to the chapter called, "If God Loves Me, Why Does He Let Me Hurt." Some people would call this a coincidence, but I believe God answers our questions in many different ways, and I believe this was His way of answering mine. I read the chapter and afterwards felt a huge sense of relief. So, since it seems so many people are struggling with this question, I thought I'd share a few points from the book, in hopes it will help someone.
First off, God didn't create pain and suffering. Pain and suffering entered the world as a result of Adam's choice to disobey God's commandments. With that came the reality of spending eternity separated from God and in a constant state of pain. According to 2 Peter 3:9, God allows the suffering here on earth to continue so that as many people as possible can be given the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior and escape the horrors of an eternity without God. God is not powerless to get rid of pain. He is just patient. I think the fact that people know He has the power to get rid of it, yet He chooses not to is what makes people think He does it for fun or that He doesn't care. God has promised that someday He will completely do away with all evil on this planet and al he pain it causes. Then those who have chosen to accept the sacrifice of His son will live forever in an eternally perfect, pain free world.
John 16:33 says, "In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." Jesus warns us that we are all going to face painful times in our lives- not because we do bad things but because we live in this world. Sometimes we suffer because of mistakes of our own, but other times we do nothing to deserve the pain we experience. There is nothing we can do about it except to expect God to help us through the pain and allow Him to use it however He chooses. James 1:12 tells us we will eventually wear a crown of victory if we persevere though the trials we face.
The book of Esther tells a story of a girl who faced a terrible painful childhood yet experienced great victory and found herself wearing a crown. Esther had 3 major strikes against her in life.
1.) She was Jewish and the entire Jewish nation had been conquered by the Babylonians. All Jews had been either killed or captured and Esther had very little freedom.
2.) She was a female. Most civil rights at that time belonged to the males. A woman's rights were those granted to her by her husband or father.
3.)Both her parents had died. In that society, an orphaned young girl was the lowest of all the people with very little hope of improving her status. She had nothing to offer the family of a Jewish man in exchange for the right to marry him. The only thing Esther had going for her was the fact that she was pretty. But that didn't count for much seeing as she didn't have any possessions or any power- nothing that would attract a family to let their son marry her.
So, basically she had a crappy childhood and no hope for the future. Add the fact that a deranged man who hated Jews had risen to power and convinced that king to issue an edict demanding their annihilation, and the future for Esther looked rather grim.
But God had a purpose for the pain Esther endured. Everything that made her unattractive to a Jewish family in search of a spouse for their son made her available for God's plan. Because she wasn't engaged to be married as most girls her age were, it made her eligible to enter the beauty pageant the king conducted in search for a new wife. She won the whole thing. Esther was given the most prestigious crown any girl on earth could have worn at that time in history. She became the queen of Persia. And she took the positions just in time to save her people form extermintation. God used Esther to rescue the entire Jewsish nation!
God ALWAYS has a purpose for our pain. If He can't use it, He won't allow it.
Sometime God allows us to experience pain in order to protect us.
He sometimes uses pain to get our attention. He will allow us to suffer a temporary injury if He knows it can prevent us from sustaining permanent damage. Look at Hebrews 12:6-7,10-11
Sometimes God allows us to experience pain in order to prune us.
When God sees an area in our lives that is getting a little scraggly, He often cuts it back so that ir will be able to produce more fruit. John 15:1-2, Jesus says, "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit He prunes so that it will be even more fruitful."
Sometimes God allows us to experience pain in order to reveal His power and glory.
God used the pain Esther experienced early in her life to magnificently reveal His power the the world. Take the blind man told about in John 9. When Jesus' disciples asked, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, "Neither this man nor his parents sinned.....but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life." (John 9:2-3)
Sometimes God allows us to experience pain in order to spread the Gospel.
After His resurrection, Jesus appeared to His followers and commanded them to spread the good news all over the world. Instead though, they huddles together in Jerusalem for safety and support. It took a little heat in their lives to get them to comply with Jesus' commands. One day a religious leader named Saul began dragging Christians out of their homes and imprisoning them, and then he stood and watched as one of them was stoned to death. Acts 8:1 says, "On that day a great persecution broke out against the church at Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria." It wasn't pleasant for the disciples to experience painful persecutions, but it was necessary to get them to leave Jerusalem and take the message of Jesus' resurrection to the places God intended.
Painful experiences are inevitable in our lives, but how are we supposed to react when we find ourselves hurting??
We Must Not Mistake The Presence Of Pain For The Absence Of God.
Take the story of Lazarus. I'll try and make it short. Lazarus got sick, his sisters sent for Jesus, He was their friend, Jesus and his disciples were within walking distance, but He chose to not come to their rescue when they needed Him. Or so it seemed. Lazarus died and was buried and Jesus was nowhere to be seen. He had purposely chosen not to show up until it seemed to late. When Jesus finally got to Bethany both sisters ran to him and said, "Lord, if you had been here, our brother would not have died." They new that if Jesus had chosen to intervene, this terrible tragedy would not have occurred. But Jesus had a plan, He wanted to do more than just heal a sick friend. It was only in Mary and Martha's darkest moments of anguish and pain that Jesus was best able to demonstrate the full extent of God's power and completeness of His love. It was in that time that He could bring the greatest glory to God. Jesus questioned Martha, "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?" He then proceeded to raise Lazarus from the dead. God wasn't absent when Mary and Martha were experiencing great pain, He was implementing a plan. He didn't cause the illness that took their brother's life, but He used it to bring significant healing to many people who would otherwise have remained lost and dying.
If God can raise Lazarus from the dead, He can certainly handle any problems we may have now.
We Must Allow The Pain To Empower Us- Not Impair Us
2 Corinthians 12:9-10
"Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am stong."
Paul's response to pain and tragedy raised the curiosity of unbelievers all around him. As they saw the light of Christ shining through him, many were drawn to his Savior.
Stars shine just a bright during the day as they do at night, but their light is insignificant compared to the brilliance of the sun. It's only when they are surrounded by darkness that the starts can be counted in the sky. The same is true with our lives... the darker things are around us, the more we can shine.
We Must Remember That Our Pain Is Temporary
Our suffering is temporary even if it lasts a lifetime here on earth. 2 Corinthians 4:17 says, "For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all." The size and duration of our present pain is nothing compared to the size and duration of the glory we'll experience in heaven. Revelation 21:3-4 "He will wipe every tear from our eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain."
If pain is a place we have to go(and Jesus has told us it is in John 16:33) then we should make the trip worthwhile. We should get everything out of it that we possibly can and we must accept it, learn from it, and let God use it!
As we wait for the day when God will end all pain, we must hold to the Word of God and let it shine through us in a dark and painful world. It is our job to attract others to a relationship with God that will allow them to spend their eternity free from sorrow and pain.
After I read that chapter, the thought of suicide just seemed ridiculous to me. Who am I to decide whether or not my pain has a purpose? By taking my own life I'm telling God that I don't care about His plans for me. But I do care. And I now realize that God doesn't hate me. I didn't do anything to deserve to be Bipolar. I didn't do anything to deserve the abuse from my father. I've done nothing to deserve some of this pain. But, I have to deal with this pain. I can't get rid of it. Good news is though, I don't have to deal with it alone. I can fully expect God to be there for me, whenever and wherever I need Him.
I know that whatever plan God has for me must be good since I've had to experience so much pain and discomfort in my life. And I'm going to give Him the chance to show me His plan for me, something I couldn't do if I were dead.
So, I'm hoping this restored someone's hope. I'd like to hear some peoples experiences. So feel free to Share.
I've gone around everywhere.
I've searched around everywhere.
I've turned around everywhere.
There's no one, there's no one like Him.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Him.
Uhm... God, or a higher power, doesn't directly cause or prevent pain... I mean I get what you're saying, but like... I really hate it when people choose to blame someone else (or God) for they're suffering. Everything in the universe is balanced, for every bit of suffering there's an equal bit of joy.
I don't agree with 'for every bit of suffering there's an equal bit of joy". There's too many people who go through life experiencing very, very little joy and horrible amounts of pain for that to be true. Unless you're not talking about just in one person's life but as the universe as a whole. But even then, with all the evil in the world, there's way more suffering. God can cause and can't prevent pain. There's no doubt about that.
I've gone around everywhere.
I've searched around everywhere.
I've turned around everywhere.
There's no one, there's no one like Him.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Him.
Then wear the gold hat, if that will move her;
If you can bounce high, bounce for her too,
Till she cry "Lover, gold-hatted, high-bouncing lover,
I must have you!"
Thomas Parke D’Invilliers
I'm glad you like it. Hopefully it will help someone.
I've gone around everywhere.
I've searched around everywhere.
I've turned around everywhere.
There's no one, there's no one like Him.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Him.
Yeah I meant the universe as a whole... I know a lot of people suffer, I mean everyone does, but I feel like every bit of happiness or joy or love overpowers the suffering in the long run.
Also I know I shouldn't really be arguing, because I'm not religious, and if anything I identify with Taoism and Buddhism the most, so I tend to believe in balance more than most. :\
I've gone around everywhere.
I've searched around everywhere.
I've turned around everywhere.
There's no one, there's no one like Him.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Him.
"First off, God didn't create pain and suffering. Pain and suffering entered the world as a result of Adam's choice to disobey God's commandments." Genisis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
If God created this physical reality and all laws which govern it, how can you say he did not create pain and suffering and all that goes with this existence? Good and bad, right and wrong, joy and suffering, pleasure and pain. According to the bible, Eve was the first to consume the forbidden fruit and Adam later followed temptation. Don't forget about Eve.
With that said, you honestly believe in a supernatural being that would determine the fate of the rest of humans (his own creation) solely on the choices of the first two created? An analogy that does not do justice to the extreme implications and significance of this belief would be the following: Punishing a murderer along with his family soley for the father's crime. If his children have children they will serve the same punishment for their entire lives as well, all due to the father's original crime. And on it goes.
"God ALWAYS has a purpose for our pain. If He can't use it, He won't allow it."
God has a purpose for people being raped, tortured, starved to death, inflicted by disease, exposed to permanent psycologically damaging traumas? Wait a minute, so what you're saying is God had a purpose for Adam and Eve to disobey in the FIRST place? Otherwise he wouldn't have allowed it to happen. So I guess all of the chaos in this world and the next serves his will? I'm sorry this is completely absurd.
Still I won't discredit the fact that you can take many great lessons of life from the motivational and thought provoking parables from the bible. However, one has to be careful to distinguish what is the word of man with what is believed to be the word of God. With that all said, I will leave you with this:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? -Epicurus
ok qqmore.... I didn't ask for you to argue this. One of the reasons I felt safe posting on this site is because I felt that if I did it wouldn't be argued. Not because everyone felt the way I do, but because when I look at other posts concerning topics of religion, I don't see much arguing going on. I don't see others attacking or trying to disprove another's belief.
As far as your comment of : With that said, you honestly believe in a supernatural being that would determine the fate of the rest of humans (his own creation) solely on the choices of the first two created?
We decide our fate. We decide whether we go to heaven or hell. We get to decide whether we believe in God and if we want to except His gift of Salvation through His son Jesus. So, we have a say in our own fate.
God can use people's pain for something good if they choose to let Him. I know is hard to understand, and even now I can't really find the words (could be cause I just woke up). And I think this issue of pain and suffering in the world is what most confuses people about God. It's confusing. There was this girl who was raped, she endured much pain because of it. She choose to have the baby and I think she put it up for adoption. That child is now I big speaker on abortion. So, I think God used her pain and a seemingly bad situation and brought something good out of it. It may not always seem like much but He can use our pain. And I know it's confusing about the people who end up dying from pain. I just don't have all the answers but I think even if I did, someone so determined to disprove God and stuff, will always find something to argue.
Adam and Eve disobeyed by their own choice and out of that choose consequence was born along with pain and suffering. When Adam and Eve chose to disobey God, things changed.
God is able, and He is willing. But He is patient. It's hard to understand. I think even more hard to understand if you don't believe in God.
I really hate the fact that you chose to post. Honestly, I don't think it would be much appreciated if I went and posted something about God the Wiccan thread. Unless someone is asking for a debate over the issue of the existence of God, I think it's best to respect they're beliefs and not try to discredit them. It would be like me going around to everyone's post and in some way picking apart what they said. I really thought this site was different. I would expect this on a site like Myyearbook or Myspace but not here.
I've gone around everywhere.
I've searched around everywhere.
I've turned around everywhere.
There's no one, there's no one like Him.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Him.
maybe 'he' is testing you?
maybe you have to go through bad to appreciate the good in your life, or all the good that is yet to come?
we need negative emotions to have positive emotions
negative experiences to appreciate the good ones
No, you're right Spoons. We do need the bad to appreciate the good.
I've gone around everywhere.
I've searched around everywhere.
I've turned around everywhere.
There's no one, there's no one like Him.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Him.
"First off, God didn't create pain and suffering. Pain and suffering entered the world as a result of Adam's choice to disobey God's commandments." Genisis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
If God created this physical reality and all laws which govern it, how can you say he did not create pain and suffering and all that goes with this existence? Good and bad, right and wrong, joy and suffering, pleasure and pain. According to the bible, Eve was the first to consume the forbidden fruit and Adam later followed temptation. Don't forget about Eve.
With that said, you honestly believe in a supernatural being that would determine the fate of the rest of humans (his own creation) solely on the choices of the first two created? An analogy that does not do justice to the extreme implications and significance of this belief would be the following: Punishing a murderer along with his family soley for the father's crime. If his children have children they will serve the same punishment for their entire lives as well, all due to the father's original crime. And on it goes.
"God ALWAYS has a purpose for our pain. If He can't use it, He won't allow it."
God has a purpose for people being raped, tortured, starved to death, inflicted by disease, exposed to permanent psycologically damaging traumas? Wait a minute, so what you're saying is God had a purpose for Adam and Eve to disobey in the FIRST place? Otherwise he wouldn't have allowed it to happen. So I guess all of the chaos in this world and the next serves his will? I'm sorry this is completely absurd.
Still I won't discredit the fact that you can take many great lessons of life from the motivational and thought provoking parables from the bible. However, one has to be careful to distinguish what is the word of man with what is believed to be the word of God. With that all said, I will leave you with this:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? -Epicurus
This is ignorant, whilst I agree with you there is no need to tell somebody what they believe is Absurd.
I have to remind myself that some birds just aren't meant to be caged.
Their feathers are just too bright.
And when they fly away, the part of you that knows it was a sin to lock them up rejoices.
Still, the place you live in is that much more drab and empty when they're gone.
Perhaps simply ceasing discussion of the topic is best rather than starting any name-calling. That said, the thread title asks a question which was answered, albeit not in a manner the OP wanted to hear. It probably should've been made clearer that the discussion was limited to theological justification for suffering.
hi broken i agree with you totaly all the way and all we have to do is look at nature God created that it did not happen by accident well done broken
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