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Old 28-12-2015, 11:37 PM   #1
Foxtrot Oscar
 
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Rule Clarification Thread

Can I ask why the Rule Clarification thread was locked? Obviously I read the reason(s) why but from an outsider point of view it comes across very much that as soon as anyone said something the mods didn't like it was locked. People were making some very interesting and important points.

I would like to start a discussion on why moderator action on this site is not more transparent? Why can't the actions of mods be openly discussed? In many other factions of life today organisations have to be transparent and accountable for their decisions. For example, the IPCC, heck even Primary Schools have school councils. The current system is leading to mistrust between individuals on this site and the moderators. People don't feel safe here.

Moderator decisions should be open to challenge and discussion. Otherwise it just becomes a cover up. I accept the need for moderators but then why not have a group of 'lay' people that could review any decision for quality and fairness. Otherwise how do people know they haven't simply be the target of a moderators dislike? The thread that was moderated this week ran alongside another thread which seemed to have no action taken on it at all (this may not be the case now) and so how, as onlookers, does that not appear unfair?

As moderators you should not be immune to any challenge of your behaviours.


Last edited by Foxtrot Oscar : 28-12-2015 at 11:42 PM.



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Old 28-12-2015, 11:42 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Foxtrot Oscar View Post
I would like to start a discussion on why moderator action on this site is not more transparent? Why can't the actions of mods be openly discussed?
Here here. Otherwise this is a dictatorship and not the 'community' it claims to be.



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Old 28-12-2015, 11:45 PM   #3
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Here here. Otherwise this is a dictatorship and not the 'community' it claims to be.
It is a dictatorship. Almost all online sites are, with the few exceptions such as voat.

Harley is #1, he chooses head mods, with input from the moderator teams, the head mods choose moderators, with input from the moderator teams.

Don't think RYL is a democracy, it is not.

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Old 28-12-2015, 11:57 PM   #4
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REVOLUTION!!!!!





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Old 29-12-2015, 12:14 AM   #5
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How do you expect this to happen? serious question.
Chat is barely modded because not enough active mods/can't find people to agree to mod/nobody cares/we are grown ups and can stick to the rules (ok that last one is a lie but it's ok, no mods about to tell us off and put us on the naughty step), yet you expect to find people to mod mods and make everything transparent, and add more work to people who give their time to help moderate a site that, lets face it, even the people who run it seem to be bored with.
Also, as stated on the other thread, you need three mods to agree to a decision. If you have pissed three mods off then maybe you have to accept that you are actually the problem and it isn't them being dicks.
Anywho, good luck with your democracy!



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the caterpillars spoke not of her beauty, but of her weirdness.
They wanted her to change back into what she always had been.


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Old 29-12-2015, 12:15 AM   #6
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You so would, Lucy.



When she transformed into the butterfly,
the caterpillars spoke not of her beauty, but of her weirdness.
They wanted her to change back into what she always had been.


But she had wings.

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Old 29-12-2015, 12:21 AM   #7
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Scratch it out and start again?



When she transformed into the butterfly,
the caterpillars spoke not of her beauty, but of her weirdness.
They wanted her to change back into what she always had been.


But she had wings.

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Old 29-12-2015, 01:06 AM   #8
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I agree that we should be allowed to publicly challenge, or appeal decisions.



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make a deal with God.




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Old 29-12-2015, 07:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .Elphaba. View Post
How do you expect this to happen? serious question.
Chat is barely modded because not enough active mods/can't find people to agree to mod/nobody cares/we are grown ups and can stick to the rules (ok that last one is a lie but it's ok, no mods about to tell us off and put us on the naughty step), yet you expect to find people to mod mods and make everything transparent, and add more work to people who give their time to help moderate a site that, lets face it, even the people who run it seem to be bored with.
Also, as stated on the other thread, you need three mods to agree to a decision. If you have pissed three mods off then maybe you have to accept that you are actually the problem and it isn't them being dicks.
Anywho, good luck with your democracy!
Really don't think this is what happens. It's more the case of if one annoys one mod, they close ranks and then other mods decide they're annoyed come what may.

I do however agree there is a real sense of fatigue here. I guess that's the point isn't it? Does it really have much of a future?




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Old 29-12-2015, 10:23 AM   #10
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I agree. It is, in my opinion, why the "community team" fell apart, because the mods had to agree to almost everything and only they could do things and if they didn't like an idea or felt it was too much like hard work it was rejected without any further discussion. Speak out against it and you might as well talk to a brick wall. Take the "overhaul" thread. There were a few good ideas in there, but it has died a death because no one can take things forward, or maybe no one wants to?

Is it still a thing that any negative comment about RYL or the mods in general is point-worthy? Obviously if you are personally flaming someone that's different, but questioning the structure and system of moderation should be reasonably open. How are prospective mods approached and chosen? It seems to be a case of knowing the right people; why not open it to people to volunteer? And choose from that pool, which would certainly increase the potential number of mods.


Last edited by The One Who : 29-12-2015 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 29-12-2015, 01:00 PM   #11
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I know for a fact I have pissed off mods, more than once, yet I am treated fairly by all of them. I also have had a friend who is a mod give me a warning. Maybe it is more that people are making excuses for behaviour and once again the easiest people to go after are mods.

Also, volunteer to mod? You really think with how mods are treated on this site anyone who would be a good mod would actually volunteer?

I am sounding like a mod kiss ass, trust me this is far from true. If how the site is run is such a problem why not question the person who does mod the mods instead of bitching about them and the rules they have to stick to.

But heh, it is easier to bitch and moan about people who can't impliment changes, yet do actually volunteer their time to try to remind a site, of mostly adults (!), to stick to rules a child wouldn't find issue with.

Nevermind people volunteering to be mods, I am surprised the ones we have aren't saying **** it and leaving en masse.



When she transformed into the butterfly,
the caterpillars spoke not of her beauty, but of her weirdness.
They wanted her to change back into what she always had been.


But she had wings.

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Old 29-12-2015, 01:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .Elphaba. View Post
I know for a fact I have pissed off mods, more than once, yet I am treated fairly by all of them. I also have had a friend who is a mod give me a warning. Maybe it is more that people are making excuses for behaviour and once again the easiest people to go after are mods.

Also, volunteer to mod? You really think with how mods are treated on this site anyone who would be a good mod would actually volunteer?

I am sounding like a mod kiss ass, trust me this is far from true. If how the site is run is such a problem why not question the person who does mod the mods instead of bitching about them and the rules they have to stick to.

But heh, it is easier to bitch and moan about people who can't impliment changes, yet do actually volunteer their time to try to remind a site, of mostly adults (!), to stick to rules a child wouldn't find issue with.

Nevermind people volunteering to be mods, I am surprised the ones we have aren't saying **** it and leaving en masse.
This ^

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Old 29-12-2015, 05:55 PM   #13
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I've volunteered before to be a mod on here though i'm not sure how it works anymore as new mods just seem to appear out of the woodwork these days :P (and I wuld again, I'm sure others would too... I really doubt a few people having an issue with some rules is going to result in all the mods running off and noone wanting to be one) I've been a mod on other forums too. I can understand this from both sides, but I do also dislike the idea of a thread being locked just because people were pointing out flaws in what a mod said/in a mods ruling.
however, i was not online for much of this so really do not feel it's right for me to say much. I did read the thread back, and I do in principle understand what the mods were saying, but on the other hand peoples points about the subjective nature of this rule were valid. I think that the rule may need some clarification, not in the way on that thread, but on a what constitutes as rule breaking and how a person can tell.
also on the deleting threads of obviously distressed people thing, in my mind that's like having a distressed friend on the phone and hanging up on them with no warning... in fact no, it's like having a distressed person on the phone and the phone gooing dead, both parties are left hanging, one with no support and the other panic stricken over what might be going on with the other...


anyway, wasnt it decided when the trigger labels were all changed/removed that we have to have responsibility over what we read on here? And we shouldn't be bubble wrapped?

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Old 29-12-2015, 08:02 PM   #14
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Who watches the watchmen... :O


I just wanted to make a comic book reference..

*wanders off*



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Old 29-12-2015, 08:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .Elphaba. View Post
Also, volunteer to mod? You really think with how mods are treated on this site anyone who would be a good mod would actually volunteer?
...

Nevermind people volunteering to be mods, I am surprised the ones we have aren't saying **** it and leaving en masse.
The current mods are volunteers. No one is forcing them to do it, and when approached they can always say no. So why not offer the opportunity to the so-called community? It would, if nothing else, widen the pool of possible candidates.

Quote:
But heh, it is easier to bitch and moan about people who can't impliment changes, yet do actually volunteer their time to try to remind a site, of mostly adults (!), to stick to rules a child wouldn't find issue with.
There are two separate issues there, so will treat them separately.

1. Implementing changes - this has been an on-going issue for years now. However, there are some changes that are desperately needing address (the First Aid Forum being one of them), and were raised on the overhaul thread, but seem to have been ignored. There isn't much in the way of feedback or outcomes coming from that.

2. Regarding the moderating of the rules - there seems, to me at least, to be some confusion over whether or not we are treated as adults.

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Old 29-12-2015, 09:41 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by The One Who View Post
It seems to be a case of knowing the right people; why not open it to people to volunteer? And choose from that pool, which would certainly increase the potential number of mods.
So you are saying they should volunteer, then say they already do in your next comment?

And my point about mods saying ***** it was more aimed at the fact any time anything happens on the site the mods are blamed and dear gods it gets boring fast, why should they have to put up with it?

Andrew, Anna, your comments are <3



When she transformed into the butterfly,
the caterpillars spoke not of her beauty, but of her weirdness.
They wanted her to change back into what she always had been.


But she had wings.

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Old 29-12-2015, 09:43 PM   #17
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Oh, and why treat people like adults when they insist on acting like children?



When she transformed into the butterfly,
the caterpillars spoke not of her beauty, but of her weirdness.
They wanted her to change back into what she always had been.


But she had wings.

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Old 29-12-2015, 09:45 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by .Elphaba. View Post
So you are saying they should volunteer, then say they already do in your next comment?

I thi9nk, and I am very tired so may be missunderstanding, what people mean is that currently people are asked to be a mod and they say yes/no, they are volunteers in that they are not paid. However, people are suggestinmg that instead people could maybe put their names forward and then are selected out of that pool of people

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Old 29-12-2015, 10:07 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by .Elphaba. View Post
So you are saying they should volunteer, then say they already do in your next comment?

And my point about mods saying ***** it was more aimed at the fact any time anything happens on the site the mods are blamed and dear gods it gets boring fast, why should they have to put up with it?

Andrew, Anna, your comments are <3
They are volunteers in the sense they choose to do it. It is not a job and they can walk away at any time. The current "recruitment" process isn't at all transparent. Opening it up to the community to volunteer themselves via some sort of application would go some way to improving that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .Elphaba. View Post
Oh, and why treat people like adults when they insist on acting like children?
Why tar everyone with the same brush? Everyone is making the choice to read what they are reading or engage in whatever activity they engaging in. It is not for someone on the internet to say whether someone is "actively" engaging or not. I am all for a much more adult environment.

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Old 29-12-2015, 10:37 PM   #20
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Please note this response is from the team as a whole, rather than any one particular moderator. The thread was locked for the reasons stated in Ali's post.

Moderator action takes place in private but actions are always open to question by those on the receiving end of the action. However, allowing all members to discuss sanctions for wrong-doing publicly on the boards would amount to public humiliation. Sometimes people mess up and say things they regret and we believe in second chances and moving on, which would be difficult for a member if their comments were allowed to be constantly repeated across the boards and all members given the opportunity to vilify them. If you have a problem with any action that has been taken, please respond to your sanction PM asking for any clarification you need or to express your opinion. If you are still unhappy with a sanction you have received, please feel free to escalate to the Head and Deputy Head Moderators Cam (random.swirls) and Ali/Mali (Aardbei).

The moderators are lay people of this site who review each other's decisions. The team is now very diverse, with moderators who post across the differing forums and with members from different friendship groups across the site. Decisions are never made until three moderators agree, which is why sometimes it takes a little longer if there are not many moderators online. Even after that, if another moderator felt a decision was unfair they would challenge it, just as members can challenge it. We simply ask that you challenge this through the proper channels, as this will lead to a much more personalised response to your query.

If members are unhappy with the structure of the site and feel that it makes them unsafe, then we are very sorry that you feel that way. We feel that the system is what makes the site safe; wrong-doers are not publicly shamed for their actions and sometimes argument threads are closed to allow moderators to focus on acting on your other PMs where there are posts that you feel are triggering or make others unsafe. The post report system provides an approach to get community input on where they draw the line on rule breaking. Users report posts they feel break rules or could be potentially be distressing for the larger community. As a team we can then use to provide clarifications of rules or amend the finer details of what various rules entails. However no system will ever please anyone and if this does not work for you, we would suggest perhaps seeking support elsewhere if being here makes you feel unsafe.

Constructive feedback and suggestions for the site are welcome in FCQ, which this thread currently falls under so we will be leaving it be.





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