But families already work like that, a slap to your 7 year old brother is going to be punished differently to a slap to your newborn brother. Because the baby is more vulnerable. Similarly in a school, beat up the kid in a wheelchair and you will be punished harder than if you beat up an able bodied kid. Society has long functioned on the idea of protected characteristics.
So your saying a Goth is like a handicapped person?
Only insomuch as they're both more likely to be beaten up than your average member of society.
I agree - but they also chose to be goth because they like to stand out as differnt. Nobody is born a goth. I never liked being a "belonger" per se but I also never felt the need to adopt a style of any kind - and then expect society to make extra laws. Right now in the US there is a huge problem of mobs of black teens staging mini mob riots in big cities like Chicago. White kids become that target. There are no "hate crimes" being charged. "Hate crimes" in general are about tipping the scales of justice instead of just focusing on justice itself. Then one problem breeds another - like a car fishtailing. Now white kids getting beat up will be tempted to hate black kids more because they can get away with things they cant.
Isn't that a problem with how the law is implemented rather than with the very idea of hate crimes. I guess I feel there is something particularly pernicious with the idea of committing a crime against someone purely because of who they are and feel that it is right that creates a harsher sentence.
Isn't that a problem with how the law is implemented rather than with the very idea of hate crimes.
Yes but that's what happened most of the time. The reason for hate crime laws is usually a politician trying to curry favor with a group of voters. If beating up goths became a sure way of getting elected many pols would find a way to not oppose it.
I think the idea of a hate crime is a good one, but I do agree the categorization of it in crimes is not applied fairly. If it were simply "a crime where the person was targeted for a part of their identity or lifestyle", then I think it'd cover the idea of attacking an individual out of hate for a group they belong to or set of characteristics they have, in other words, it has nothing to do with the person who is being attacked. It's the hate for their connection to something, whether perceived race, religion, subculture, or even hobby. I really do think such a crime should carry a harsher penalty for two reasons.
One is the devaluation of the victim. Like I said, they are being attacked for something that is really not about them. If I hate goths or Asian people or whatever, because of some perception of them as a group, then I am not even valuing that person as an individual. I am categorizing their worth and my level of hate towards them based on things that have nothing to do with who they are. Everyone has a right to be judged as an individual, and hate crimes crush that right not only through judgement, but by actual violence.
My second reason is that hate crimes incite so much fear. Since you are being sentenced to violence based on things that have nothing to do with your character as an individual, there is little you can do to stop it. In the example of goths, the best you can do is change the arbitrary feature you're targeted for and live in fear, conforming to what won't get you assaulted or worse. That's basically terrorism in my opinion. Hate crimes incite fear of simply living the way you want, and they either coerce you to change or to hide from society if its something you cannot change.
So yes, I do agree the definition needs to be changed to include all kinds of discrimination. And I think it really takes empathizing with how it feels to be targeted for the types of stuff I described. What if it was having tattoos? The type of vehicle you drive? Having scars from self injury?... Etc.. Yes all those things you technically have control over, but do we really want a society where people have to live in fear and alter or hide things about themselves for no other reason than that they are afraid? I really think that's why hate crimes should be punished more harshly; because they cause damage in fear beyond the confines of the crime itself.
Stereotypes are the epitome of human laziness.
- me
But that doesn't make attacking someone because they are more vulnerable or have a 'deformity' or something any more ok. Not in my book. Those kind of crimes should also carry equal weight, as I believe.
It doesn't just xover goths, it covera any minority culture. Sophie was murderes simply vecause of the way she looked, should she have stopped being goth? Was she asking to be murdered for leading her life the way she wanted, causing no harm to anyone?
How many of us here have tried at some point or another tried to fit in, change ourselves so we fit in? I have tried so many times in my life and all it ever did was make me very umhappy.
Anyone who is targeted for being different should be protected
See I'd see targeting someone for a specific deformity or vulnerability as the same as race, etc... it's something you can't change and shouldn't have to hide out of fear. It would be included in how I think hate crimes should be defined. Pretty much when someone is being targeted for a characteristic that puts them in a group (like being disabled) rather than because of something a person actually has against the individual themselves or it being entirely random/of opportunity. In my opinion, if it creates fear for a group of people with a specific characteristic, it's a hate crime. If someone targets someone for no other reason than they are disabled physically or mentally, it fits this.
Of course this has to be proven, and I'm sure not all situations allow for proof of this kind of motive. But if this type of motive is proven, I think the penalty should be harsher.
Stereotypes are the epitome of human laziness.
- me
To clarify what I mean, it's the difference between robbing someone because they were in the place easiest to get away with it vs robbing someone because you hated what you perceived them to be based on a characteristic and wanted to make them suffer (could be fear and hatred of their race or religion, hating them for thinking a characteristic make them weak, etc). While the former is very wrong, the latter is far more damaging in the fear it creates in society, specifically other people who share the targeted characteristic.
Stereotypes are the epitome of human laziness.
- me
