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Old 01-03-2008, 09:56 PM   #21
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ah slateford, you have an asda nearby, you lucky. glad she stood, she will learn. nasty oldies.
another preggy lass from edinburgh i was talking to was telling me when she was 16 and her little bro was in the buggy, she tried to get on a lothian bus with him and the driver called her a dirty slag and drove off. needless to say he lost his job and she got a year free travel. she was really upset and crying but lucky for her a nice old lady - yeah a nice one - got his registration so it was easy to track down which driver and kick his butt out of there.





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Old 01-03-2008, 10:03 PM   #22
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yep, asda is awesome,when im less skint

i live like, right next to the matalan, but have never been there shopping -/ I need to go there soon

glad that driver got fired!! I had a driver drive past and wave once, but i didnt complain, cos it wasnt too long till the next bus anyways *shrugs*



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Old 01-03-2008, 10:06 PM   #23
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:11 PM   #24
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yus the cool leithers lol. except all the jakeys and bairns like the 'squarey boys' that hang around....the square.
matalan is cool! i like matalan it is cheap and cheerful.
i made a complaint about a driver cos he shouted at me that there was no tickets. was there a need to shout at me? fair enough he was probably fed up saying it but i was mad so i sat on the side seats beside his cab and when i caught him glaring at me i picked up my mobile and complained about him while he sat 2 feet away. typical LRT though, they didnt give a ****!





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Old 02-03-2008, 04:54 AM   #25
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On public transportation here, we have signs that say "Federal law requires this space be made available to seniors or persons with disabilities" for handicapped seats, and just "persons with disabilities" or "wheelchair users" for wheelchair space. There's definitely no exception for strollers, or anything else that people might want to put in that space.

The way the busses work in New York is a pretty good system - the wheelchair space is normally taken up by seats that the driver folds up if a wheelchair comes, so that way it's just a matter of asking people in the seats to move (which they have to, by law), and they wouldn't be folded up for anything else.

But in a lot of places in the US, the have paratransit, which is basically that their regular buses can't accommodate wheelchairs at all, so they have separate buses, which are supposedly "separate by equal" or whatever, but in reality, you have to call to arrange it in advance and in some places you also can't even have friends ride with you, so it's not basically a pretty bad deal.

At any rate, I think it's fine for someone in a wheelchair to have to wait if the bus is just entirely full, or the wheelchair space is taken up by another wheelchair, cause everyone has to wait for the next bus if the first one's full... but there's really no reason to not fold up a stroller. And hopefully the mom of the kid in the wheelchair in this case would have been willing to help the other mother fold up her stroller, but if not, I think it should be the bus driver's responsibility to help get the wheelchair space cleared, including helping fold up a stroller if necessary.



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Old 02-03-2008, 11:25 AM   #26
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yes i agree, i think that the driver should get out and help with the folding of a buggy. i know someone that simply hands their baby to the driver without asking if they have to fold their buggy. i would also hope that the person pushing the wheelchair would help, but often its just wheelchair users on their own, so they wouldnt be able to help in that situation.

i dont really see why buggys shouldnt be allowed in the space, i think we are all in agreement that if a wheelchair user needed the space then the buggy should be folded where possible. but in certain circumstances where it isnt possible, the person with the buggy suddenly becomes the most evil person that walked the face of the earth and given hell about it. i dont agree with that. as i said, having a baby isnt a crime that needs punishment, parents shouldnt be forced to feel like they are unwanted on public transport or that they should walk 10 miles to get to their destination to avoid causing slight inconvenience to others.
i think the main concern is people being rude and refusing to fold buggies when they could do so, but folk like that are few and far between.





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Old 02-03-2008, 12:16 PM   #27
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Mothers and there buggys demand they own the street where I live where as disabled people have to ask politely to move! So many times we've gone upto a lift only to find it full of people with buggies who just look like "What a shame no space for you cripple"! Deserve everything they get. Driver should not move from where he is because of danger from youths. If you have a buggy and can't fold it - WHY BUY IT? READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!
Wheelchair space - wheelchair users. Put on a 30 fine. If they don't pay up, have a nice walk.
Also Mothers barging in queues because there baby is crying? **** OFF. Get in line. Even worse are those waiting for a bus.

Disabled people get ignored by everyone. I'm glad she's taking action.

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Old 02-03-2008, 12:56 PM   #28
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I havn't read all the comments, but one of the early ones by Raven said about women with children been demonised. Surely this is down to the media. Pick up the paper, you'll read about the 'feral' youths. How society has gone downhill, and a load of other nonsesnse. Paedophilia, etc is portraid as a recent thing. hmmm, why are they digging up the area around a foster home and interviewing all those people who had been abused while there???

Power of the press. Its probably the same for those of you not in the UK, but the press is demonising the youth, society on the whole. They're creating a society where we fear to go out, we fear each other, we fear ourselves. They then virtually 'create' stories to write. They judge the many by the actions of a few. I'm 16, so according to the press i'm completely abnormal (i am, but what the hey...) cos i'm not doing drugs, not drinking alcohol 24/7, and not impregnating females. This is the image the media has created via the small sect of society. When i walk down the street, people tend to be fearful or extremely obnoxious.

As for demonising mothers, its probably because the media has created a situation where a baby is automatically associated with someone who hasn't had an education, has little prospects for the future, etc. Simply down to the press' own desire to sell more papers, get more attention, make more money. Whenever i read the paper/watch the news, i pick out the bits which are blatently discriminating.

Heres an interesting fact. Did you know, an oil tanker and all its crew go missing (out at sea) every week. How come we never hear about it through the press? You'll probably find its so common that they can't make money from it!!!

On buses, if the space says disabled, its there for the disabled. I agree that the puch chair should have ben folded up but not all of them do fold with just one person (unless your an expert juggler, but thats just cruelty to children :D). Why didn't the bus driver ask for any suggestions? Why didn't others on the bus offer to help the mother fold down the buggy? Surely, the media is creating a society as stated above!!! They have to much power and little regulation. Something somewhere should stop the press's discrimation and racism. They've even given the word immigrant a bad image. Even though, we're all immigrants somewhere down the line. I'm British, so i contain celtic, scandinavian, probably french, and much more 'mixed' blood from subsequent invasions. There is no such thing as a pedigree human. We're all mungrells. And i'm damn proud of it!!!

(i went off the point, but do i care?)


p.s that was a no. :D LOL



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Old 02-03-2008, 01:39 PM   #29
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The bus drivers in Glasgow are all really grumpy, I've only met one nice one who asked if I was ok when I got on and I was crying, ha.
I know how hard it is folding down a buggy with a baby but I refuse to believe no one would offer to help, well I don't know about Edinburgh buses but here in Glasgow there's usually a few people who are more than willing to help.

I offer my seat to quite heavily pregnant women, whatever their age. I don't for elderly people though,unless they're looking particularly decrepit. That might seem a bit mean but the majority of old people are twats, it's a bit of a generalisation I know but it's mostly true. So why offer my seat to someone who is perfectly able to stand for ten minutes just because they're face is sagging a bit?

But yes, back to the point which I went way off, if there is space the a person should fold their buggy down to make way for a wheelchair, but so often buses are so full that folding a buggy down is a near impossibility and so if that's the case there's no real bother n waiting for the next one.



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Old 02-03-2008, 01:46 PM   #30
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I believe there is somethng called manners!!!

That a good enough reason?

Buses aren't a regular thing for me, but if theres someone else who needs a seat more than me, or i'm getting off at the next stop. Then i always offer my seat if theres a shortage of space.


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Old 02-03-2008, 01:56 PM   #31
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I've had the same problem when catching a bus with a disabled friend. However, the reason we coulsn't get on the bus was simply because it was completely packed full, and the bus driver was very friendly and radioed through to the next bus to make sure they saved space for us (meaning that some people at stops before us were asked to wait in order for there to be space for my friend's wheelchair.

I agree though that buggies should be folded - it's not that difficult. Even a young child can be held. Most bigger pushchairs for younger babies have detachable carseat bits too which could easily be removed and put on a normal seat, allowing the base to be folded to make room for a disabled person.






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Old 02-03-2008, 07:31 PM   #32
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Don't get on a bus with a baby in a stroller that you can't fold up if necessary - simple as that. Unless the baby is somehow seriously ill or disabled (in which case it's entitled to the disabled space anyway), there are plenty of strollers out there that people can fold up, and there's no good reason not to have thought ahead and gotten one of those.

I certainly don't think mothers are evil or anything like that, but I often see people who expect everyone to just get out of their way to accommodate their kid to a very unreasonable extent. I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect people to put up with some amount of inconvenience from your kid, cause that's what kids do, but then there are some people who seem to think they're the only people in the world.

For example, there was an incident a while ago where a mother tried to sue an airline for making her and her child get off the plane so they could take off. The thing is, the plane waited an hour for her to get her kid in his seat before finally asking them to get off the plane. Other people missed their connections because of it, but she still expected them to just make everyone else on the plane wait indefinitely for her to get her kid under control, which to me is really unreasonably selfish.

Another example is crying babies on airplanes. Of course it's annoying to have to listen to a baby crying for the whole flight, but as long as the parents are doing everything they can to quiet the baby, it's not their fault - babies cry, and sometimes there's nothing to do about it. But sometimes I see parents who just let the kid cry and don't do anything about it, which is really unfair to the other passengers who have to listen to a crying kid the whole time.

And it's the same thing with brining a baby on a bus. There's nothing wrong with having a baby with you, but expecting to use the wheelchair space to the exclusion of an actual wheelchair user is past what's fair to expect other people to put up with. However, asking for help folding up the stroller isn't unreasonable at all as long as it can be easily folded.



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Old 02-03-2008, 08:30 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by InterstellaFunk View Post
Mothers and there buggys demand they own the street where I live where as disabled people have to ask politely to move! So many times we've gone upto a lift only to find it full of people with buggies who just look like "What a shame no space for you cripple"! Deserve everything they get. Driver should not move from where he is because of danger from youths. If you have a buggy and can't fold it - WHY BUY IT? READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!
Quote:
Originally Posted by InterstellaFunk View Post
Wheelchair space - wheelchair users. Put on a 30 fine. If they don't pay up, have a nice walk.
Also Mothers barging in queues because there baby is crying? **** OFF. Get in line. Even worse are those waiting for a bus.

Disabled people get ignored by everyone. I'm glad she's taking action.
I'm guessing you're not a parent then.

Deserve everything they get? That's a sad attitude to take. Having a buggy that can't fold isn't the fault of the parent; there are so many things that have to be taken into consideration when buying a buggy and frankly, going on a bus may not be the primary concern at time of purchase.

What about prams that can't be folded? Should a parent be denied going on a bus because of that? For some parents, buses are the only mode of transport when walking is no possibly (ie distance), so it may be a necessity to use a bus with a pram or buggy that doesn't fold; going to the doctors for example.

May i ask what is wrong with parents/carers using lifts or "taking up space"? They have just as much right to use public areas and facilities. I'm guessing you'd probably baulk at the sight of a woman breastfeeding in public too.

To also add; as a parent myself, i always try to be polite (smile, please and thankyou etc) but myself and members of my family (no buggys present) have almost been injured and run over by electric scoots used by the disabled. Please don't tar everyone with the same brush.

I was also going to add, strollers are only suitables from three months with some brands and others from six months, so you're essentially also discriminating against parents of younger babies. Also, those car seats on frames may be "easier" but they're bad for babies backs.

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Old 02-03-2008, 08:40 PM   #34
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I'm just going to upset everyone here and say both of you in wheel chairs and with buggies are as bad as one another.

Instead of pointing the finger at the cause. You point the finger at each other. *bangs heads together*

Why don't you lot realise that instead of competing for resources, more should be made available???



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Old 02-03-2008, 08:59 PM   #35
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Having a buggy that can't fold isn't the fault of the parent
It actually is entirely the parent's fault. The fact is, the parents choose what type of stroller they buy, and it really is their own fault if they choose one that can't be folded.

And btw, idk if 'stroller' has a more specific meaning in the UK, but in the US it usually means anything used to push a baby or small child, so that's what I mean when I say 'stroller.'



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Old 02-03-2008, 09:04 PM   #36
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May i ask what is wrong with parents/carers using lifts or "taking up space"?
I certainly see nothing wrong with people using elevators when they have a baby in a stroller. In fact, there are usually signs by escalators that specific say not to bring strollers on them, and to use the elevators instead.

But this one time, I was with a friend who uses a wheelchair, and we went to get on an elevator, and there was this family with a bunch of young kids, but none of them in a stroller and all plenty old enough to get on an escalator who told as the elevator was full and we'd have to wait for the next one. We went up the escalator. It's things like that - make the girl in the wheelchair use the escalator because you feel that your kids shouldn't have to for some reason - that I find obnoxious.



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Old 02-03-2008, 09:08 PM   #37
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These are strollers in the UK, and then there are buggys that aren't strollers if that makes sense, like this (as an example), of course, prams are prams.

Yes parents choose what buggy they buy, there are bigger things to consider than whether or not the buggy can fold! Also, prams, generally used for the first few months, often don't fold without taking up more space.

When a prams, buggys and travel systems can easily cost 500, do people honestly expect parents to buy one for every situation?

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Old 02-03-2008, 09:26 PM   #38
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I'm guessing you're not a parent then.

Deserve everything they get? That's a sad attitude to take. Having a buggy that can't fold isn't the fault of the parent; there are so many things that have to be taken into consideration when buying a buggy and frankly, going on a bus may not be the primary concern at time of purchase.

What about prams that can't be folded? Should a parent be denied going on a bus because of that? For some parents, buses are the only mode of transport when walking is no possibly (ie distance), so it may be a necessity to use a bus with a pram or buggy that doesn't fold; going to the doctors for example.

May i ask what is wrong with parents/carers using lifts or "taking up space"? They have just as much right to use public areas and facilities. I'm guessing you'd probably baulk at the sight of a woman breastfeeding in public too.

To also add; as a parent myself, i always try to be polite (smile, please and thankyou etc) but myself and members of my family (no buggys present) have almost been injured and run over by electric scoots used by the disabled. Please don't tar everyone with the same brush.

I was also going to add, strollers are only suitables from three months with some brands and others from six months, so you're essentially also discriminating against parents of younger babies. Also, those car seats on frames may be "easier" but they're bad for babies backs.
No, I'm not a parent. I'm a carer. I've got first hand experience at helping people who need to use a wheelchair. How they are ignored by everyone is sickening. Yet a mother with a pram expects the whole ****ing world to move aside because they have a baby. Although you love taking out little 'controversional' bits without the relevant subtext. I said they deserved what they get when they gave us there dirty looks at the lifts and they do deserve everything they get. Only fortunate that I was with people who can calm me down before I took action.

There were perfectly fine escalators that they can use if they fold up the pram. No excuse to deny a disabled person the ONLY method of getting to the car.

The issue here is not one of parenting. It's that an ignorant mother can't be arsed to fold up her bloody pram so that a disabled person can get on the bus. Not the drivers fault. They're to collect money and drive. It's the passengers responsiblity to make sure that the wheelchair space is available for wheelchair users and not ignorant mothers! So I say lets enforce that the wheelchair space is used by wheelchair users and not those too bloody ignorant to fold up a bloody pram by either charging them 30 and if they refuse, well like all unruly passengers, bye. Then they'll learn.

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It actually is entirely the parent's fault. The fact is, the parents choose what type of stroller they buy, and it really is their own fault if they choose one that can't be folded.

And btw, idk if 'stroller' has a more specific meaning in the UK, but in the US it usually means anything used to push a baby or small child, so that's what I mean when I say 'stroller.'
Exactly. No excuse.

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Old 02-03-2008, 09:27 PM   #39
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But this one time, I was with a friend who uses a wheelchair, and we went to get on an elevator, and there was this family with a bunch of young kids, but none of them in a stroller and all plenty old enough to get on an escalator who told as the elevator was full and we'd have to wait for the next one. We went up the escalator. It's things like that - make the girl in the wheelchair use the escalator because you feel that your kids shouldn't have to for some reason - that I find obnoxious.
Been there. Got the dirty looks. Totally agree.

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Old 02-03-2008, 09:28 PM   #40
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(jumping back to the buses)
bare in mind with having small children on parents knees ... is it really that safe? Buses have no seatbelts and if the bus driver wasnt driving too carefully (You have to hold onto the seat infront to stay on your own seat with a few drivers round here) then the infant could be seriously injured. Trying to hold your shopping secure on a bus can be hard enough as it is, never mind a child.
(as for te lift situation)
Also I do sympathise with both parents with buggies and wheelchair users. Both crack on constantly about being treated fairly and I personally think that it should be a case of - wait your turn - like everyone is "supposed" to. So if a disabled person and a parent with a buggie (not parent, buggie and several friends) were waiting for the lift I personally believe whoever got there first should get in. If the parent is with friends, the friends should have to use the escalators/stairs and meet them at the "other end".


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