This thread has got quite over the top now... why don't people agree to disagree?
Some think Autism can be helped by CBT, others disagree, but people are not saying it IS a mental health disorder/illness, just some aspects can be helped through methods like CBT.
And people with autism DO have emotions and feelings. I've been to a special needs school where many have autism and they have emotions/feelings. They just have trouble with showing it, but that does not mean they don't have any.
I think this is pretty indicative of why I clash with people on the forums. Myself and the other girl with Asperger's (sorry, I don't know your name) were actually having a very good conversation, and as far as I know neither of us was annoyed at the other - I also agreed with her point - so I don't know why you have to be so authoritative and interfere! Just because I don't post f*cking smileys every few sentences and agree within one post doesn't mean I'm being over the top.
What kind of RIDICULOUS statement is "And people with autism DO have emotions and feelings"? WHERE DID I SAY OTHERWISE? Did you read that I have the condition? Oh for f*cks sake. (Am I showing my feelings well enough?!)
Last edited by someoneiusedtoknow : 11-08-2009 at 02:39 PM.
In time I have come to accept that it is not something that is "wrong" with me, I am just different. Which is why I find it almost offensive when people refer to autism as a mental illness, as I'm sure you understand.
Yeah, exactly. I haven't had any direct support either, but I read about the condition and now I'm more aware of how I'm different, and more able to adjust my behaviour occasionally, but other people are still mostly a mystery to me.
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Originally Posted by Patchwork
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that schools need a massive amount of training and education in the area of autism and ASD's. Having my behaviours and needs realised as those of an AS child I perhaps would not have the mental health issues I have today. Almost ALL of the people affected by AS that I have spoken with have admitted it has been a constant battle to get their child or themselves the help and support they need to complete any kind of normal education.
Yes, definitely. I really wish this would change. I also wish autism services would be more about what's best for the child, rather than what's best for society/his parents (i.e. trying to make them behave, rather than happy).
ASD should not be lumped into MH because they should not be treated by Mental Health Services that encourage people to talk about their feelings when autistics lack that capacity.
I believe you said it there, they lack the capacity, and they do NOT lack the capacity.
And I said this is getting over the top, meaning this thread has gone all over the place, so take it PM if you two are having a conversation? I think this thread run it's course a few posts back.
I believe you said it there, they lack the capacity, and they do NOT lack the capacity.
And I said this is getting over the top, meaning this thread has gone all over the place, so take it PM if you two are having a conversation? I think this thread run it's course a few posts back.
Jeez, chill. :L
I did not and NEVER WOULD say that because I have Asperger's!
" encourage people to talk about their feelings when autistics lack that capacity." if you spoke English you'd realise that says they lack to capacity TO TALK ABOUT their feelings. That is your misread, not my mistake.
Why should we take it to PM when it's relevant? Please go away.
I too thought that a productive, informative conversation had developed. As far as I can see there is no need to "agree to disagree" as nobody has disagreed. People have simply been informed that they are misguided or ignorant. Personally I feel that this is an important conversation, especially for those who are affected by an ASD. I can see some people have been a little touchy, but this is a sensitive subject. I think it's important to realise that most of us who are affected by an ASD have been damaged to some extent by other peoples ignorance, so obviously emotions are going to run high on such a subject.
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Yeah, exactly. I haven't had any direct support either, but I read about the condition and now I'm more aware of how I'm different, and more able to adjust my behaviour occasionally, but other people are still mostly a mystery to me.
I found books and information on AS and ASD's very useful, as did many people around me. Knowing HOW I was different, and realising how other people saw me and interpreted my behaviour was.. enlightening. I find it difficult still to understand people. I do think carefully about my behaviour in public or in certain situations, but mostly I tend not to adjust my behaviour to suit everybody else. I inform people of who I am and the way I am, and if they can't open their minds and accept me as I am, I don't bother.
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I also wish autism services would be more about what's best for the child, rather than what's best for society/his parents (i.e. trying to make them behave, rather than happy).
I think that's a slighty difficult issue, because so many children with ASD's don't understand what is meant by "behaving". In their eyes they are not misbehaving, they're simply misinterpreting what they've been told they are expected to do.
Also, I understand why you say this, as I've said above, I don't go out of my way to change myself to make other people happy, but I do also think that people with AS or an ASD do need to be taught how to control their behaviour and their emotions, and to understand others in order to have a normal life. It's not realistic to expect them to be able to live life in the same way as everybody else, which I'm sure most of them want, if they don't have basic understanding of how to live and interact with others. By this I mean basic social skills and organisational skills, understanding how to take care of themselves, knowing how to deal with their feelings etc.
"you're telling me I'm stuck here with you?"
"No.. I'm stuck here with you."
I think that's a slighty difficult issue, because so many children with ASD's don't understand what is meant by "behaving". In their eyes they are not misbehaving, they're simply misinterpreting what they've been told they are expected to do.
Also, I understand why you say this, as I've said above, I don't go out of my way to change myself to make other people happy, but I do also think that people with AS or an ASD do need to be taught how to control their behaviour and their emotions, and to understand others in order to have a normal life. It's not realistic to expect them to be able to live life in the same way as everybody else, which I'm sure most of them want, if they don't have basic understanding of how to live and interact with others. By this I mean basic social skills and organisational skills, understanding how to take care of themselves, knowing how to deal with their feelings etc.
Oh yes, I do think they should learn to integrate in order to function happily in society, but that the balance should be moved more towards them being happy children, rather than trying to make them conform to certain standards (rather like my feelings on medicating children with ADHD). Generally, learning to fit in and be social/non-disruptive will make them happier, ultimately, because they learn to make friends and cooperate with other members of society - I just have issues with people who want to "cure" their children.
And I said this is getting over the top, meaning this thread has gone all over the place, so take it PM if you two are having a conversation? I think this thread run it's course a few posts back
I don't see why we should take this conversation anywhere else, it's not private.. and as I've already pointed out I feel it important that people understand what we're trying to say. Yet again, people are ignorant and uninterested in the difficulties we face. Just to be sure I'm making it perfectly clear, I found your comments offensive and rude.
If you don't want to read it, don't, nobody's forcing you.
Also, maybe you should take more time to read and understand what is being said before you comment.
"you're telling me I'm stuck here with you?"
"No.. I'm stuck here with you."
You're not the only one who suffers from difficulties, kay?
& I do speak English thanks, people with autism CAN talk about their feelings and emotions, it's not all that rare.
I also find both of your posts rude and offensive, but whatever.
People get threads closed because people hijack it with something unrelated to the original post, the original post was asking if they had autism, I think that has been answered.
I just have issues with people who want to "cure" their children
Yeah, I understand. There's nothing wrong with people who have an ASD, they are simply different. I think mostly people are just ignorant, and think that their children can be made "normal" after being diagnosed. Being realistic, this is never going to happen, and I don't undersand why anyone would want it to either.
"you're telling me I'm stuck here with you?"
"No.. I'm stuck here with you."
You're not the only one who suffers from difficulties, kay?
I also find both of your posts rude and offensive, but whatever.
People get threads closed because people hijack it with something unrelated to the original post, the original post was asking if they had autism, I think that has been answered.
1. I know.
2. Sorry you feel that way, but I was answering your accusations and it felt like you were picking on me for absolutely no reason, which I hate.
3. It's not unrelated, it's about autism.
Also about the "you're not the only one who suffers from difficulties, kay?" I think there is enough sympathy given to those with MH problems on these forums and it's very important that people with autism are finally cut some slack. The fact you've attacked both of us for being "rude" when we have a condition that actually makes it quite hard to identify when someone is being rude (you can research this if you like) is pretty damn unfair.
What am I apologizing for? I don't think I've anything to apologize for.
I think either way, I am addressing what you've said, people with autism can talk about their feelings, it may be difficult to do so, but I know people who have autism that have talked about how they feel.
I think either way, I am addressing what you've said, people with autism can talk about their feelings, it may be difficult to do so, but I know people who have autism that have talked about how they feel.
I'm sure some people with ASD's do talk about their feelings, but most find it exremely difficult or fail to do so at all without the right support and understanding. What was actually being said was that we fail to understand and express our feelings as most people do, so talking about them is very difficult. We were not saying it was impossible for us to talk about our feelings simply because we have AS.
Also we are not all the same because we have an ASD. We are as individual as the rest of you, we just have something in common. Just because you know of someone with AS who can talk about their feelings, doesn't mean everyone with one will.
I'm also finding the fact that you are telling us, who have AS, what is or isn't achievable for people with ASD's, highly offensive. Tell me, do you have an ASD? Are you educated at all on the matter? Do you have any understanding at all of Asperger's or other autistic spectrum disorders at all?
Last edited by Red Rain : 11-08-2009 at 03:50 PM.
"you're telling me I'm stuck here with you?"
"No.. I'm stuck here with you."
I'm sorry for misunderstanding. The original post I was referring to said that people with autism lack that capacity, I was addressing that some people with autism can talk about their feelings, but I know that it is hard for most, if not everyone, with autism to do so.
I can't speak for Nil but I appreciate the apology. It's easy to misunderstand or misinterpret what people are trying to say, especially in forums, so apology accepted as far as I'm concerned.
"you're telling me I'm stuck here with you?"
"No.. I'm stuck here with you."
I think ASD services should be separate and MH pros should be trained to refer someone outside their system and INTO an ASD specific system if they exhibit any of the symptoms, not keep them in MH and believe they are depressed or awkward.
They are.
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Originally Posted by Nil
Offering compassion to someone with autism is very different to offering it to someone without. I would rather have had no "support" than had them interfere with my life and well-being.
That's you. As much as you like to think of yourself as the all knowing expert and speaker for people with autism, you aren't. A lot of people with autism do want and need the support. A girl who used to live with me had quite severe learning difficulties and autism, and was totally reliant on the support she got. She definately needed and wanted and craved it.
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Originally Posted by Nil
You wouldn't have an unmedicated schizophrenic talk to a counsellor who had never heard of schizophrenia, nor should someone who is untrained in the field of autism ever try to offer advice to them: our brains are wired differently and there is no room for discussion on that.
I am yet to hear of a MH professional who has never heard of autism.
And I'm sorry but the "people with autism lack the capacity to talk about their feelings" is an absolute joke. I have worked with people with ASDs who have been perfectly able to say how they feel. My uncle with Aspergers sees a counsellor, is often telling us how sad he is, are you goping to tell him that he is wrong, and he doesn't have the ability to say that?
Yeah, sorry, I forgot that my experience never happened. Did you actually read anything I wrote?
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Originally Posted by Daffodill
That's you. As much as you like to think of yourself as the all knowing expert and speaker for people with autism, you aren't. A lot of people with autism do want and need the support. A girl who used to live with me had quite severe learning difficulties and autism, and was totally reliant on the support she got. She definately needed and wanted and craved it.
Yes, of course they want support. Just not that KIND of support! Not the kind that presumes everyone can articulate it as brilliantly as someone "normal". Not the kind of MH support that people with actual MH conditions receive. They need autism-specific support, not the "support" I was forced into.
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Originally Posted by Daffodill
I am yet to hear of a MH professional who has never heard of autism.
My psychiatrist had never heard of Asperger's Syndrome so, again, you're talking about things you don't understand and have no experience of.
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Originally Posted by Daffodill
And I'm sorry but the "people with autism lack the capacity to talk about their feelings" is an absolute joke. I have worked with people with ASDs who have been perfectly able to say how they feel. My uncle with Aspergers sees a counsellor, is often telling us how sad he is, are you goping to tell him that he is wrong, and he doesn't have the ability to say that?
How old is your uncle? I doubt he's a teenager with undiagnosed autism who's never received support for it. People grow up and learn social skills and communication skills. Those who spend a lot of their life undiagnosed are less likely to learn these skills to the same degree unless they're particularly high-functioning. The people you have met with ASDs have clearly been DIAGNOSED with them, and that would mean they've received some kind of support in that area, and been TAUGHT to express their feelings.
I am finding it so frustrating that some people have the audacity to tell me I'm totally wrong about my own condition. Yes, all people with ASDs are different and some have learnt to articulate themselves. What you fail to understand is that this doesn't come naturally and is, in fact, one of the primary symptoms of ASDs in the first place. I would appreciate it if all the non-autistics stopped weighing in on something they can't understand (I don't tell people with BPD how to behave and that they're wrong).
I am yet to hear of a MH professional who has never heard of autism.
Whislt MH professionals have heard of autism, very few seem to have grasped even the very basics. For instance, a close friend of mine has Aspergers, she went to a school that specialised in autism, and they sent her to a counsellor, who did the whole metaphorical stuff, you know, the story about the bean sprout, the potato and the onion in a boiling pot, onion peels, sprout... not quite sure what that does, can't remember (and can't cook) and the potato boils from the inside... in deal with feelings which one are you? This was obviously a pretty dumb thing to say to someone with aspergers, my friend was left asking people how the hell could you be an onion/how the hell can an onion feel?
And I'm sorry but some people may have been helped enough by people, or be at a particular part of the spectrum, or learnt a lot, but generally, even the criteria of aspergers states lack of emotional reticience, and specifically lack of emotional reciprocation in social situations.
