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Old 25-11-2007, 07:34 PM   #21
Fightstarter_Karaoke
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Lulz. But fuh srs, unless you're going to tell businesses to hire inferior British workers to their foreign-born counterparts, you can't stop any thing.
The BNP are narrow not because I disagree with them, which I do, because their "views" do not stand up to scrutiny economically, logically or ethically.

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Old 25-11-2007, 08:03 PM   #22
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This thread is...tricky, its a difficult topic as it is as a lot of people feel so strongly about the principles that the BNP represent which are highly controversial and offensive to a lot of people. There do seem to be two sides to the argument here though and I dont think you're reading the two arguments correctly which is why it starting to get heated which is what we really want to avoid.

Some of you are discussing the BNP themselves whereas some of you are discussing whether they are have the right to voice their opinions or not. Please try to read each others posts and respect each others opinions.

Thank you!

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Old 25-11-2007, 08:24 PM   #23
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I'll repeat what someone else said.
This thread isn't about whether you agree or disagree with the BNP or not, it's about whether they should be allowed to voice their opinions.





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Old 25-11-2007, 11:12 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by em. View Post
Oh, I also forgot something, about the immigration thing, basically, I don't think stopping immigration is the way forward, I just think that making life harder for people to just come over here etc would maybe help somewhat.

& really no one can argue with e saying it's really hard b'cos, at the end of the day, why don't people go elsewhere? cos it's too easy to get everythin free over ere.
Seconded.

I am with Em with this, I don't know if I could have said it better, well maybe, considering I can type properly :P

With any luck though, the people the BNP are talking to will have sense and brains to see what it is, maybe, maybe not.


I wouldn't vote for the BNP personally, but, tighter immigration laws do make me happy, who ever imposes them. (Y)

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Old 25-11-2007, 11:14 PM   #25
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Yeaaaaah. We have all the nurses/builders/labourers we need right here.
Thanks to immigrants.

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Old 25-11-2007, 11:14 PM   #26
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They are facist f*cks. Simple as.
and even facist f*cks deserve the right to say what they want.

You cannot tell people they don't have a right to an oppinion, at least, you cannot do that and then call someone else narrow minded. This isn't about racism it's about freedom of expression - governments cannot opress peoples ideas and minorities deserve the right to speak.

I think it's ironic that when, in the UK, ethic minorities who have suffered at the hands of opression, discrimination - etc, "one rule for white people, one rule for everyone else" in the past, are often the same people trying to OPRESS, and DISCRIMINATE AGAINST, and create different rules for people with different, and minority political veiws.

IMAGEN if the government banned the BNP from talking. . . IMAGEN if the governemtn inprisoned people for racist veiws? Some people might think "about ****ing time". How long before they ban another veiw point? Another minority from talking, from meeting, from voting, from having their beleifes? Homophobes? They're a minority... Fox hunters? They're an minority. Black people? A minority... oh wait we're back where we started!

What sort of societys opress peoples points of veiws? Democratic societys... or dictatorship societys? What sort of people try to opress political partys? Urm... Nazis anyone? Isn't that EXACTLY what they did? Oh wait... we're back where we started.

Juneau, please don't think I don't sympathise with what you are saying. There are days when I think 'why can't we just stop some people spreading hatred? Why can't we just not let people like that say their abusive *****'.

The answer is simply, I suppose you must lead by example. If I don't treat racists how I'd like to be treated, how can I excpect racist white people to treat non-white people how they'd like to be treated? How can we hope to end discrimination by discrimination? How can we teach people whilst we opress them?



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Old 25-11-2007, 11:23 PM   #27
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It is just sick to hand out cds outside schools where kids are going to be easily influenced. I'm aware racism will never die anywhere in the world, how on earth could it. You can't check every household to make sure they're not putting words into their kids ears and mouths.

I know we all have the right of "freedom of speech" but honestly, the BNP are worthless f*cks.

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Old 25-11-2007, 11:32 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by em. View Post
But why's is sick to hand out Cd's?
Would it be sick for another party to do the same?

Effectively, they are a party trying to gain votes, they have as much rights as the others do.
But as despicable as some of the other parties may be (i.e. the tories), they don't advocate a reduction in human rights, less democracy, widespread war and institutionalized racism.
In essence, the BNP want to get elected to destroy democracy, other parties simply want to take it in different ways.

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Old 25-11-2007, 11:35 PM   #29
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But why's is sick to hand out Cd's?
Would it be sick for another party to do the same?

Effectively, they are a party trying to gain votes, they have as much rights as the others do.
I suggest you listen to the so called "music" they are making. Maybe you'll see it, maybe you won't.

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Old 25-11-2007, 11:39 PM   #30
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But that really isn't the issue.

I might not agree with Labour's policies but if I said that they shouldn't be allowed to express their views or try and gain votes, then I'd be attacked for not supporting freedom of speech

You can think they're "disgusting" or "despicable" all you like, and you can campaign against them, but saying that they shouldn't be allowed to express their opinions is an entirely different thing. And no-one has made any attempt to explain why it wouldn't lead to greater censorship. Or are you in favour of that, too?

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Old 25-11-2007, 11:42 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by em. View Post
But it's not to do with what they say, what their views are, at the end of the day it's as simple as they have a right to campaighn [sp?] wherever they like...really...
But allowing people to campaign against democracy would destroy it?
Just like I ask my friend for an opinion as to what I should wear, but I wouldn't pay any heed to the friend who tells me to wear nothing. Catch my drift?

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Old 25-11-2007, 11:46 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juneau View Post
It is just sick to hand out cds outside schools where kids are going to be easily influenced. I'm aware racism will never die anywhere in the world, how on earth could it. You can't check every household to make sure they're not putting words into their kids ears and mouths.

I know we all have the right of "freedom of speech" but honestly, the BNP are worthless f*cks.
I think the issue isn't whether people should be allowed to have their own views, it's how they should be able to express those views.
I mean, someone talking at a political debate about what they think, or talking about it with their friends, is different to handing out CDs to easily influenced children, etc..
Just what I think anyway.



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Old 25-11-2007, 11:47 PM   #33
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Quote:
Just like I ask my friend for an opinion as to what I should wear, but I wouldn't pay any heed to the friend who tells me to wear nothing. Catch my drift?<!-- / message -->
Er, no.

And if they're voted in, then that's hardly un-democratic, is it?
And the fact is that the majority of people who oppose them being allowed to speak at Oxford, or at all, really, appear to be basing that on the fact that they just don't agree with their "racist" or "homophobic policies".

eta:
Quote:
I mean, someone talking at a political debate about what they think, or talking about it with their friends, is different to handing out CDs to easily influenced children, etc..
But um, this thread was started off about whether the BNP guy should be allowed to speak at Oxford University, not about them handing out CDs, so the issue is very much whether they should be allowed to express their opinions - and the fact that comments like "they shouldn't be allowed to have freedom of speech" have been said, kind of backs that up. So really, that is exactly what the issue is.

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Old 25-11-2007, 11:52 PM   #34
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This country and others need parties like the BNP in order to motivate people to get up off their arses and do something about it. Otherwise, no one would vote and only the minorities views would be heard.

I also think that they should be allowed to talk at Oxford Union- somehow i think the people there have the intellectual capacity to make their own minds up on what they are saying.

Extreme or even different views are needed to produce an uprising of the opposing view. Its how many political parties or movements are formed.

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Old 25-11-2007, 11:54 PM   #35
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http://www.greatwhiterecords.com/Music.htm

That's their record label/music site.

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Old 26-11-2007, 12:01 AM   #36
Jukebox
 

One of the guys is in prison that's one of the "singers"
Oh, I wonder what for.

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Old 26-11-2007, 12:02 AM   #37
Fightstarter_Karaoke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whispers View Post
And if they're voted in, then that's hardly un-democratic, is it?
Yes it is. Democracy has to be safegaurded, in order to protect against the majority enslaving the minority.

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Old 26-11-2007, 12:04 AM   #38
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Lol, those songs are actually pretty awful.

But no-one here has said that they really agree with the BNP's policies, and no-one is denying that their racist. That isn't the issue; all we're arguing for is their right to express themselves, and posting a link to their music doesn't really make for a good argument against that.

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Old 26-11-2007, 12:09 AM   #39
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I posted the link so people could hear what they are saying, NOT for any other reason. Jesus.

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Old 26-11-2007, 12:10 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Fightstarter_Karaoke View Post
Yes it is. Democracy has to be safegaurded, in order to protect against the majority enslaving the minority.
Righttt. So communists shouldn't be allowed freedom of speech, either? I wonder, where do you draw the line between "protecting democracy" and oppression? And besides, even if they were to come to power - which they won't - they're not about to scrap democracy, nor would they be able to.

Quote:
Q: Are you against democracy?
A: No. We are for more democracy. If the British people had their views represented in government and public affairs, many of the bad things that have happened to this country would never have happened! Mass immigration to the point where the native British people will become outnumbered in their own country would never have happened, capital punishment would never have been abolished, the sell-off of our freedom and independence to Brussels bureaucrats would never have taken place, and whole areas of our country wouldn't have been turned into a foreign country. It is the lack of democracy, and the emergence of a ruling political class in which a minority of self-serving career politicians impose their views which is the problem. A completely democratic government system will be the cornerstone of Britain's future under a BNP government. We are against the present sham of 'democracy' in which whatever way people vote they get the same. We offer an alternative - as democracy is supposed to do - and for that the self-serving left-liberal elite accuse us of being undemocratic! Yet, in reality, by seeking to deny voters a choice, and by gagging free speech with so-called ‘Race Laws’, it is our opponents in the old parties and in the media who are the anti-democrats, the real fascists.
I'm not saying I agree with it. But like, they're not actually anti-democracy or anything.

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