I know I'm not really a Christian, but I had a question that I thought I should ask.
I've heard of quite a few instances of Christians telling self-harmers that they would go to hell for it, and well, I guess I was wondering if such attitudes are very common among the Christian communities. It's just that when I heard about it, I was very worried for the self-injurers who would hear it and possibly decide against seeking help...
Hlessirah....i'm sure there are certain christians who would say that...but they're wrong to say that. i'm a christian and i deal with it and the few ppl at my church that know about it are very supportive in helping me stop but never once said i was going to go to hell for it....they just thought that it was wrong and hurtful to myself and they wanted to help me get better
now...what christians will say is that if you aren't saved then you will go to hell...and i know it sounds "narrow minded" or whatever to some ppl but its what we believe...but everyone can go to heaven if they just give their life to Jesus...that's christianity in a nutshell lol =) but i guess to really answer your question...it just depends on what church you go to i guess...but the ones who look at you and automatically say that you're going to hell because you si don't know the meaning of love and they should figure that out before they start preaching at you or anybody else... =)
oh and waiting in the dark....i kinda disagree...i think that every person has to actually surrender and accept the salvation god has given us before we're saved (by grace you have been saved through faith i don't know the reference lol...) but i agree its not by communion or baptism or good works...and after somebody is saved i agree that you can't lose your salvation (and that includes suicide) once saved always saved
I have been brought up in the Catholic faith but I didnt start properly believing until a few years ago. I went to a Christian youth group and the minsiter was really inspiring so from there on I developed my faith. I rely on God for so much, he saved me from myself. I still self harm but I now know that he is there for me to pick me up when times get bad. I dont feel so along anymore.
i've been christian off and on my whole life... but i have prayed and prayed for SI to go away and it never has. i do everything people tell me to do to get "closer" to God. i don't get why something that christians call a "sin" would be something i can't stop doing. i was a christian when i started, and the only reason i started cutting was cause thoughts kept coming in my mind to cut would not go away for anything. i just don't feel like it's fair. or that god just might not be there. because why would he allow a mental disorder to cause me to "sin" (or so certain christians say), and not heal me of it when i asked over and over, go to therapy, take meds, try to get close to him, go to church, and so forth, basically doing everything i can.
ok enough whining... i know most people on this thread believe in god, so why hasn't he helped me at all? it seems like i did best when i wasn't even christian. i figure maybe someone here has an answer i've failed to think of.
fatal perfection -depending on the reason you SH i don't think it's a sin. not that it's good, btu it's not soemthing God blames you for. as for the thoughts and healing... read this http://www.ronrolheiser.com/index.php the guy basically says, God doesn't always give answers, but in a more intelligent and helpful way than i can (it's not long).
I don't want to seem like I'm giving a glib answer here, but you are far from the only person who has been in that situation. I mean, look at Paul: "To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong."
2 Corinthians 12:1-10.
Why? Don't know. He does, though, and you have the choice to either accept that or rebel. Go read Job. He asks 'why' over and over again...and at the end of the book, God answers him. Not his question, though. We all have things we struggle with, it makes us human. But it doesn't make God any less God.
I also want to state that self-harm IS a sin. Lysamena has compiled a wonderful resource at selfharm.org that deals with this subject...
also, a fellow worker for christ has put together the website bloodgod.org, which also deals with self-injury (and other, darker topics that many 'christians' won't go near).
oh, and a side note...I think it would be a good idea to try and avoid debates over dogma on this thread. It kind of takes away from the whole purpose. We are trying to build people up, not tear them down. So I suggest we respect that we will disagree on things and focus on what we have in common, and not what we don't, in the spirit of maintaining unity...
but if you are going to post about something controversial, at least back it up with scripture. that way we can avoid some of the dogmatical positions that ...don't really have any ground to stand on. i'm trying to be tactful here and not offend anyone, but don't just go around accepting theories that people on the internet have! :)
dazedandconfused: that wasn't aimed at anyone specific :) i was just looking back over the last page or so...it's one thing for people to have questions about a specific view point or disagree with something someone else says. you're allowed to disagree, and you *should* mention that as long as it's in a loving way, because it helps people be aware of all the sides of an issue. i just don't want this thread to turn into a soapbox where we're all trying to convert each other to a specific brand of christianity. i love you all because you're my brothers and sisters, and I don't want to see silly bickering drive people apart and prevent the important issues from being addressed. we all agree on the important stuff: God loves us, died for us, and wants wholeness in our lives.
"I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ." Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power."
Obviously we are not going to agree on every doctrinal detail. But, that isn't what's important here. It doesn't matter if you follow the Pope or John Wesley or Billy Graham or Rob Bell or Shane Claiborne or Bono of U2, or if you're a purist that follows "the bible and only the bible". What matters is that we not let the cross of Christ be emptied of its power, and that happens when we become divided over silly issues like predeterminism or transubstantiation. It's Jesus that matters.
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
I was wondering if anyone has ever been on a Christian retreat here?
I have been on a few over the years and have found them to be quite helpful. Unfortunately at the moment I can't get to my favourite place for a retreat, but am thinking of going somewhere close by for a few days quiet away from 'everything'.
I was wondering if anyone here had any good reading recommendations whilst on one - it would be individual not led and wouldn't necessarily have to be Christian books to read, but easy going not too taxing on brain cell.
CS Lewis wrote a really beautiful story called "Til We Have Faces". Not many people have read it, but he considered it his masterpiece and I have to say, it's one of the most moving stories I have ever read. It isn't specifically Christian, actually it's a retelling of Cupid and Psyche, but it's retold as an allegory about the Christian life. My words cannot do this book justice. Really. Even if you don't read it on your retreat, you should pick up a copy and read it at some point.
Becca: I go to such retreats quite often, they are good when you want to just calm down a bit and be with God and yourself. As for what to read, my taste is a bit weird and childish - I'd say you take one of the books from the collection about Narnia. It's light reading, but the point is big.
God helps us - he gives us opportunities to do things right. If you ask God to stop your SH, He gives you the opportunity to do it yourself.
i did ask... and i CANNOT stop. no matter what, i always end up doing it. thoughts come into my head sometimes for and sometimes without a reason to SI and it's SO strong i pretty much have to. so how do you know god gives everyone a chance? maybe just whoever you're basing that off of (yourself/others) was lucky? i'm not trying to be mean, but it's kinda hard when people say that god gave you a chance when they don't know you and you've tried sooo hard to stop. it's like saying i know god did this to you even though i have no clue who you are and you must not be trying hard enough or be a good enough christian. kinda like when people say you're not healed cause you don't have enough faith. how do they know? i'm not saying you're trying to sound like that, it's just how it comes across to me.
following the cs lewis theam
Mear christianity
Living with questions by dale fincher
venti jesus please by greg stier
Then wear the gold hat, if that will move her;
If you can bounce high, bounce for her too,
Till she cry "Lover, gold-hatted, high-bouncing lover,
I must have you!"
Thomas Parke D’Invilliers
i did ask... and i CANNOT stop. no matter what, i always end up doing it. thoughts come into my head sometimes for and sometimes without a reason to SI and it's SO strong i pretty much have to. so how do you know god gives everyone a chance? maybe just whoever you're basing that off of (yourself/others) was lucky? i'm not trying to be mean, but it's kinda hard when people say that god gave you a chance when they don't know you and you've tried sooo hard to stop. it's like saying i know god did this to you even though i have no clue who you are and you must not be trying hard enough or be a good enough christian. kinda like when people say you're not healed cause you don't have enough faith. how do they know? i'm not saying you're trying to sound like that, it's just how it comes across to me.
I've asked many, many, many times for the strength to stop and I still haven't been able to do it. It's such a hopeless feeling-- esp. when you feel like your prayers aren't being heard at all. That's all I'll say publicly but if you want to talk more email me: luv0817@yahoo.com
I'm afraid there isn't an easy answer. The people that write on this thread are not the folk that have it all sorted, no-one is in a position to judge, we all struggle.
Having depression, self-harming, these are not signs of lack of faith. Anyone can have these problems, Christians included.
I truly believe you when you say that you can't stop and it is hard, it really is. God doesn't say that he will heal everyone, and when he does sometimes it takes a really long time. What he does promise is that he will be with you, and that he will give you strength.
Stopping is not easy, it's hard work and best done with some support. Do you have any support from doctor / cpn/ friends / family? Someone you can talk things over with?
I've been struggling for a long time now, to be honest. When things were really at their worst I couldn't figure out what was going on at all, what God was up to... I was suicidal, in hospital, self harming every single day. It took a long time, but things did get better, although I'm not totally well. Being in hospital, getting the right meds eventually, friends and folk from church, all these things were part of helping move forward.
I'm not totally sure what kind of reassurance you're looking for, mostly cos I'm having trouble reading cos I'm dead tired and my concentration is shot.
Hang in there
Last edited by Artychik : 22-09-2008 at 01:11 AM.
Reason: adding
fatalperfection: i'm sorry you're having such a rough time right now. maybe it will help you to hear that God is not asking us to be successful. He is only asking us to try to be. none of us will judge you for being unable to stop. I struggled for years to stop, and finally did, and then was pulled back into it again and it was years again before I could stop. and i couldn't do it on my own, either: it was only through a long, painful process where God brought my soul back to life that I was able to stop. when we say that everyone can stop, we aren't trying to say that everyone--ANYONE--can do it on their own. He loves you--he isn't the kind of father who's gonna give you a rock if you're hungry. he's healing your soul all in his own time, and he's gonna make everything right in the end. it hurts. i know it hurts. during the years i struggled to stop it seemed like all around me there were people who seemed able to just...give it up, with no problems. it could be that it just isn't time yet. i'm here if you want to talk about it, because sometimes that can help, especially if this is causing feelings of hurt or resentment or guilt. there is nothing wrong or defective about you that isn't wrong with every other person on this planet. you are no worse than the best person on earth, or better than the worst. it isn't because your faith is weak or because he doesn't love you--it's because he does love you, and this is what's best right now even if you can't see it. for me, it took a long stuggle to teach me how weak i really am, so that i could depend on god. i am not the type of person that trusts people easily, or asks for things from anyone. i've been hurt, and it's messed me up. struggling for all these years has taught me a lot of things, one of which is that god doesn't love us because we're good, or perfect, or do things for him...he loves us because we're us. he died for us while we were still his enemies. not being able to stop for so long taught me that god loves me, even when i can't stop, can't be good or perfect or even close. he's still there, still in control, and he's got you in his hands...
life sux at the moment the stress of highschool is catching up with me. ive been going down the road that leads to an ed and i soo want to cut.
Then wear the gold hat, if that will move her;
If you can bounce high, bounce for her too,
Till she cry "Lover, gold-hatted, high-bouncing lover,
I must have you!"
Thomas Parke D’Invilliers
