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Old 16-02-2012, 01:10 AM   #21
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I think we should do away with gender segregation all together. In my local swimming baths there's just a large changing area with cubicles. There aren't separate cubicles for men and women. It's much better. I wouldn't be too fussed if there were "male", "female" and "neutral" bathrooms / changing rooms. I'd certainly be a lot happier using the neutral one as I'm genderqueer. Tend to get started at regardless of which bathroom / changing room I use.



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Old 16-02-2012, 02:27 AM   #22
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My secondary school didn't even have separate changing rooms for males and females for the swimming pool. There was simply one large changing room divided up into cubicles for people to use.



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Old 16-02-2012, 06:33 AM   #23
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I like the idea of not segregating gender at all. Gender and sexuality is so blurred way beyond what people used to think fit into two neat boxes. That's just not reality. So I think bathrooms that allow privacy, like cubicles, and have nothing to do with gender are the way to go. Any women's restroom I've been in is always segregated, it's always sounded so odd that men use urinals in front of each other. I really think we need to get away from the idea that there are two distinct genders and one sexuality. It's not the case and only causes more problems. If we focused on making bathrooms/changing rooms private rather than gender specific, people wouldn't have to worry about anyone staring at them sexually and people that don't fit into those neat boxes would not be made to feel so awkward and sometimes face actual violence over something so easily solved.



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Old 16-02-2012, 07:04 AM   #24
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Agree with most points e.g it would just enforce segregation, mark someone out as different (imagine if certain people saw someone going in or coming out of a transgender toilet or changing room, I doubt they'd necessarily treat them with an open mind) and another good point was that trans male and trans female might not want to change together.

However I really don't like the concept of gender neutral toilets 0.o Does anyone else feel this way? I'm trying to pinpoint what it is that bothers me about them (aside from certain gentlemen having less than perfect aim ;-p)



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Old 16-02-2012, 01:00 PM   #25
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However I really don't like the concept of gender neutral toilets 0.o Does anyone else feel this way? I'm trying to pinpoint what it is that bothers me about them (aside from certain gentlemen having less than perfect aim ;-p)
Same. The only ones I've seen are where the sinks are all together, but the actual toilets are at separate sides. The fact is that male and female toilets are so different; it's not like a changing room which are just benches and cubicles.

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Old 16-02-2012, 02:09 PM   #26
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However I really don't like the concept of gender neutral toilets 0.o Does anyone else feel this way? I'm trying to pinpoint what it is that bothers me about them (aside from certain gentlemen having less than perfect aim ;-p)
I was a bit iffy about common toilets when it was first mentioned too, but then I thought, disabled toilets, and places where there is only one or two toilets (like petrol stations and small cafes and the like), those are common, and both men and women use those, so wouldn't it be similar enough?

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Old 16-02-2012, 10:09 PM   #27
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I just feel like its more segregation rather than intergration!x
I agree.
But I like the idea of a third changing room etc.
Apparently there is supposed to be a 'third gender' soon anyway. I wouldn't call it 'transgender' but 'neutral' so everybody can go in there.
I heard somwhere that kids that were born without obvious gender can be raised 'neutral' and that they can decide what kind of games the want to play and what changing room they want to use in the future.
I don't know how things like that are managed in the UK but in Germany they do surgery immediately after birth and the dr. decides what gender the child is going to have from first impression.



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Old 16-02-2012, 10:43 PM   #28
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i don't mind too much about mixed changing rooms so long as there are cublicles but then i like cubicles in female changing rooms too. the trend for communal changing rooms seems to be going away in shops and so on. But toilets are a different thing. I hATE mens toilets. 9I have been known to end up there accidentally or deliberately if it's an individual one at the doctor's ot something) I just find mens and boys toilets too smelly. - sorry guys! disabled toilets tend to be diferent because they're not used as much.
As for a third changing room, - I don't know. There would need to be a forth if we go down that route - male, female, transmale and transfemale but what about people who don't want to openly declare themselves trans?

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Old 16-02-2012, 11:31 PM   #29
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i don't mind too much about mixed changing rooms so long as there are cublicles but then i like cubicles in female changing rooms too. the trend for communal changing rooms seems to be going away in shops and so on. But toilets are a different thing. I hATE mens toilets. 9I have been known to end up there accidentally or deliberately if it's an individual one at the doctor's ot something) I just find mens and boys toilets too smelly. - sorry guys! disabled toilets tend to be diferent because they're not used as much.
As for a third changing room, - I don't know. There would need to be a forth if we go down that route - male, female, transmale and transfemale but what about people who don't want to openly declare themselves trans?
Toilets are a different thing? How exactly? Many workplaces don't even have separate toilet facilities for men and women especially smaller businesses with limited space. 3 of my previous workplaces had unisex toilet facilities simply because there wasn't the space to go around installing extra rest rooms. My university halls of residence also had unisex shared bathrooms there were two bathrooms shared between 8 residents on the floor mix of guys and girls. Also when you live at home, visit friends or relatives you don't have separate lavatories for men and women everyone just shares the ones available.

The secondary school near me (now an academy school) has also installed unisex toilets for all pupils because it discourages bullying, smoking, etc. The toilets themselves are individual sealed cubicles that open out onto a large open plan area with sinks/hand dryers/mirrors/etc this area is monitored by members of teaching staff during breaks.

Personally I think the long term trend will be an expansion of unisex facilities with a greater onus on individual privacy, i.e. sealed individual cubicles.


Last edited by Rhuben : 16-02-2012 at 11:37 PM.


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Old 17-02-2012, 12:43 PM   #30
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Toilets are a different thing? How exactly? Many workplaces don't even have separate toilet facilities for men and women especially smaller businesses with limited space. 3 of my previous workplaces had unisex toilet facilities simply because there wasn't the space to go around installing extra rest rooms. My university halls of residence also had unisex shared bathrooms there were two bathrooms shared between 8 residents on the floor mix of guys and girls. Also when you live at home, visit friends or relatives you don't have separate lavatories for men and women everyone just shares the ones available.

The secondary school near me (now an academy school) has also installed unisex toilets for all pupils because it discourages bullying, smoking, etc. The toilets themselves are individual sealed cubicles that open out onto a large open plan area with sinks/hand dryers/mirrors/etc this area is monitored by members of teaching staff during breaks.
Do you not think the fact that there is a staff presence there is what discourages bullying and smoking, rather than the area being unisex?

When there is only one or two toilets I think it's fine for it to be unisex, but if there is going to be a lot or if it is going to be a busy area, I'd prefer it to be single sexed. If for no other reason that each sex needs different things; guys seem to prefer urinals, girls need sanitary bins and cubicles. A living area like a home or a halls of residence is a different situation, because it's not being used by the general public.

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Old 18-02-2012, 07:11 PM   #31
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I'm just going to butt in here with my feelings on the subject. When trans* people are first coming out they may not feel that they can 'pass' so well so changing in the rooms for their chosen gender could lead to abuse and people saying horrible things and basically telling them to get out because they aren't that gender. Same thing with toilets too. The only way I think to combat this is having gender neutral toilets and changing rooms. Also, there are people who identify as a third gender/neutrosis/etc. so the gender neutral idea would also be there for them and benefit them.
It would not be outing anyone either like having a trans* changing room would, I mean people are gonna see you going into it and coming out, and as some trans* people are stealth about it, and don't want to be outed as trans* for various reasons, it could actually be detrimental.
I'm not quite sure if that is understandable but if not I can always elaborate.
I know that I try to use the disabled toilet where possible as that is not generally gendered because I feel really weird using gendered toilets.




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Old 19-02-2012, 10:45 PM   #32
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Do you not think the fact that there is a staff presence there is what discourages bullying and smoking, rather than the area being unisex?

When there is only one or two toilets I think it's fine for it to be unisex, but if there is going to be a lot or if it is going to be a busy area, I'd prefer it to be single sexed. If for no other reason that each sex needs different things; guys seem to prefer urinals, girls need sanitary bins and cubicles. A living area like a home or a halls of residence is a different situation, because it's not being used by the general public.
Well all the cubicles in the new toilets do provide sanitary bins so it's not like people are now lacking in facilities that they need.

I really don't get the fuss at all about people wanting separate facilities for the sexes/genders. Individual privacy is still preserved (and if anything has improved) because all of the cubicles are effectively self contained rooms, no one can look under the door or over the top like you could in the old style toilets. So if anything people should feel more comfortable about using them.

People are only weirded out by the concept of unisex facilities due to years of segregated upbringing in society that has imparted on them that the sexes need to be kept apart. A left over relic of the 1800's.

In any case the old toilets were too small, numerous and spread out in order to maintain a permanent staff presence during break times. And there was a real problem of older girls using them effectively as club houses and intimidating younger girls that came in. By creating fewer but larger facilities it allows for a more permanent staff presence. Also discourages vandalism and unsanitary behaviour because people feel a greater need to tidy up after themselves if they think someone of the opposite sex may use the facilities after them. Girls apparently used to stick used sanitary towels to the walls, and likewise guys would leave drips on the seat/floor but people seem to have stopped that now.


Last edited by Rhuben : 19-02-2012 at 10:50 PM.


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Old 28-10-2012, 01:37 AM   #33
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Most of the trans people I've met would probably rather a unisex changing room with lots of segregated cubicles for all to use, rather than a "trans changing room". After all, some trans people might not be 'out' so they wouldn't want to use it in case someone they know sees them. I fear that something like this might only lead to violence, as transphobic people might deliberately go in there just to harass (sadly, there is still quite a bit of anti-LGBT violence going on).

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Old 28-10-2012, 09:54 PM   #34
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Wow. Zombie thread much?




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Old 28-10-2012, 10:37 PM   #35
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I would just like to say that Alex Salmond is a twt.



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Old 28-10-2012, 10:57 PM   #36
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Wow. Zombie thread much?
We do encourage people to bump threads rather than start a new one on the same topic.




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Old 29-10-2012, 12:53 AM   #37
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Wow. Zombie thread much?
It's only 8 months old...




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Old 29-10-2012, 04:26 PM   #38
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Sorry guys, I was just going through the News & Debate forum and thought I'd respond to this. I didn't really take note of the date...

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Old 29-10-2012, 04:46 PM   #39
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No need to be sorry,you didnt do anything wrong.x




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Old 31-10-2012, 12:26 AM   #40
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I didn't mean any offence. Yeah, of course it's better to bump it than make a new one.




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I felt emotions of gentleness and pleasure, that had long appeared dead, divide within me. - Frankenstein.


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