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Old 24-06-2012, 02:49 PM   #41
talaiporia
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As far as I can tell (correct me if I'm wrong), the petition is essentially against the idea of 'upgrading' Civil Partnerships to equality with Marriage. There are several (controversial) things that they state:
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Although death and divorce may prevent it, the evidence shows that children do best with a married mother and a father.
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If marriage is redefined, those who believe in traditional marriage will be sidelined.
People's careers could be harmed, couples seeking to adopt or foster could be excluded, and schools would inevitably have to teach the new definition to children.
If marriage is redefined once, what is to stop it being redefined to allow polygamy?
Honestly, the whole thing sounds incredibly homophobic, and far from being about the redefinition of marriage, seems to be aimed at criticizing and side-lining people who are not straight.

I know I'm not Catholic, but I'm CofE, and I've never once heard any of my fellow Christians, or any of the Chaplains, Reverands etc. saying anything remotely homophobic. Christianity is about open-mindedness, and tolerance and I find it hard to understand how supposedly good people can be so adamantly against something that would have little impact on their life, but would greatly benefit other people.



It doesn't matter where you come from; it matters where you go.
No-one gets remembered for the things they didn't do.
We won't all be here this time next year,
so while you can take a picture of us.
We're definitely going to hell,
but we'll have all the best stories to tell.


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Old 24-06-2012, 10:10 PM   #42
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With regards to confirmation, I never felt I had a choice. I imagine it's because Ireland is a very Catholic country, but I don't know anyone who chose not to make their Confirmation. I mean it was pretty much what we were educated on for the whole year. Everything was about Confirmation. It wouldn't have been an acceptable thing to turn around and say you weren't making it, and we were never actually presented with a choice about it anyway.

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Old 24-06-2012, 10:21 PM   #43
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I was prevailed to confirmation, I felt like I didn't have a choice but our young minds would not know any better anyways... that is, if we received the sacraments at a young age.

They are toying with the young minds, they drive them into false teachings.
They are narrow-minded with their views and when I say "they" I mean the Catholics who hold uptight beliefs against the world and think they're correct politically and spiritually.


Last edited by Vanished-point : 24-06-2012 at 10:26 PM.


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Old 25-06-2012, 01:24 AM   #44
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I don't really see the problem with getting kids while they're particularly impressionable, filling their head with homophobic bullshit, masking it as 'religious freedom' so they think it's completely within their rights to stand proud and deny a huge portion of society the right to be treated equally. Not to be treated particularly wonderfully, no. To be given the same rights and social standing as any heterosexual person.
I mean it's not like homosexuals are capable of actual real love or any other such feeling, IS IT?!



These women are robbing this baby of a normal childhood. The poor bairn, LOOK AT IT'S FACE! Looking to the skies clearly saying "SAVE ME JESUS, THESE LESBOS ARE WELL ODD"

Disgusting.


Ahem.

God forbid the church brings it's teachings into the 21st century, they gloss over so much of the outdated stories in The Bible, women and ethnic minorities have a fairer standing these days (ofcourse still NOWHERE near to being as equal as a white man) why do they insist on continuing to hammer home how awful homosexuality is, when the entire world around them is changing their view for the better?


GAWD.



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Old 26-06-2012, 05:31 AM   #45
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homophobia = epic fail.

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Old 31-07-2012, 01:39 PM   #46
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What is wrong with gay marriage? Nothing makes someone happier then when two people falling in love and getting married. People should be allowed to have a life with the person they love.




my people had a saying long ago: “the healer has the bloodiest hands.” you cannot treat a wound without knowing how deep it goes. you cannot heal pain by hiding it. you must accept. accept the blood to make things better.


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Old 31-07-2012, 01:41 PM   #47
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What is wrong with gay marriage? Nothing makes someone happier then when two people falling in love and getting married. People should be allowed to have a life with the person they love and it wrong to say who they can and can't marry




my people had a saying long ago: “the healer has the bloodiest hands.” you cannot treat a wound without knowing how deep it goes. you cannot heal pain by hiding it. you must accept. accept the blood to make things better.


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Old 31-07-2012, 01:43 PM   #48
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Quote:
What is wrong with gay marriage?
Exactly. Nobody gets harmed, nothing bad happens.

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God forbid the church brings it's teachings into the 21st century, they gloss over so much of the outdated stories in The Bible
As a Christian, I feel that people (including religious leaders) pick and choose which bits to follow - ignoring all the bits that are banned, like swearing, shellfish, pork, etc. - and making a massive deal out of homosexuality, which as far as I can tell, comes from a poorly translated phrase, which we're still not entirely sure what it actually *meant*.



It doesn't matter where you come from; it matters where you go.
No-one gets remembered for the things they didn't do.
We won't all be here this time next year,
so while you can take a picture of us.
We're definitely going to hell,
but we'll have all the best stories to tell.


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Old 31-07-2012, 09:43 PM   #49
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Just on the topic of being raised religious, to me the difference between being raised an agnostic and being raised in a religious sect is that being raised as agnostic (on the whole) you're taught to consider, to challenge and to question. There's nothing stopping you from converting to religion. When raised in a religious group, you are taught to obey, to serve and to love God. If you decide to give up that religion you're threatened with with eternal damnation.

Both preach love, but I'd far rather be raised being allowed to make my own decisions than be raised being told what is right.

Obviously I'm talking in ideals here; I'm well aware that some agnostics/atheists can be utterly dismissive of religion which is naturally going to affect the child, and I'm also well aware that both teach love and treating others as you'd like to be treated etc.

The gay marriage thing is just ridiculous. Christianity is a religion which is supposed to teach love. If you don't believe that people should be together and happy, regardless of gender, because of the bible then also don't mix cloths, don't work on the sabbath, don't chop meat on the same board you chopped vegetables, don't dare be near men and you're menstruating.

Ofc I'm well aware that there are millions of religious people in favour of gay marriage and I have full respect for them; it just feels like such a cop-out to hide behind a very loving and peaceful religion for your homophobia.

Edit: Blah, I know, I have to wade in late with my opinion about everything. sorry guys.

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Old 31-07-2012, 09:52 PM   #50
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Jo, I have to disagree with you that religious children are raised to simply obey God. A lot of parents want their children to explore their own faith, and find their own 'path'. Strictly atheist (or humanist) parents can teach their children into obeying science and dismissing religion or faith as being for the mentally weak and/or stupid.

I know you acknowledged that point, but I think it's important to point out. Every family, whether religious or not, will raise children in different ways, and this upbringing will naturally mould their adult thoughts.

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Old 31-07-2012, 09:59 PM   #51
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I see your point Claire, but I still feel that you're not questioning the premis on which you're making judgements, you're finding 'your way' with something already accepted. That also puts a lot of pressure on children who don't feel that they've found 'their relationship' with god to conform to what their church/religious leader/youth leader/parents think.

You may 'obey' or have faith in science, but when scientists make mistakes and be found out to be wrong, it changes the accepted theory. You're taught (again in my ideal science lab) that nothing is certain and that science changes with observation and evidence.

Def accept that agnostic parents can (and do) teach children that they're somehow superior to religious children though, and as I said, I do think I've got the ideal agnostic parent in my head who clearly doesn't exist! And def to your last point about no matter what their upbringing it will shape their adult thoughts. It's why I'm terrified of having children at the moment - that's a lot of responsibility you carry. (That, and I also can't keep a basil plant alive at the moment so I've no idea how I'd cope with something more serious!)

Edit: Sorry again for being contrary and I'm aware we've gone quite off-topic now.


Last edited by Dreaming. : 31-07-2012 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 31-07-2012, 10:09 PM   #52
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In my (limited) experience, religious parents are quite happy for their children to question God and to question religion generally. Of course, my area is very Protestant and most churches here are of the, er, modern(?) kind, so that may be colouring my opinion somewhat. Different religions (and different denominations) may have a different outlook, but I think it's more of a personal parental decision, rather than a religious one.

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Old 31-07-2012, 10:25 PM   #53
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Though I was bought up vaguely religious (semi-CofE mother, lapsed Catholic father) my twin ended up Atheist (or Buddhist, depending on the day) and I ended up "very Christian". Open mindedness exists in all beliefs, as does closed mindedness, and sweeping assumptions are never fair.

Neither is discrimination; whether on race, religion or orientation. People are people. If no-one is hurt, leave it alone.



It doesn't matter where you come from; it matters where you go.
No-one gets remembered for the things they didn't do.
We won't all be here this time next year,
so while you can take a picture of us.
We're definitely going to hell,
but we'll have all the best stories to tell.


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Old 31-07-2012, 10:29 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talaiporia View Post
and sweeping assumptions are never fair.
Teehee. I like the sweeping assumption on the comment about sweeping assumptions. But yes, I hear you.

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Old 05-08-2012, 01:39 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by The One Who View Post
In my (limited) experience, religious parents are quite happy for their children to question God and to question religion generally.
I know you know this, but that's only your experience and I think that if you look at religion in the world in general, a lot of children are NOT allowed to show any kind of questioning - I'm thinking about Muslim girls in particular as well as Catholic etc children. There are religions that continue to punish anyone who shows signs of too much independent thought.

However, I agree that a private Catholic school can expect its pupils to follow the Catholic faith and the church can refuse to marry anyone if it doesn't want to. I'm sure if I turned up in any church/synagogue/temple etc and said hi I'm an atheist but I want to marry a man in here cos it's pretty - they would be perfectly entitled to refuse me if they wanted.



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There are only two ways in which one can live their life. One is as though nothing is a miracle, the other is as though everything is.


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Old 05-08-2012, 01:45 AM   #56
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Quote:
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Teehee. I like the sweeping assumption on the comment about sweeping assumptions. But yes, I hear you.
Ahh, lol. Would've vaguely worked if I'd put rarely. *facepalm*



It doesn't matter where you come from; it matters where you go.
No-one gets remembered for the things they didn't do.
We won't all be here this time next year,
so while you can take a picture of us.
We're definitely going to hell,
but we'll have all the best stories to tell.


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Old 05-08-2012, 12:29 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by effervescence View Post
I know you know this, but that's only your experience and I think that if you look at religion in the world in general, a lot of children are NOT allowed to show any kind of questioning - I'm thinking about Muslim girls in particular as well as Catholic etc children. There are religions that continue to punish anyone who shows signs of too much independent thought.
I know, I was just saying that it's unfair to paint out the religious parents as being unyielding in their child's beliefs, when atheist and Humanist parents can be just as bad.

Quote:
However, I agree that a private Catholic school can expect its pupils to follow the Catholic faith and the church can refuse to marry anyone if it doesn't want to. I'm sure if I turned up in any church/synagogue/temple etc and said hi I'm an atheist but I want to marry a man in here cos it's pretty - they would be perfectly entitled to refuse me if they wanted.
They would probably tell you that you need to become an active member of the faith and of the faith community before they'll consider marrying you there. Of course some will be fine with doing it, but will certainly charge you enough for it!

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Old 06-08-2012, 06:25 AM   #58
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So true.



Even as the stone of the fruit must break
that its heart may stand in the sun,
so must you know pain.

There are only two ways in which one can live their life. One is as though nothing is a miracle, the other is as though everything is.


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