*Caution, this is a race sensitive issue, please be respectful, refrain from insulting comments, or racial slurs during this discussion*
After acquitting George Zimmerman, there are a lot of tempers flaring about the verdict.
Many people argue that this case has been compromised due to Trayvon Martin being a victim of racism and profiling. The verdict of "not guilty' I feel was wrongfully decided and overly forgiving in my opinion due to the nature of the crime.
I'm personally not black nor racist; however, I believe if this case was about a black man killing a white 17 year old boy, things would have gone very differently.
When we throw all racism accusations aside, general terms, there was an unnecessary murder committed. This man is not innocent, regardless of however they want to dress it, George Zimmerman still killed a 17 year old boy. Had Zimmerman not pursued this young man, he would not be dead today.
I feel this was clearly the wrong decision and this guy simply got lucky by managing to beat the very flawed criminal justice system.
What are your opinions on the verdict?
*Please note this is a race sensitive topic, so please be kind and portray your opinions in a respectful way to all*
The problem with court cases is the jury must be 100% certain - "beyond all reasonable doubt". If they had found him guilty he would have faced 25 years in jail. There is no middle ground, no "he's probably guilty, let's give him 10 years" option. From what I've read of the case, it would have been difficult to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that he fully intended to shoot that boy when he approached him, and that he wasn't merely defending himself.
The defense have some pretty damning evidence to the contrary; the gunshot residue showing the boy was leaning over him, the head injuries Zimmerman sustained. The two men were involved in a scuffle, and the gun was fired; everything else is unknown because the boy isn't alive to give his side, and there were no witnesses. Florida in particular has strong self defense laws, and with that in mind, yes, I think the jury made the right call. I don't think there was enough evidence to prove him guilty. That is not to say Zimmerman is innocent, but that our legal systems require 100% certainty on guilt; anything less is not-guilty.
It doesn't matter where you come from; it matters where you go.
No-one gets remembered for the things they didn't do.
We won't all be here this time next year,
so while you can take a picture of us.
We're definitely going to hell,
but we'll have all the best stories to tell.
As a CHL (concealed handgun license) LEO in training and as a law abiding american citizen and who has researched this case quite a bit.. in the eyes of the law zimmerman didn't break any laws yes he followed martin but he disengaged when told to. he didn't start a fight he was attacked he was having his head bashed against the ground by a unprovoked male he feared for his life and thought he was gonna die which authorizes someone according to the "Stand your ground law" to use deadly force if you must.
personally im sickened by the media portraying treyvon as sweet and innocent and using pictures a few years old and nothing current i also hate that the black panthers said they were gonna cause a riot and looting if zimmerman got off. which there has been riots already search oakland riots on google.
Last edited by Phoenix Of Destiny : 15-07-2013 at 05:20 AM.
My take is they both probably contributed to the shooting, but regardless, the justice system is what it is. Flawed.
No verdict will change the fact that George Zimmerman is and always will be a murderer. What he did may be currently defined as legal, but it will never be moral or ethical.
Also, FL is crystal clear on the fact that you can't claim self defense on a situation YOU instigated. There was evidence that Zimmerman was following Martin. There was evidence that it was Zimmerman who approached Martin.
There was evidence that the altercation began with words being exchanged. There was evidence that Zimmerman never identified himself as being with Neighborhood Watch. There was no evidence Zimmerman's head was banged on concrete either, since his injuries were inconsistent with those claims.
I don't know the story, so I may be out of line saying this, but we are all very quick to jump to racial motives in a situation like this.
People are very sensitive to racism these days, you can be accused of being racist for the slightest little thing, so for their decision to be influenced any way by the race of the people involved, would be picked up immediately, and they would have known this.
I'm fine! Totally fine. I don't know why it's coming out all loud and squeaky, 'cause really, I'm fine!
As a CHL (concealed handgun license) LEO in training and as a law abiding american citizen and who has researched this case quite a bit.. in the eyes of the law zimmerman didn't break any laws yes he followed martin but he disengaged when told to. he didn't start a fight he was attacked he was having his head bashed against the ground by a unprovoked male he feared for his life and thought he was gonna die which authorizes someone according to the "Stand your ground law" to use deadly force if you must.
personally im sickened by the media portraying treyvon as sweet and innocent and using pictures a few years old and nothing current i also hate that the black panthers said they were gonna cause a riot and looting if zimmerman got off. which there has been riots already search oakland riots on google.
Zimmerman was not brutally attacked and he did not have his head "bashed" against the ground, and this claim was found inconsistent with the evidence. Infact no injurys were originally reported they were "added in" to the police report later. He did not fear for his life and he did not think he was going to die. He had a slighty bloody nose and a small scratch on his head, not even close to the "brutal beating" he claimed. On the phone to the police he said he lost sighting of trayvon. He deliberatly went looking for him and persued him. He followed an innocent kid and killed him. Trayvon was found face down away from zimmerman, consistent as if he was walking along the pavement, doing nothing and was shot by someone following him.
Various witnesses, as young as 13 were pressured by police into changing their statement to "fit in" and make trayvon look guilty.
The lead homicide investigator told a witness he didn't think it was self defense.
Personally I am sickened by the fact that people could even think a man with a history of violence towards police officers and domestic violence (zimmerman) is more innocent that a poor kid who has done nothing wrong.
Zimmerman is also known for filing many complaints and consistently calling police about his growing multi ethnic community even if they have done nothing wrong or didn't even look suspicious.
The "stand your ground" law is frankly ridiculous and needs to be changed.
There was another murder in florida recently, a man at a gas station was shot because he refused to turn down music in his car. The man who shot him claimed he was being threatened with a gun, but police couldn't find anything in the car that even LOOKED like a gun. He claimed the "stand your ground" law.
And yet a black woman who fired warning self defense shots against her physicall abusive partner got 20 years?
Wtf America.
Zimmerman should at the VERY least have been found guilty for manslaughter.
Every single news article I've read has said he had head injuries consistent with being smashed into concrete, including witnesses, forensic evidence and the doctor's testimony. In fact, the conclusion of those was that his story was backed up by evidence. The question in doubt was whether he instigated the fight by using racial slurs to provoke the boy.
To prove manslaughter, you have to prove that he deliberately engaged the young man in a fight and shot him, not in self defence, and with 100% certainty. The case has little conclusive evidence, and has turned into a big he-said-she-said, which means it's impossible to know what happened.
And perhaps the "stand your ground" law is ridiculous; studies show death and injuries have increased due to it, but it is law, and that means that if there is a possibility that Zimmerman shot the boy in self defence, any possibility at all, then he must be found not guilty under the legal system. Not guilty does not mean innocent, it just means there was not enough evidence to find someone guilty.
It doesn't matter where you come from; it matters where you go.
No-one gets remembered for the things they didn't do.
We won't all be here this time next year,
so while you can take a picture of us.
We're definitely going to hell,
but we'll have all the best stories to tell.
I'm personally not black nor racist; however, I believe if this case was about a black man killing a white 17 year old boy, things would have gone very differently.
If this was a black on white crime you would have heard no national news about it at all. The only reason Zimmerman went to trial is because of racist hustlers like Al Sharpton etc This case was really nothing special aside from the intentional attempt by media and Obama administration to make it a racial case to divide people. For months they tried to portray Zimmerman as white when he isn't - Martin as a little innocent angel when he wasn't. Nor was Zimmerman acting as a "cop" but walking to a store. Alan Dershowitz the famous liberal lawyer said the prosecutor was the worst he's seen in fifty years. The media has gotten every fact about the case wrong. For me its the dumbest thing I've ever seen get this much attention. I stopped following the case last year once the real facts became known. No jury with half a brain could have rendered a guilty verdict in this case. The prosecutor overcharged (she's known to do that) and tried to alter the charge at the end of the trial. She s a disgrace to the profession and so is the judge.
Here's a case of a black woman who killed a 12 year old white boy with a torch. You heard nothing about that case. "Activists" were protecting the murderer.
If this was a black on white crime you would have heard no national news about it at all. The only reason Zimmerman went to trial is because of racist hustlers like Al Sharpton etc This case was really nothing special aside from the intentional attempt by media and Obama administration to make it a racial case to divide people. For months they tried to portray Zimmerman as white when he isn't - Martin as a little innocent angel when he wasn't. Nor was Zimmerman acting as a "cop" but walking to a store. Alan Dershowitz the famous liberal lawyer said the prosecutor was the worst he's seen in fifty years. The media has gotten every fact about the case wrong. For me its the dumbest thing I've ever seen get this much attention. I stopped following the case last year once the real facts became known. No jury with half a brain could have rendered a guilty verdict in this case. The prosecutor overcharged (she's known to do that) and tried to alter the charge at the end of the trial. She s a disgrace to the profession and so is the judge.
Here's a case of a black woman who killed a 12 year old white boy with a torch. You heard nothing about that case. "Activists" were protecting the murderer.
never heard of the case of joshua chellew [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvtHP_r2hV0"]Joshua Chellew Killed - No National Coverage - YouTube[/ame]
Zimmerman was not brutally attacked and he did not have his head "bashed" against the ground, and this claim was found inconsistent with the evidence. Infact no injurys were originally reported they were "added in" to the police report later. He did not fear for his life and he did not think he was going to die. He had a slighty bloody nose and a small scratch on his head, not even close to the "brutal beating" he claimed. On the phone to the police he said he lost sighting of trayvon. He deliberatly went looking for him and persued him. He followed an innocent kid and killed him. Trayvon was found face down away from zimmerman, consistent as if he was walking along the pavement, doing nothing and was shot by someone following him.
Various witnesses, as young as 13 were pressured by police into changing their statement to "fit in" and make trayvon look guilty.
The lead homicide investigator told a witness he didn't think it was self defense.
Personally I am sickened by the fact that people could even think a man with a history of violence towards police officers and domestic violence (zimmerman) is more innocent that a poor kid who has done nothing wrong.
Zimmerman is also known for filing many complaints and consistently calling police about his growing multi ethnic community even if they have done nothing wrong or didn't even look suspicious.
The "stand your ground" law is frankly ridiculous and needs to be changed.
There was another murder in florida recently, a man at a gas station was shot because he refused to turn down music in his car. The man who shot him claimed he was being threatened with a gun, but police couldn't find anything in the car that even LOOKED like a gun. He claimed the "stand your ground" law.
And yet a black woman who fired warning self defense shots against her physicall abusive partner got 20 years?
Wtf America.
Zimmerman should at the VERY least have been found guilty for manslaughter.
i suggest you read more reliable news sources cause everything i seen and heard shiws him head injuries.. so your saying martin was walking away when zimmerman shot him ?... dont make since then cause they proved the gun was discharged from 2-4inches from martin do to power burnss and other factors.. also id like to see where you found info where LEO's were pressuring people into giving false statements...
as for the black woman i know nothing of the case but unless she thought her partner was gonna kill her and can prove that rationalizing she had no right to discharge her firearm and also any gun training you take says not to do warning shot cause itll lead to more trouble if you have to discharge it aim to kill.
The media will NOT have access to all the evidence, and depending on which news you are taking in, the story will be slanted slightly differently.
Being on a jury isn't easy, especially not in a case like this. You essentially have a man's life in your hands. It's not like a game of Cluedo where you guess and if you get it wrong then it doesn't matter. They have to be sure. It's so easy for armchair juries to say "He's guilty", but you aren't sitting there considering ALL the evidence and the fact that you could be sending an innocent man to his final destiny.
I'm just glad we don't have loose cannons wandering round armed with guns in the UK. If Zimmerman hadn't of had a gun, then one or both of them would be up on assault charges and that's all.
i suggest you read more reliable news sources cause everything i seen and heard shiws him head injuries.. so your saying martin was walking away when zimmerman shot him ?... dont make since then cause they proved the gun was discharged from 2-4inches from martin do to power burnss and other factors.. also id like to see where you found info where LEO's were pressuring people into giving false statements...
as for the black woman i know nothing of the case but unless she thought her partner was gonna kill her and can prove that rationalizing she had no right to discharge her firearm and also any gun training you take says not to do warning shot cause itll lead to more trouble if you have to discharge it aim to kill.
I didn't say he didn't have any head injurys I said that his injurys were consistant with being "bashed repeatedly" against the ground...
There are plently of sources stating witnesses have changed their statements due to pressure.
To be honest theres no point arguing really :/ oh well.
I agree with Heidi... if he hadn't had a gun, it would have been a scuffle, and it's highly likely both men would have escaped with minor injuries. The Stand Your Ground law also complicates matters; in the UK even 'self defence' isn't a lot of good as an excuse in court.
It doesn't matter where you come from; it matters where you go.
No-one gets remembered for the things they didn't do.
We won't all be here this time next year,
so while you can take a picture of us.
We're definitely going to hell,
but we'll have all the best stories to tell.
I'm just glad we don't have loose cannons wandering round armed with guns in the UK. If Zimmerman hadn't of had a gun, then one or both of them would be up on assault charges and that's all.
Oh we do...
In the town next to where I live there has been at least 17 gun related incidents this year (including murders)
Thats in a town of 255k people.
I'm just glad we don't have loose cannons wandering round armed with guns in the UK. If Zimmerman hadn't of had a gun, then one or both of them would be up on assault charges and that's all.
Stats show we have highest crime in US where we have the most gum laws. In fact, lots of people think its racist that blacks in cities cant legally own guns to protect themselves from all the criminals. Blacks make up less that 13% of population but account for 49% of all homicides. Most victims are black and are shot by other blacks. In Chicago last week 25 people - mostly black - got shot despite strict gun laws. The real solution to the problem would be to let people have guns for protection. Stats shoiw over and over that an increase in gun ownership lowers crime. While UK has low gun killing stats they have the highest violent crime rate compared to US and Europe
People should also know NBC saw 3 people fired for intentionally altering the original Martin recording - a recoding that started this whole media fiasco.
When NBC first played the emergency recording of Zimmerman to police they had Zimmerman saying:
""This guy looks like he's up to no good. He looks black."
Ater Martin said "This guy looks like he's up to no good" NBC edited out the police asking Zimmerman to describe the person's appearance. That is when Zimmerman said "He looks black".
Intentionally altering a tape that way to intentionally provoke people is very wicked.
