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-   -   everything keeps going wrong. (https://www.recoveryourlife.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256314)

Auror. 03-10-2019 04:13 PM

They came to our apartment and helped take my dog out and get her doggie medicine and breakfast. We gave them tiny pumpkins. They said to hide.

one_step_closer 03-10-2019 04:18 PM

Is hiding something that would be helpful right now?

Auror. 03-10-2019 04:21 PM

I want to remove the internal organs or be dead but they said to hide instead. Today is supposed to be a day to see our therapist human but she is gone. They said not to remove the internal organs and to just hide.

one_step_closer 03-10-2019 04:26 PM

That sounds distressing, and no wonder things are hard if this would have been a day where you saw your therapist. These days will get easier. Have you been hiding? Is there something else safe that might be more useful?

Auror. 03-10-2019 04:30 PM

Yes when they left we locked the door and came back to hiding. I want to remove the organs so that the death stops. They said only a medical human can.

one_step_closer 03-10-2019 04:32 PM

I think it would be pretty impossible to remove your own internal organs and I'm not sure what you mean about it stopping death but I don't think that would stop death. There's a lot of hard stuff going on for you right now, can you take care of yourself rather than focusing on destroying yourself?

Auror. 03-10-2019 05:37 PM

There is a proper medical term for removing them I just cannot remember it. It sounded like hysteria. It would make it stop. Nothing is okay.

Eska 03-10-2019 05:58 PM

Camden, was the word hysterectomy? If so then that is definitely something that would need to be done by a medical person. It wouldn't be possible for you to do that yourself.

Hiding definitely sounds like a better plan.

Auror. 03-10-2019 06:13 PM

OH yes that was it. I knew it was spelled funny. We are still hiding but it is not going away.

one_step_closer 03-10-2019 07:12 PM

Yeah. Was going to say you can't do that yourself, but what (safe) things could you do that might help even a tiny bit?

What is 'it' that you're struggling with, other than not wanting certain internal organs? What are the feelings? Maybe you need to be doing something distracting, if you're just hiding and dwelling on everything. I know it's easier said than done though.

Auror. 03-10-2019 08:19 PM

It hurts. I can feel it occurring. Coming out from hiding would mean a guaranteed meltdown. My ears hurt as is. We hide in the quietest and darkest room we have. There's no way putting on a binder to go outside is possible. The organs should not exist and I want out of this body.

Auror. 05-10-2019 12:07 AM

Our case manager human says we have to meet a new therapist human on Monday. It does not sound negotiable. I am not okay with any of this. They said they will be there and my dog can come. I asked them what happens if it is awful or if I panic or have a meltdown or lose time and they said it will be okay. This does not sound okay at all. I do not want to meet a strange human and I do not want to lose time in front of a strange human.

The awful body thing is still occurring. I managed to go to school today because the professor I volunteer for wanted to include me in his lab meeting. I got a nice latte on the way there and survived the meeting even though it was mostly just them explaining stuff to me which I feel bad about. The lab work itself was okay because I was alone.

I went to a bookstore after to buy The Secret Commonwealth and ended up crying in the bookstore because it was so loud and there were so many humans. I got the book though. I hope it is nice. I also have to take care of the horses all weekend. I am trying not to be dead and I am aware that some not awful things occurred but body things are still a disaster and humaning is still not going well and I do not want to meet a new human on a day that is a day we normally would see our old therapist human.

Pi.R^2 05-10-2019 05:02 PM

If it's the awful body thing I think it is, it will be over soon. That doesn't make it better right now but remember it is not forever.

I hope you do enjoy your new book.

With regards to meeting a new therapist; I agree that it would be preferable to be seeing the old one, but given that that isn't an option perhaps a new one is better than no one? If they make things worse you don't have to see them but there's a good chance that they will be able to help.

Auror. 06-10-2019 08:12 PM

Yes it thankfully seems to have stopped!!!

Our friend L came to visit for a night. They just left. They seem to think we need to meet the new human. Still do not want to and not okay with it. I want to keep our case manager human but apparently to do that we have to have a new therapist human. Which seems dumb.

one_step_closer 07-10-2019 04:17 PM

Did you meet with the new therapist? New supportive relationships can be scary but maybe it will develop into a really positive relationship.

Pi.R^2 07-10-2019 10:45 PM

I'm glad you had a friend to stay and I hope you had a nice time :)

I would echo Lindsay's question and thoughts!

Auror. 08-10-2019 02:38 AM

Unsure. Unsure unsure unsure unsure unsure. I think I might have lost time. Something feels wrong and if I did lose time what if something awful occurred? It was supposed to be a day to see our therapist human but she is gone. Something feels wrong and I think I need to overdose or be dead.

one_step_closer 08-10-2019 10:20 AM

‘Something’ feeling wrong and ‘thinking’ you need to overdose or be dead don’t sound like sure needs. I know it’s hard when things feel wrong in any way but overdosing or killing yourself is an extreme way to try and ease things. Is there someone you can ask about what happened yesterday?

Auror. 08-10-2019 02:07 PM

Unsure who there would be to ask. Lied to work again about being sick. Fml

Auror. 08-10-2019 03:53 PM

Case manager human says today is Tuesday and we saw them yesterday and they think I lost time. They think maybe something feels wrong because we did not see our therapist human yesterday and normally we do.

Auror. 08-10-2019 11:36 PM

they have changed their rules and they want to send strange humans to our apartment. none of which is okay. wtf.

one_step_closer 10-10-2019 03:52 PM

What's happening? I'm sorry things are still so distressing for you.

Auror. 10-10-2019 04:05 PM

Apparently our case manager human says a strange human did come to our apartment Tuesday night but since we did not notice and also we do not open our door for strange humans even if we had noticed it did not matter.

Our case manager human came over unannounced yesterday with more strange humans. We let our case manager human in but not the strange humans. They said it was something called mobile crisis. Our case manager human wanted to see the pills I would overdose with and then they showed the strange humans and I guess they sent them away. They made a new rule that I have to tell them what and how many I would take if I want to overdose. They said they are not mad and they are not kicking us out. Also they said they are not going to send more strange humans here.

I keep not going to work. My mom is going to kill me and the human I work for may kill me and I am not getting paid and today is supposed to be a day to see our therapist human but she is still gone and I have cried multiple times and our case manager human said to just hide but I want to be dead. It just feels like hiding is putting off something unavoidable and unstoppable.

nonperson 10-10-2019 04:14 PM

What was it like when your old therapist was a stranger? How did you get through that?

Auror. 10-10-2019 04:19 PM

I emailed her and threw all the worst things at her at once. She did not get mad and she said she would be our therapist human. Then just kept emailing her so that she understood that in person things were hard but still knew what was going on and then we saw her two times a week.

nonperson 10-10-2019 04:26 PM

The point I'm trying to make is that she was still a stranger at first. Can you do something similar to that again with a new therapist?

Auror. 10-10-2019 04:29 PM

No. The new therapist human is not optional and I have no idea who they are or how to contact them except through our case manager human. Our old therapist human had online profiles and information and a bunch of humans referred me to her so I had information up front. The new therapist human is just someone else where our old therapist human and where the case manager human works.

nonperson 10-10-2019 04:42 PM

Can you ask your case manager for as much information on the new therapist as possible?

one_step_closer 10-10-2019 04:43 PM

It sounds like you need more advice than just to be told to hide.

Could you meet the new therapist with your case manager?

Auror. 10-10-2019 05:29 PM

Our case manager has mentioned something about wanting us to meet the new therapist human because it was not optional. Unsure if or when that is meant to be. I think it was meant to be this week but I guess it did not occur. I have two cards from them with multiple dates and times and places so I am really confused. I want to try not to bother them as much because of how much they have had to deal with us lately with the randomly turning up here and things so I feel really guilty asking more things and more of their time. I might wait until next week and see if either they say something or I guess maybe ask then. We have already bothered them a lot this week.

one_step_closer 10-10-2019 05:47 PM

Will you be ok to wait until next week to ask? If you are allowed to contact them it's definitely ok to do so asap.

nonperson 10-10-2019 05:53 PM

Better to get answers to your questions sooner, rather than waiting and agonising over it for days! It is definitely ok to ask. That's what they're there for.

Auror. 10-10-2019 08:17 PM

I mean their original rule was not to contact them more than two times in a week and this week has been WAY more than that. And it seems like they cannot really say anything other than not to be dead and just hide. Which not saying I do not appreciate them or their support just like. That is not anything new and I feel guilty for taking so much of their time.

one_step_closer 11-10-2019 01:28 PM

Did they change the rule so that you're now allowed more contact? I think if you need contact and it would help then it shouldn't be refused. I understand feeling guilty though. Would you feel able to say that you need something more than to be told not to be dead and to hide instead?

Auror. 11-10-2019 04:09 PM

I am unsure about the rule. They did not say if they changed it or not.

I think the problem is that they are not a therapist human, so saying things other than not to be dead or hide might be therapist human things. I could be wrong. I am not trying to be ungrateful. I really do appreciate them being so nice to us and trying to help.

I would like our therapist human to come back now and help. Things are not okay.

one_step_closer 11-10-2019 04:29 PM

It's a shame that your therapist isn't there for you now. I hope you can meet with the new therapist and build up a positive relationship.

Auror. 12-10-2019 08:22 PM

Unsure when that is meant to occur. Case manager human emailed us and said the next time we see them is the 22nd. They have not mentioned anything about a new therapist human. The 22nd is far away.

They said they are not mad and that if they ask strange or "challenging" questions it is because they want us to be safe. Potentially wording that wrong.

They also apparently talked to L on the phone. I dislike being talked about. I am not mad. I just dislike being talked about.

Thoughts and urges to self harm or overdose to at least put off being dead are not going away. Being dead feels like the only option. I was going to self harm last night but then my dog came in the bathroom with me and refused to leave. Nothing is okay.

Greyscale 12-10-2019 09:20 PM

Like I've said, I think it's really important to ask your case manager about when you're meeting with the therapist. They want to support you and I don't think they would mind you asking that - it's better you ask than you miss an appointment.

And yes, your case manager did talk to me, but remember they did ask you first and you asked me if that was okay with me first and then gave them my contact info, so it also was something you agreed to and all of us were aware of. If you remember, I also explained what we talked about which is that they wanted to get an idea of what's going on for you lately, and ideas of what might be useful since they haven't worked with you enough to be able to read between the lines and you can say things kind of cryptically. They spoke to me because they want to make sure that they're understanding you and doing the best they can for you, obviously with the limitations of being a case manager not therapist.

They really want to help, and I think asking them for what you need, whether that's to know when you're meant to meet with the therapist or whether that's needing to sort out additional support before the 22nd, would be a really good idea. They want to help, if you're willing to let them. I know trying new things and meeting new people and trying to trust people is hard, but I truly believe it will be worth the initial discomfort. I think your case manager thinks that too. You just have to be willing to try to work with your case manager and try to work with the new therapist even though it's really hard and you would prefer your last therapist of that were an option. Since it's not, and she's gone, the next step is trying with the new therapist.

Auror. 12-10-2019 10:29 PM

Hello yes ^^ is L and they are awesome if not obvious.

Pi.R^2 13-10-2019 04:28 PM

I agree with everything L has said. I get that it's uncomfortable having people talking about you, but it sounds like you did agree to that and that everyone involved was just desperately trying to share information in order for you to get the right help.

How are you today and what are your plans this week?

Aardbei 13-10-2019 05:55 PM

I don't have anything helpful to say but I am thinking of you.

Auror. 13-10-2019 08:07 PM

Well so nobody actually asked me if I was okay with it. They asked for L's number, L said it was okay to give them their number, so I did. That does not make it optional and that did not involve asking if I was okay with it. I am not at all mad and I already told L this. I trust L and I do not mind them telling the case manager human things. I just dislike being talked about.

I was thirty minutes late for my horse job this morning. There was a dog running loose down the street and I stopped and they came to me and jumped in my car and then we drove around until we found the dog's human because their tags did not list any information other than "for more info about me google this number." The human said the dog's name was Piper and I am really glad that Piper was able to go home but why did nobody else stop? Why did nobody else see Piper running alone down the sidewalk and stop? I really hope I do not get in trouble for having been late or have the human I work for get mad.

Unsure about this week. I honestly do not see how I am not going to be dead. Urges and thoughts are not going away. There are multiple other things occurring that I have no idea how to handle. I understand that humans are nice and that they care and that there are rules but that does not make things go away or be okay.

Greyscale 13-10-2019 08:43 PM

Do you see why we both interpreted the sequence of events as you being okay with it though? They asked if they could, you asked me if I was okay with it, I said yes, and you gave them my info. Could you see why your doing that would make it seem like you were okay with that, vs if you had said 'actually wait, I'm not okay with this and I have some questions' or just saying no? I think both your case manager and I would have been fine with you saying no or asking questions, but you not saying no or asking questions and just giving them my information and voicing no concerns made it come across as you being fine with it. Does that make sense? It's okay to say no and ask for what you need!

I hope this week goes better and I really hope you're able to ask your case manager for appointment info and more support if you need it.

Auror. 14-10-2019 03:16 AM

They said "Would you give me L's phone number so I could try to talk to them"
I showed you what they said. You said "I mean you can give it to them? Did they say why?"
Then I did.

That definitely does not involve asking me if I am okay with it. It did not seem optional at all. I really am not mad. I just do not understand why you keep saying I somehow could have said no (not that I would have said no) when it was not stated as optional. If either of you had asked if I was okay with it and I said yes that would be different. That never occurred. I am not not okay with it. I just dislike being talked about. I am unsure how to explain the difference.

I emailed them and told them you said to ask about a new therapist human but given they said the 22nd that is what we are going with and I do not want them to kick us out for breaking rules or make them mad.

Greyscale 14-10-2019 04:55 AM

No I see why you feel that way, I'm just trying to explain why, to people other than you, it's implied that if it's something you aren't okay with you can say no or voice concerns. I'm sorry it sounds like you weren't okay with it. I don't think it was anyone's goal to do something you weren't okay with and I'm sorry that's what happened. To explain more in depth, so you can use this info in the future, the social cues you gave (not saying no to your case manager and in fact going along with it when they asked and then asking me if I was okay with it and then giving my info to them) are all social cues that would indicate being okay with it. Social cues that would indicate not being okay with it, and things to use in the future if you are not okay with something, might be things like, if they ask you 'would you give me info to speak to xyz person' you could say something like 'no' or 'can I have some more information about why you want to speak to xyz person' or 'yes but only about these specific things' or 'okay but I want to know specifically what you talk about after' etc.

In a typical conversational pattern it's actually expected to speak up if you don't want to do what someone's asking, not just do everything that indicates it's actually okay when it isn't. You're in voluntary treatment with your case manager, and aside from the agreements you've made with them, everything is up to you and you can and should ALWAYS speak up if you aren't okay with something. It might turn out that it's not optional, but the vast majority of things in voluntary treatment are options, you just have to speak up. It sounds like it would be clearer and easier for you if people stopped and asked at every step, and you can ask folks to do that, too. It's just that it's kind of conversational shorthand that if you don't say no and go along with what is being asked, people will read that as you being okay with it.

I'm not saying you're wrong, because I can see where the confusion happened and you aren't wrong, it's just I think that there's some gaps in knowing that you're totally able to say no even if it's not asked. I'm pretty sure this is something we actually discussed a few months ago when your case manager asked you something else, that you can say no when someone asks you something, and I explained multiple examples of times that I personally have done so and how people expect that. I apologise that it wasn't clear enough to you, and that's why I'm trying to explain why your case manager and I both understood it as being okay when it sounds like that's not what you meant to be communicating, so you know how to make clear your wishes if it ever comes up again (which I doubt it will).

I'm continuing to try to explain this because I want to make sure you understand your rights (being able to say no unless you are told it's not optional) and responsibilities (speaking up for your needs and wants) when it comes to treatment so you can best advocate for yourself and your needs. The best way to get what you need is to make sure that you're actually communicating what you want people to know, even if they aren't asking constantly. Unfortunately in this situation it sounds like the way we understood what you were communicating is not what you meant to be communicating, and I want you to have the skills and knowledge to make sure you feel able to advocate for yourself in the future if you don't want something.

I hope they are able to clarify about the therapist for you. I know it's kind of confusing since you have two different cards with different dates and times on them, and that's why I think clarifying was a good idea. It's totally possible it is the 22nd but given you have another card with other dates, and you aren't sure what those dates are, it's definitely best to make sure because missing appointments would be bad.

Auror. 14-10-2019 03:58 PM

Generally any time treatment providers say things are optional and I say no is when I get kicked out. I really do not want them to kick us out. They are nice and you are nice and we trust both of you so it is okay that you talked I just dislike being talked about.


Today is supposed to be a day to see our therapist human and she is still gone. I want to be dead now but I do not know if I can deal with being dead in this body. Unsure what to do. My compromise did not help with putting it off.

one_step_closer 14-10-2019 04:40 PM

How did you manage last Monday? Mondays will be hard for a while but I think they will get easier.

Auror. 14-10-2019 04:43 PM

I don't remember. That was the day I lost time but our case manager human said we saw them.

one_step_closer 14-10-2019 04:46 PM

What safe options do you have for trying to cope with today?

Auror. 14-10-2019 04:50 PM

Unsure. We have been hiding but my compromise did not work and our case manager human has not replied to the other emails so it does not seem like we should bother them and send another email.


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